Public Disorder & the Decline of Vancouver's Livability

[SpongeG]

I noticed Nike on Robson street has installed heavy metal shutters for the windows. Salvatore Ferragamo still has wood on two of their windows, looks very rundown compared to how it used to look. Gastown was pretty quiet, one of the low-budget hotels on water street had a lot of street people hanging outside and coming and going. Not too many boarded up windows but a few.

Some guy started to talk or harass me and my bf as we waited for the skytrain at Waterfront platform, he kept going on how we were disrespecting him by not listening to him and he followed us around the platform which was packed and followed us onto the train and we moved and he followed us, all the time talking and talking, he had moved onto talking about serial killers, I wasn't afraid or anything just wanted to have a nice peaceful evening, anyway he wouldn't shut up so I pushed the security button, as soon as I did that he ranted about something and shut up and got off the train as soon as he could at the next stop, the security came I said he was harassing us so he went to go see what the guy was doing, he just went straight off after the guy, the train itself was packed, trains were very slow last night, long times between trains. He said he had been in the mental ward numerous times and had nearly died numerous times, he had something wrong with his arm, it was swollen badly and in a sling, so if it came to it at least I knew what could physically incapacitate him if needed.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I wouldn't think that stuff like public safety, law and order and especially not mental health and drug programs necessarily dovetail with what we'd normally consider a pro-business electoral agenda, which would normally involve stuff like lower taxes, taxpayer-funded aesthetic improvements to the public realm, etc.

I mean they might in some cases, but it's not an automatic.

In this case of local Vancouver politics, which I am far more familiar with, I think it is.

Not to downplay that this stuff is happening, but that's part of the reason there are so many outspoken about it, from that side of the aisle.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

I noticed Nike on Robson street has installed heavy metal shutters for the windows. Salvatore Ferragamo still has wood on two of their windows, looks very rundown compared to how it used to look. Gastown was pretty quiet, one of the low-budget hotels on water street had a lot of street people hanging outside and coming and going. Not too many boarded up windows but a few.

Some guy started to talk or harass me and my bf as we waited for the skytrain at Waterfront platform, he kept going on how we were disrespecting him by not listening to him and he followed us around the platform which was packed and followed us onto the train and we moved and he followed us, all the time talking and talking, he had moved onto talking about serial killers, I wasn't afraid or anything just wanted to have a nice peaceful evening, anyway he wouldn't shut up so I pushed the security button, as soon as I did that he ranted about something and shut up and got off the train as soon as he could at the next stop, the security came I said he was harassing us so he went to go see what the guy was doing, he just went straight off after the guy, the train itself was packed, trains were very slow last night, long times between trains. He said he had been in the mental ward numerous times and had nearly died numerous times, he had something wrong with his arm, it was swollen badly and in a sling, so if it came to it at least I knew what could physically incapacitate him if needed.

Typical drug addict in a state of "psychosis". The brain is getting fried and one sometimes blacks out and breaks a few bones in the process: nothing out of the ordinary. Next time press the yellow strip right away: not worth the stress and anxiety from being harassed or even threatened.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by rofina

To be honest, I wrote that from a rhetorical stand point.

I have been beating the drums to get action on the rapid deterioration since 2018. I have sparred with countless posters here who called me an alarmist for the past 4 years.

The refrain has been the same; alarmist. Population DT continues to grow. Things aren't bad. Show us the stats. Crime is down, and has been for 3 decades, Etc.

This has to date been largely echoed by our Civic leaders too with our Mayor as recently as January laughing and scoffing at any questions about Vancouver's rapidly growing safety concerns.

Further, I have made allegations based on my personal direct community involvement that crime is dramatically underreported. This too was decried as alarmism and not reality.
We now have countless articles, often with the Chief of Vancouver Police directly saying faith in the VPD has been lost and crime is underreported dramatically.

4 years later everything is transpiring as I thought it would to a tee. Its turning chaotic with random attacks on a rapid incline; machete attacks, stabbings, random needle attacks, etc.

This is not to say I'm prescient and uniquely gifted to see this, just the opposite, the sight and smell of this crisis has been right in front of our eyes, for really the better part of 10 years. But instead it was easier to call folks like myself alarmist.

This was the same experience off line, in real life. The will to act, to make firm changes in direction was impossible. I mean impossible. The machinery at work to maintain status quo is built up over decades. An industry, and entire ideology of "harm reduction."

Its intensely demoralizing to see this in reality. This is the least fun "I told you so ever." Lose/lose.

New York is having a lot of the same issues, some regular vloggers I watch have been talking about it in recent videos, one of them a lifelong New Yorker is fed up and is moving to Miami, he says the city is getting boarded up, people are left to do whatever they want and get away with it as they are just caught and released etc. Hate crimes have gone up, the other day 7 Asian women were randomly attacked.

• Video Link

[Vin]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Whipping up the electorate to vote for a more business friendly government in this year's municipal election.

