Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed

[Monolith]

Evergreen Line by Grant Mattice, on Flickr Taken on October 23, 2015


Lafarge/Douglas Station by Grant Mattice, on Flickr Taken on October 23, 2015


Lincoln Station by Grant Mattice, on Flickr Taken on October 23, 2015

[Olden Retreiver]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Is it possible to run a TBM 24/7 or does it need some downtime? Regardless I doubt they could afford to pay people to be working that much.

It stretches the limits of credulity to think they can afford to let a machine like that sit idle. Especially on a project thr is behind schedule and is presumably paying contract penalties for the delay. There has to be some reason other than simply staffing.

[Olden Retreiver]

Originally Posted by nname

As I said the last time, THIS PROJECT IS NOT BEING MANAGED BY TRANSLINK!!!!. It is fully managed by BC MoT. TransLink paid for the cost and will operate the line in the future, and that's it.

I just get sick and tired of people blaming everything that possibly goes wrong in this world on them...

And how to you know the TBM not moving huh? Do you actually see that it stopped somewhere? At the current location, the soil must travel 1.5km to reach the portal. Can't they just stop the flow somewhere in the middle of the tunnel and dump them out in batches, rather than having the need of truck lining up all days, 7 days a week?

Simple question. Should have a simple answer. No, they cannot stash cuttings inside the tunnel and bring it out the conveyor in batches. From this, one can see that any maintenance or repair on the 1.5 km conveyor belt would force a halt of production at the TBM face. It is a sort of bottleneck or weak link.

[Jimbo604]

Originally Posted by Olden Retreiver

It stretches the limits of credulity to think they can afford to let a machine like that sit idle. Especially on a project thr is behind schedule and is presumably paying contract penalties for the delay. There has to be some reason other than simply staffing.

They are running today: dump trucks spotted on webcam

There is a new drill position map. It is deliciously close to the next (and last) maintenance spot at Robinson Street,

Drill position map - Oct 26

[Sheba]

Oh no, the TBM is going to stop - panic will ensue!

[WarrenC12]

They just got out of "unscheduled" maintenance, are they still planning to do "scheduled" maintenance?

Good point about the conveyor.. that would suck.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

Trains from Waterfront will be exclusively EXPO line trains.

Once they arrive at New West - Columbia, most will continue to King George as normal on the Expo mainline.

However, 1/3 or 1/4 of the Expo trains leaving Columbia will go to Lougheed and Production via Braid (acting like a branch line) to become a 'shuttle' between the Expo mainline and the Millennium mainline.


Millennium trains will run between VCC and Lougheed (as they do today) and then continue on the new evergreen extension to Douglas/Lafarge. They will be labelled as Millennium trains for the entire trip.

There isn't going to be an 'evergreen train', or an 'evergreen line'
There won't be an 'evergreen train' running on the expo mainline

Do we know what kind of wait times and stopping patterns will exist? For example, going from Brentwood to Sapperton. I assume the easiest place to transfer would be production way as it's not as busy as Lougheed and there are only two platforms. Will it just be a matter of getting off and then waiting for the next train?

I assume it won't be a cross-platform transfer.

How will transfers both ways work?

[st7860]

http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2015/10/new-skytrain-trains-vancouver-photos/
"The first cars from TransLink’s $90.7-million order of Bombardier Innovia Metro 300 trains for the SkyTrain system have begun to arrive at the Edmonds Operations and Maintenance Centre in Burnaby.

A total of seven trains, totalling 28 cars, were ordered in 2012 to expand the fleet’s capacity ahead of the fall 2016 opening of the Evergreen extension of the Millennium Line.

According to TransLink, the cars were built on the East Coast, with four trains built at the Bombardier plant in Kingston, Ontario and the remaining six trains at another plant in Plattsburgh, New York. All of the cars are being shipped across the continent on flatbed trucks.

Upon arrival, the cars will be assembled into four-car trains with the addition of accordion-style gangways to connect the cars, allowing passengers to walk from one end of the train to another while also providing a greater capacity.

