New BC Political Discussion - POST BC Election 2017

[Ben Dover]

https://eic.rsc.org/feature/is-thori...000092.article

THORIUM!!!

[CanSpice]

Andrew Wilkinson was on the CBC this morning talking BC Hydro and ICBC with Stephen Quinn. It was an amazing display of not accepting any of the blame for driving both of them into the ground with the BC Liberals' 16 years of mismanagement. When Quinn pushed on the government passing legislation that would cap limits for soft tissue damage, Wilkinson said "we don't tell what the courts to do."

I'm pretty sure that's exactly what legislators do when they pass laws, Andrew.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

Andrew Wilkinson was on the CBC this morning talking BC Hydro and ICBC with Stephen Quinn. It was an amazing display of not accepting any of the blame for driving both of them into the ground with the BC Liberals' 16 years of mismanagement. When Quinn pushed on the government passing legislation that would cap limits for soft tissue damage, Wilkinson said "we don't tell what the courts to do."

I'm pretty sure that's exactly what legislators do when they pass laws, Andrew.

All the more odd considering he was a partner in the local office of legal firm McCarthy Tétrault.

[Ben Dover]

Seriously though...the Libs need to hire someone a bit more photogenic as their leader.

[misher]

Originally Posted by Ben Dover

Seriously though...the Libs need to hire someone a bit more photogenic as their leader.

Liberals need a serious makeover/shakeup.

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by Ben Dover

Hello, new member.

Ever since they were elected, I've said that (in time) the BC Liberals would be exposed as THE MOST CORRUPT administration, this province has ever seen...and slowly this is coming to pass.

Howdy, Agreed!

More news showings how the BC Libs have made things more expensive for people in BC... So much for the fallacy that it's the NDP making things more expensive in BC that one forum member will want you to believe. I have to keep my 1 bed 500sf apartment at 15 degrees so my electricity bill isn't $150 like it was last bill... when my place was at a balmy 17.5 inside.

B.C. Hydro's private power projects wasting billions, says new report


VICTORIA — B.C. Hydro is losing billions of dollars because it was forced by the provincial government to sign contracts with private power producers for the wrong type of power at exorbitant rates, according to a new report.

The independent report, commissioned by Energy Minister Michelle Mungall, concluded that the private power contracts will “cost ratepayers an estimated $16.2 billion over 20 years, the estimated period during which B.C. Hydro will likely not need the energy government directed it to buy.”

“The annual impact of this surplus energy to B.C. Hydro ratepayers is estimated at $808 million per year, or $200 per year per residential ratepayer, which is equivalent to $4,000 per residential ratepayer over 20 years,” read the report. “The $16.2 billion estimate is believed to be conservative.”

Report author Ken Davidson, who directed government’s treasury board staff in the 1990s, laid the blame on the policies the former B.C. Liberal government placed on B.C. Hydro to be energy self-sufficient using clean energy sources.

“When I see that (ratepayers) are paying an extra $200 a year for this scheme, for a total of $16.2 billion, a scheme where 80 per cent of that money is going outside of the province … not only is this a big huge boondoggle, but it’s just scandalous,” said Mungall. “It’s unacceptable.”

The IPP contracts are often for 30 years, with terms that could cost Hydro even more if the corporation tried to break free of them to stem its financial losses, Davidson wrote in the report. Three IPP contracts are almost 60 years in length.

“We can’t break them,” said Mungall. “We’re going to have to renegotiate them when we can. And I don’t think it’s appropriate for ratepayers to be paying anything more than market value for this. … Market value has been $25 per megawatt hour and we’ve been paying over $100 in some cases. That’s a $75 discrepancy.”

The IPP contracts contain terms to protect against inflation, which Davidson wrote “could potentially add another $1 billion to the cost estimate over the next 20 years” plus another $7 billion for the longest-term contracts.

“Government directed B.C. Hydro to purchase 8,500 GWh of firm energy B.C. Hydro did not need,” Davidson wrote.