Yup, keep downplaying it like Kennedy Stewart. Let's see what we will become down the road...


‘Worst I have ever seen it’: Vancouver business owner says city not taking crime seriously
https://globalnews.ca/news/8657208/vancouver-business-owner-city-crime/

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by rofina

To be honest, I wrote that from a rhetorical stand point.

I have been beating the drums to get action on the rapid deterioration since 2018. I have sparred with countless posters here who called me an alarmist for the past 4 years.

The refrain has been the same; alarmist. Population DT continues to grow. Things aren't bad. Show us the stats. Crime is down, and has been for 3 decades, Etc.

This has to date been largely echoed by our Civic leaders too with our Mayor as recently as January laughing and scoffing at any questions about Vancouver's rapidly growing safety concerns.

Further, I have made allegations based on my personal direct community involvement that crime is dramatically underreported. This too was decried as alarmism and not reality.
We now have countless articles, often with the Chief of Vancouver Police directly saying faith in the VPD has been lost and crime is underreported dramatically.

4 years later everything is transpiring as I thought it would to a tee. Its turning chaotic with random attacks on a rapid incline; machete attacks, stabbings, random needle attacks, etc.

This is not to say I'm prescient and uniquely gifted to see this, just the opposite, the sight and smell of this crisis has been right in front of our eyes, for really the better part of 10 years. But instead it was easier to call folks like myself alarmist.

This was the same experience off line, in real life. The will to act, to make firm changes in direction was impossible. I mean impossible. The machinery at work to maintain status quo is built up over decades. An industry, and entire ideology of "harm reduction."

Its intensely demoralizing to see this in reality. This is the least fun "I told you so ever." Lose/lose.

We are in agreement on this.

I don't know of many cities that aren't vulnerable to this type of paralysis in some way - either they're already in the throes of the problem (like Vancouver or many US cities), or they would be very quickly just as soon as the problems started to surface, because no one would act to do anything (the case for most Canadian cities right now).

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Whipping up the electorate to vote for a more business friendly government in this year's municipal election.

As per the quote above, it's hard to imagine a less "business friendly" administration than one which appoints people to a commission that comes up with stuff like "We are asking Council to not succumb to a narrow definition of public safety that prioritizes the wealthy and business interests over those most struggling". In other words some crackhead smashing windows and robbing businesses is more important than the people and businesses that pay the city taxes.

I'm sure that small businessman with the hardware store on Davie is happy to be characterized as some corporate fat cat.

[djmk]

Originally Posted by rofina

This sums everything anyone needs to know about the issues we face;



I have been saying this for literally years, the majority of issues are likely confined to probably as little as 50 people. They just cause an insanely disproportionate amount of crime and damage since their actions are completely repercussion free.

The Mental health act is here:

https://www.bclaws.gov.bc.ca/civix/document/id/complete/statreg/00_96288_01#section22

Section 22 is about "involuntary admissions". Part of the problem is that it is really hard to force medical help on people that don't want it.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by djmk

The Mental health act is here:

https://www.bclaws.gov.bc.ca/civix/document/id/complete/statreg/00_96288_01#section22

Section 22 is about "involuntary admissions". Part of the problem is that it is really hard to force medical help on people that don't want it.

So lets make it easier.

Laws are ink on paper, all it takes to change them is the will to act.

I know there are reasons why nothing is done but they are arbitrary and self imposed.

The damage done to people is real and often permanent.

There is nothing "harm reducing" or "compassionate" about letting people rot in the streets until they have complete mental collapse and threaten entire neighborhoods for months on end.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by rofina

So lets make it easier.

Laws are ink on paper, all it takes to change them is the will to act.

I know there are reasons why nothing is done but they are arbitrary and self imposed.

The damage done to people is real and often permanent.

There is nothing "harm reducing" or "compassionate" about letting people rot in the streets until they have complete mental collapse and threaten entire neighborhoods for months on end.

Lots of charter rights issues around the issue so it might not be that simple. They don't even like the current system.

https://clasbc.net/bc-governments-quest-...-mental-health-act-continues-at-the-scc/

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

I noticed Nike on Robson street has installed heavy metal shutters for the windows.

All stores should do that - then maybe the City would get the message.
Function over form.

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

Some guy started to talk or harass me and my bf as we waited for the skytrain at Waterfront platform, he kept going on how we were disrespecting him by not listening to him and he followed us around the platform which was packed and followed us onto the train and we moved and he followed us, all the time talking and talking, he had moved onto talking about serial killers, I wasn't afraid or anything just wanted to have a nice peaceful evening, anyway he wouldn't shut up so I pushed the security button, as soon as I did that he ranted about something and shut up and got off the train as soon as he could at the next stop, the security came I said he was harassing us so he went to go see what the guy was doing, he just went straight off after the guy, the train itself was packed, trains were very slow last night, long times between trains. He said he had been in the mental ward numerous times and had nearly died numerous times, he had something wrong with his arm, it was swollen badly and in a sling, so if it came to it at least I knew what could physically incapacitate him if needed.