But at this time, there is no estimated date for when the first trains could go into service as rigorous testing needs to be completed.

“Once assembled, these trains need to complete a comprehensive testing program before being placed into service,” Cheryl Ziola, TransLink media relations manager, told Vancity Buzz. “This typically takes several months. When testing is done, we can confirm when trains will be in service.”

The new trains also offer substantial aesthetic and experiential design improvements to SkyTrain’s older train models. These new trains will be much more spacious with more larger open spaces available for bikes, strollers and wheelchairs, and the interior will be more brightly lit due to an improved LED lighting system.

But the most noticeable design improvement that passengers will likely notice will be the sizeable windows. Windows on the sides of the trains will extend down to waist height while the windows at the front of the trains will be full width, similar to the Canada Line’s cars.

The trains also boast a lightweight, longer lasting battery system that is expected to last 25 years. In comparison, the batteries on the existing fleet last 10 years.

TransLink was unable to comment on the overall capacity of the vehicles, but the new trains will likely be able to hold nearly 700 passengers per train given the increased floor space from the gangways of the four-car articulated configuration and the improvement in interior space usage.

In contrast, a four-car Mark II train holds anywhere between 520 to 580 passengers per train, depending on the year of purchase, while a four-car Mark I train can pack in 480 passengers per train.

The Canada Line’s two-car trains built by South Korea’s Hyundai can only accommodate 334 passengers per train.

Meanwhile, the original 114 SkyTrain cars, the Mark I cars, are currently being refurbished at a cost of $37.9 million to extend their operational life by 15 years. The cars have already already exceeded their operational lifespan of 25 years.

The refit includes top-down upgrades to the electrical system, entry doors and interior passenger comfort designs. The train exteriors are also being repainted with TransLink’s new black, grey, blue and yellow livery."

[WarrenC12]

Why aren't these being shipped in batches on trains? Seems crazy to me.

[Express691]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Why aren't these being shipped in batches on trains? Seems crazy to me.

According to the reddit post, some have said that there was a length / width restriction that prevented them from being shipped by rail. You should check it out (its a page back)

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

How will transfers both ways work?

@ Production Way it'll just be like transferring trains at Bridgeport Station.

The question is whether the Expo Line train that is reversing will:
(a) switch tracks west of Lougheed Station (and "wrong rail to Production Way), or
(b) more likely, disgorge passengers and continue to the switch east of Lake City, reverse, and pick up passengers on the eastbound platform of Production Way (like how the short-turn trains at Broadway-Commercial use the switch closer to Nanaimo Station to reverse.

[dpogue]

Originally Posted by officedweller

@ Production Way it'll just be like transferring trains at Bridgeport Station.

The question is whether the Expo Line train that is reversing will:
(a) switch tracks west of Lougheed Station (and "wrong rail to Production Way), or
(b) more likely, disgorge passengers and continue to the switch east of Lake City, reverse, and pick up passengers on the eastbound platform of Production Way (like how the short-turn trains at Broadway-Commercial use the switch closer to Nanaimo Station to reverse.

I can understand the political reasons for going to Production Way, but ugh this is not how it was intended to work

The idea of running the lines separate was to avoid needing to coordinate the timing of trains merging across 3 parts of the system. If there was a delay on the Expo line, the Millennium line would be able to keep running because it was entirely separate.
Now they're causing themselves all the disadvantages of interlining trains, without any real benefit (like running through service all the way to VCC-Clark).

The switches at Lougheed allow trains to move across each other and turn back with minimal delays. The switches at Lake City require blocking trains in both directions to reserve switches, then reversing direction, and realigning switches.