Despite that, the government has said it does need more power as part of its CleanBC plan to electrify the province and meet its pollution reduction goals. That is in addition to power from the Site C dam project.

“It’s the type of intermittent power we were buying that is at issue here,” said Mungall. “The reason Site C is something we are going to need in the future is because it’s firm power. We can lift up the spill gates as needed and run the generators as needed, which you can’t do with a lot of these smaller IPPs.”

The report comes as the B.C. government finishes the first phase of a review into Hydro’s practices in an attempt to find savings and lower rates. Results of the review are expected Thursday. A rate freeze the NDP promised in the 2017 election was rejected by the independent B.C. Utilities Commission because it was deemed unaffordable to Hydro.

Davidson recommended Hydro be tougher when any future IPP contracts come up for renewal that generate intermittent energy, and only make one offer priced at the real market value of the energy produced.

He also called for the reversal of any remaining self-sufficiency policies for Hydro, which could have the added benefit of freeing up Hydro’s energy trading arm, Powerex, to make more money.

Davidson also called for more transparency on future IPPs and the restoration of the utilities commission oversight power on Hydro contracts, which had been circumvented by the previous Liberal government.

Hydro currently has a moratorium on Hydro’s standing offer for IPPs. But government would need to change the law to cancel the program.

Mungall said some First Nations own or partner in IPPs and any change government will make to the program needs to consider the financial impact on their communities.

https://vancouversun.com/news/politi...ays-new-report

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by retro_orange

I have to keep my 1 bed 500sf apartment at 15 degrees so my electricity bill isn't $150 like it was last bill... when my place was at a balmy 17.5 inside.

Are you living in an uninsulated shack and running massive server farms??? I pay Hydro way less than that and have a larger ground floor apartment.

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Are you living in an uninsulated shack and running massive server farms??? I pay Hydro way less than that and have a larger ground floor apartment.

No joke. My apartment building is only 29 years but very drafty. I'm on the second floor of a Cement and steel structure. My floors are always freezing as the new laminate and ceramic were put down right on the concrete with no thermal break and a large part of the slab sticks out as part of the awning.

[misher]

Originally Posted by retro_orange

No joke. My apartment building is only 29 years but very drafty. I'm on the second floor of a Cement and steel structure. My floors are always freezing as the new laminate and ceramic were put down right on the concrete with no thermal break and a large part of the slab sticks out as part of the awning.

Most older buildings tend to have HWB heating, surprised you got electric. Sounds like a large fire risk with that old wiring.

[whatnext]

Another steaming pile of BC Liberal poo left in a paper bag on the doorstep for the NDP and taxpayers to deal with.

For a party out of power for 16 years, the BC NDP is doing a pretty expert job of painting Wilkinson into a corner, deftly crafting a picture of him as an out of touch elitist, presiding over a corrupt party.

[misher]

Originally Posted by retro_orange

Howdy, Agreed!

More news showings how the BC Libs have made things more expensive for people in BC... So much for the fallacy that it's the NDP making things more expensive in BC that one forum member will want you to believe. I have to keep my 1 bed 500sf apartment at 15 degrees so my electricity bill isn't $150 like it was last bill... when my place was at a balmy 17.5 inside.

https://vancouversun.com/news/politi...ays-new-report

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-...-sector-on-ice

“The problem with that report is that it is looking backwards, not the current state of play or the future,” said Mather. “We have major power producers rolling out renewable energy systems around the world because they make financial sense.”

Distributed power projects are also a useful tool for economic development in rural B.C.

There are about 125 independent power projects already operating in B.C., almost all of them partnerships with First Nations.

Dozens of solar, wind and run-of-river power projects have been indefinitely suspended by the provincial government in an effort to manage the cost of electricity from independent power producers.