I am glad you two are okay. One needs to be really careful with these crazies, as most of them carry a weapon of sorts. You don't want to end up being stabbed by one of these fry-brains.

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Meanwhile in Downtown Seattle

Oh wow. I knew Seattle has been swirling down the toilet for many years but that is really bad for what is the very heart of their Downtown. One of my friends was in Seattle last week and he said it was unrecognisable from only few years ago. Just like what our Downtown has become.

Imagine having paid multiple million dollars for a condo in Downtown only to find out it's too dangerous to go out after dark...

[theKB]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Oh wow. I knew Seattle has been swirling down the toilet for many years but that is really bad for what is the very heart of their Downtown. One of my friends was in Seattle last week and he said it was unrecognisable from only few years ago. Just like what our Downtown has become.

Imagine having paid multiple million dollars for a condo in Downtown only to find out it's too dangerous to go out after dark...

Stayed a few days in Seattle last week, the downtown core is a shadow of itself and the area they refer to in the video is quite interesting to walk through. They have tent city issues with small ones all over the core and near the highways. That said, the area around the amazon/tech campuses is pristine and you can be assured that amazon and the other businesses are footing the bill for keeping it clean and orderly. It is a fantastic area overall. The pike place market area borders on the problem area but with so much traffic still there it feels more normal. Capital hill area is not as bad however there are a lot of boarded up windows, still very bustling and alive with lots of great independent restaurants and bars and interesting shopping. I think overall it felt safer than here, but that's anecdotal however and more likely driven by the constant news stories about random attacks in Vancouver.

It will be interesting to see what their mayor does.

Governor of Californa is proposing to force people with addiction and mental health issues into treatment to work on the problem there.

https://ktla.com/news/california/gov-newsom-proposes-to-force-some-homeless-people-into-treatment/

I just don't understand why all levels of government dump so much money into these societies, the amount of money that goes to administration must be sizable where we need as much efficiency with dollars as possible when the problem has gotten this bad. Of note the tent city at crab park seems to be growing.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by theKB

Governor of Californa is proposing to force people with addiction and mental health issues into treatment to work on the problem there.

Yessssss!

[s211]

Originally Posted by theKB

Capital hill area is not as bad however there are a lot of boarded up windows, still very bustling and alive with lots of great independent restaurants and bars and interesting shopping.

Wasn't Cap Hill where the Defund the Police people dug in deep, and police were coerced into staying out of the area, or has that area re-opened to the law-abiding public again?

I used to travel to Seattle a TON, it was a great place for weekend getaways, but now haven't been there in almost eight years.

[theKB]

Originally Posted by s211

Wasn't Cap Hill where the Defund the Police people dug in deep, and police were coerced into staying out of the area, or has that area re-opened to the law-abiding public again?

I used to travel to Seattle a TON, it was a great place for weekend getaways, but now haven't been there in almost eight years.

Yes Capital Hill was the area where the protestors essentially took over x number of blocks.

[MIPS]

Originally Posted by theKB

Yes Capital Hill was the area where the protestors essentially took over x number of blocks.

There's a number of good bars around there but the place got trashed in squatting and vandalism the CHOP zone allowed to fester.
I have a friend in the area who I'm seeing in a few weeks and while COVID raged on he and his friends had to stop going to the area to bar hop because saying or even visually expressing the wrong thing could get you roughed up. This time around we're doing the crawl elsewhere in the city.

[rofina]

Woman assaulted, stabbed with hypodermic needle in Vancouver attack

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/hypodermic-needle-assault-vancouver

Officers were called on Tuesday at around 4:20 pm, after a 41-year-old woman, who was walking near Main and Pender, was apparently assaulted. The suspect allegedly stuck a needle in the victim’s leg.

Police say that there’s no evidence connecting the two hypodermic needle incidents.

My worst nightmare and one of greatest fears. I much rather be shot.

[whatnext]

From today's Daily Hive:

"The city has to step up": Gastown business owner battling rampant theft
Amir Ali
Mar 11 2022

In her first 21 years of running a business in Gastown, Jackie Haliburton only had to deal with three broken windows.

In just the last two and a half months, she has had to deal with seven smashed windows at her Gastown business. The last year has been particularly brutal for her.

Haliburton runs Angel Vancouver, a business that sells boutique Desigual clothing for men, women and kids in the heart of Gastown. It’s a job she has enjoyed since 1998...

....Now she can’t help but feel like the city — and this neighbourhood in particular — is dying.

We’ve shared many stories about storefronts being smashed and robbed over the last year, but Haliburton explained just how expensive this can be for a business owner.

Basic glass replacement runs between $1,200 and $1,700 for the type of window this building uses. There are other options that provide a little more protection, whether it’s laminate or tempered glass, but those options are harder to afford....

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/gastown-business-owner-theft-city