It might sound great for students, but this is going to backfire horribly as soon as there's an issue anywhere in the system, and people are going to be screaming about TransLink incompetence again

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by dpogue

I can understand the political reasons for going to Production Way, but ugh this is not how it was intended to work

The idea of running the lines separate was to avoid needing to coordinate the timing of trains merging across 3 parts of the system. If there was a delay on the Expo line, the Millennium line would be able to keep running because it was entirely separate.
Now they're causing themselves all the disadvantages of interlining trains, without any real benefit (like running through service all the way to VCC-Clark).

The switches at Lougheed allow trains to move across each other and turn back with minimal delays. The switches at Lake City require blocking trains in both directions to reserve switches, then reversing direction, and realigning switches.

It might sound great for students, but this is going to backfire horribly as soon as there's an issue anywhere in the system, and people are going to be screaming about TransLink incompetence again

At the end of the day, they should have not made Production the main SFU loading point to begin with. It should have stayed at Lougheed, which was the original transfer point prior to the Millenium Line.

But yes, political reasons are the only reason why its at Production since Glen Clark wanted the no where to no where Millenium Line to have some ridership. Students coming from PoMo and North Coquitlam (97 B Line and other local buses) were forced to transfer from Lougheed to Production, a mere one stop, just to say Millenium Line has all these new riders. Have the Evergreen Line built from the get go, no need to have this artificial ridership increase scheme.

Lougheed should be the transfer point for the students even today. Its good for the Skytrain system, its good for the Langley rapid bus that is coming, its good for the businesses at Lougheed Mall, and its easier to access for students living in all those high rises near the mall.

[xd_1771]

Actually, no.

I know we love taking sides and picking food fights on here but none of the above is even correct.

The decision to truncate the 145 at Production was made after the Glen Clark era, in 2002, by TransLink, as part of the Burnaby-New Westminster Area Transit Plan. This was a consultation-based plan that was done in basically the same way that the current Evergreen integration plan is being done now, and there was no political meddling by any sort of higher power for any reason as you suggest.

For anyone interested, you can read this report at (I found the link) below:
http://www.translink.ca/~/media/Document...20Transit%20Plan%20Summary%20Report.ashx

The basis for the 145's truncation to Production Way was to be its conversion to a B-Line service (and while it wasn't branded as one, this has been pretty much achieved in practice). The truncation was not done for ridership inflation purposes - it was done so that the frequency of the entire 145 route could be increased, just as is done for other routes today as a result of very limited resources. The change in fact helped accomodate an additional 5500 annual service hours to the overall route, despite the shortening, not a reduction that would be expected from just shortening the route.

Does it suck for people on the 555? Maybe a little more - and I'm a South of Fraser guy, I would sympathize with these people. But the fact is, the 145's shorter terminus at production way is the reason that it's running every, say, 3 minutes and not every 4 minutes at peak times. And that's critical for everyone who has used this route, today and over the past 13 years, witnessing and experiencing the line-ups at Production just to head up the hill to SFU. It means that riders who are taking the Millennium Line from points across the system (as in, longer than 1 stop) have room to get on board the 145 and are kept on transit rather than discouraged from using it. Tell me, why is this supposed to be a bad thing? Can we really say we're losing as a result of this decision?

Now stop your political embargo and complaining. No one was trying to artificially inflate the M-Line's ridership and while it fell short it wasn't even a "flop" by any means. The initial expectations were to have 75,000 boarding passengers by 2006. The line reached 70,000 in 2007. That's behind, but it's not far away and doesn't indicate a major failure of any sort.

Even the "SkyTrain to nowhere" nickname we're all familiar with is silly and senseless, having been given by a pessimistic writer who thought that the final 11 stations (after Sapperton and Braid) would never be opened, and who insisted that the Millennium Line's final price tag would be $4 billion (which was based on nothing in the actual article and made absolutely no sense - anyone wanting to keep track of the Millennium Line's debt costs/servicing progress can just look at the annually released statements from RTP 2000 which are available online by PDF!).

BTW as a final poke at the major holes in the above post, I would think that anyone wanting to travel from PoMo and North Coquitlam (97 B-Line and other local buses) would transfer at Como Lake to the #143 if they wanted to go to SFU on a school day.