“That will have to change if B.C. is to pursue its CleanBC plans,” according to Jae Mather, executive director of Clean Energy B.C. By turning its back on alternative energy, B.C. is missing the opportunity to make electricity cheaper for consumers.

B.C. Hydro purchased an estimated 8,500 gigawatt hours of energy from independent power producers amid pressure from the B.C. Liberal government for the hydro authority to use clean energy sources.

More expensive yes, but in return they supported the alternative energy industry. There's always tradeoffs, we signed agreements we lost money on in order to help places develop clean energy for future use. We signed 30-60 year contracts so that people would develop and invest in these capital projects. Not everything is black and white. Personally I wouldn't have done this move as I'm not into the whole carbon neutral green economy craze but I understand why the BC Liberals did.

“We will need more renewable energy if we are going to meet those goals for electrification,” said Mather. “Electrifying industries like liquid natural gas could require the power of two Site C dams.”

Greens defend Liberals in this article https://biv.com/article/2019/02/rene...ts-slammed-ndp

Weaver said the Gordon Campbell government, as part of its climate change action policies, wanted to create a renewable energy industry by requiring BC Hydro to enter long-term power purchase agreements to renewable power developers.

“This was designed to kickstart this industry and it did just that, very effectively,” Weaver said.

“What we have to be very careful of, moving forward, is that we don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater. Because right now the clean energy industry in British Columbia has basically collapsed because of government’s focus on Site C.”

[misher]

If I am a politician, what do I do? The answer is to create a diversion and try to pin the blame on the previous government. Since the 1990s BC Hydro has be acquiring some electricity from independent power producers (IPPs), which include Rio Tinto Alcan, pulp mills and the Columbia Power/Columbia Basin Trust, which are arms of the government. Unlike with BC Hydro projects, the cost of these acquisitions are easily identifiable because there is a long-term contract that contains the price.

In contrast, the costs for a project like Site C will be buried for 70 years in successive financial statements.
The gist of “Zapped” is that the contracts that BC Hydro entered into with IPPs in the mid 2000’s were overpriced and not needed because of political interference by the governing BC Liberals. BC Hydro independently forecast its electricity requirements and acquired or built generation accordingly. For the Zapped thesis to be correct, the BC Liberals conspired with BC Hydro to inflate the load forecast or forced the pen of the forecaster. There is no evidence of this.

BC Hydro’s forecasts have been consistently high since the year 2000 and demand has been more or less flat during the same period. The result is that more electricity has been acquired than is necessary. No conspiracy and no silent hand. Just incorrect forecasting.

https://biv.com/article/2019/02/prov...ically-charged

[WarrenC12]

IPPs and the resultant contracts are well known expensive deals signed by BC Hydro with a lot of people who somehow have connections to the BC Liberals. They were massively expanded in the 16 year BC Lib rule.

We should be exploring more of this:

https://www.nsnews.com/alberta-gover...nts-1.23636108

4.8c/kWh. That's probably less than 50% of the price of Site C power, and it's going to be producing power faster. Solar is the perfect compliment to a hydro system like we have.

(Not that I'm against Site C, we should do both).

[whatnext]

Just what the BC Liberals need, to have a connection with another scandal:

A global communications marketing firm says it is suspending its contract with former British Columbia premier Gordon Campbell in light of an allegation in a British newspaper that he groped a woman in the United Kingdom.

Edelman says in a statement that Campbell has served as a special adviser to the firm since last July, and was engaged on a part-time basis as a consultant through a retainer agreement.

However, the company says it and Campbell have “mutually decided to suspend their consulting arrangement” until a police investigation in the United Kingdom is complete...

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...rdon-campbell/

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

IPPs and the resultant contracts are well known expensive deals signed by BC Hydro with a lot of people who somehow have connections to the BC Liberals. They were massively expanded in the 16 year BC Lib rule.

We should be exploring more of this:

https://www.nsnews.com/alberta-gover...nts-1.23636108

4.8c/kWh. That's probably less than 50% of the price of Site C power, and it's going to be producing power faster. Solar is the perfect compliment to a hydro system like we have.

(Not that I'm against Site C, we should do both).

Doesn't really work that way:


45 cents for a kilowatt/hour is great, but it won't happen if we need to build four times as many plants as Alberta needs (and they're already building 2-3 times as many as Arizona needs). Better off with wind farms around Bella Coola and the Yukon, if anything.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Doesn't really work that way:

45 cents for a kilowatt/hour is great, but it won't happen if we need to build four times as many plants as Alberta needs (and they're already building 2-3 times as many as Arizona needs). Better off with wind farms around Bella Coola and the Yukon, if anything.

That's an interesting map, what is the source?

Are the transmission lines relevant to "potential" or just there for illustrative purposes?

Looking at the scale of that map (which is a mess), we wouldn't need 4 times as many, likely something like 1.5 times in the Okanagan area.

Looks like we have tons of wind potential too.

At the end of the day, transmission lines cross provincial borders. You could argue we're better off buying Alberta solar than building our own damns.

[libtard]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

That's an interesting map, what is the source?

Are the transmission lines relevant to "potential" or just there for illustrative purposes?

Looking at the scale of that map (which is a mess), we wouldn't need 4 times as many, likely something like 1.5 times in the Okanagan area.

Looks like we have tons of wind potential too.

At the end of the day, transmission lines cross provincial borders. You could argue we're better off buying Alberta solar than building our own damns.

We’re not building generating stations to serve our provincial load. We’re building them to export MW’s to AESO, BPA, and CAISO

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

That's an interesting map, what is the source?

Are the transmission lines relevant to "potential" or just there for illustrative purposes?

Looking at the scale of that map (which is a mess), we wouldn't need 4 times as many, likely something like 1.5 times in the Okanagan area.

Looks like we have tons of wind potential too.

At the end of the day, transmission lines cross provincial borders. You could argue we're better off buying Alberta solar than building our own damns.

Right here. Study assumes a national smart grid (built and maintained by flying pigs, perhaps?), so I'd guess the transmission lines are just illustrative.

Ditto to BC/Yukon wind reserves. I concede the Okanagan, but I'd like to repeat that Canada's high latitude and cloud cover reduce the already low amount of solar energy a panel actually converts to electricity. Let's wait and see how Alberta's turns out first.

Remember that lines bleed electricity the farther they go. Intra-provincial loss is only 2-6%, but inter-provincial? Seems like we'd be paying whatever rate Alberta needs to turn a profit, then getting less than we bought at the end; better to generate our own.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by libtard

We’re not building generating stations to serve our provincial load. We’re building them to export MW’s to AESO, BPA, and CAISO

You saying "we" as in BC here? I'm not sure BC is going to be exporting much to Alberta if they keep getting rates like that.

And if CleanBC is going to happen, we need all the MW we can get. Site C goes hand in hand with LNG, using electricity to compress instead of the gas itself.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Ditto to BC/Yukon wind reserves. I concede the Okanagan, but I'd like to repeat that Canada's high latitude and cloud cover reduce the already low amount of solar energy a panel actually converts to electricity. Let's wait and see how Alberta's turns out first.

Sure, I'm not suggesting BC become a Solar powerhouse, I'm just trying to illustrate how cheap Solar is getting, even in regions that aren't ideal for it. Prices and technology have changed dramatically in the last 10 years, and will continue to do so. Small scale projects can showcase the technology quickly. If we need another Site C's worth of power, we're going to spend another 40 years getting a damn approved.

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Remember that lines bleed electricity the farther they go. Intra-provincial loss is only 2-6%, but inter-provincial? Seems like we'd be paying whatever rate Alberta needs to turn a profit, then getting less than we bought at the end; better to generate our own.

We sell power all the way down the west coast to California. I know line loss is an issue, but obviously we can deal with it and still make some money.