(Another great read, by the way: this write-up from the Millennium Line's project director).

[WarrenC12]

Great background, thanks. Good to know the "white elephant" of the M-Line was still way closer to projections than the new PMB.

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Great background, thanks. Good to know the "white elephant" of the M-Line was still way closer to projections than the new PMB.

And the new Port Mann Bridge is falling more than $24 million short in revenue versus the project's business case forecast, which itself assumed that the bridge would fall $80+ million short of its debt servicing costs at this stage of life. Over time this would fall as toll revenue increased through additional use of the bridge and hikes to the toll rate itself. So, the $24 million shortfall from the projected revenue and the structural $80 million shortfall from the debt-servicing cost of the bridge mean that it is currently adding $100+ million a year to its debt.

http://www.news1130.com/2015/02/19/port-...-more-than-20-million-below-projections/

Interesting to read the Millennium Line's project director's presentation/report that xd_1771 shared. Something that jumped out to me was the separate contract for the VCC section of Millennium Line track and the storage area; the guideway always seems to me to be a bit different in construction than the rest of the system, and obviously different from the standardized guideway that forms most of the line. Not a huge revelation, just interested that it was a separate contract and, thus, a different set of design solutions.

Also interesting was the comment that the design-build contract for the Millennium Line tunnel in New Westminster was considered the most successful of the project.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by dpogue

The idea of running the lines separate was to avoid needing to coordinate the timing of trains merging across 3 parts of the system. If there was a delay on the Expo line, the Millennium line would be able to keep running because it was entirely separate.
Now they're causing themselves all the disadvantages of interlining trains, without any real benefit (like running through service all the way to VCC-Clark).

You're woefully underestimating the performance of Seltrac. This is a computer controlled automated system. If you want to look at the performance characteristics of doing so, look no further than switch problems at Columbia.

If this were a conventional light rail or subway system with human drivers, the trains would still be stuck if there is a switch problem, since the driver has to actually "throw the switch" and if they make an error and over run the switch, they can't recover from it, especially if another train is coming up behind them.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

So, the $24 million shortfall from the projected revenue and the structural $80 million shortfall from the debt-servicing cost of the bridge mean that it is currently adding $100+ million a year to its debt.

We need to invest in the Broadway rapid transit line so that its operational surpluses can pay for all these road and bridge projects the Provincial government is so keen on building.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

We need to invest in the Broadway rapid transit line so that its operational surpluses can pay for all these road and bridge projects the Provincial government is so keen on building.

Surrey would rather that money go into their money-losing surface light rail if both projects go ahead as-is.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

(Another great read, by the way: this write-up from the Millennium Line's project director).

Thanks for posting.

Gotta love the map with all 3 phases of the Millennium Line (incl. Woodlands Station).
(Note the absence of Cameron Station & Port Moody West Station)

Hard to read, but I think the legend says:

Millennium Line (21 km)
Completion: Late 2002
Budget: $1.167 billion)
(100 per cent funded by the Province)

Port Moody - Coquitlam (11km)
Completion: 2005
Cost Estimate: 730 million
(TransLink: $450 million, Province $280 million)

Vancouver West Extension (4 km)
Cost Estimate to be determined
(TransLink: 33 per cent, Province 67 percent)

Note: TransLink is contributing only $400 million to the current Evergreen Line.

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

Interesting to read the Millennium Line's project director's presentation/report that xd_1771 shared. Something that jumped out to me was the separate contract for the VCC section of Millennium Line track and the storage area; the guideway always seems to me to be a bit different in construction than the rest of the system, and obviously different from the standardized guideway that forms most of the line. Not a huge revelation, just interested that it was a separate contract and, thus, a different set of design solutions.

Also interesting was the comment that the design-build contract for the Millennium Line tunnel in New Westminster was considered the most successful of the project.

The VCC section was delayed due to right-of-way negotiations with BNSF. The article mentions on page 22 that as of 2002, that section was "on hold".