Speech pattern and typographical variations across Canada

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by esquire

Canadian English is basically US English with a few "u"s thrown in so we can herald ourselves as being distinctive. I don't get the idea of expressing national pride by saying 'leftenant', for example.

Some seem to treat the use of UK conventions as some kind of act of resistance against our US cultural overlord, but I don't see how one colonial master is any better than another in this regard. Apart from Canada-specific terms like bunnyhug, pogey and other quirky words like that, it's not like those customs and uses were invented here.

Language is culture. There are very few words and absolutely no pronunciations here that can't be directly traced to Waterford, Wexford, Bristol, and their surrounding areas. But they're crucial to identity. The minority here that has no distinctly Newfoundland accent are usually also the ones least attached to here, most culturally mainstream Canadian. So I understand and support any effort, conscious or otherwise, to sustain anything that differentiates Canadian English from its surroundings.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Language is culture. There are very few words and absolutely no pronunciations here that can't be directly traced to Waterford, Wexford, Bristol, and their surrounding areas. But they're crucial to identity. The minority here that has no distinctly Newfoundland accent are usually also the ones least attached to here, most culturally mainstream Canadian. So I understand and support any effort, conscious or otherwise, to sustain anything that differentiates Canadian English from its surroundings.

I get that not all of Canada is uniform when it comes to language. Certainly Quebec and indigenous peoples have their own thing going on, and you guys in NL have some pretty distinct characteristics. But for just about everyone else, the differences at this point are so minor and trivial I wonder what it is exactly that we're clinging to. Once these differences are promoted as an act of asserting one's culture rather than what happens normally, it starts feeling forced and artificial.

I mean, my dad was born here, but he had an accent growing up in Manitoba's northern Interlake surrounded by pretty well no one but Ukrainians and Icelanders. It came naturally to him, as he grew up in a pretty small world where the mere act of getting Winnipeg was an all day affair and television was practically science fiction. But I would feel downright absurd if I forced myself to adopt his accent and vocabulary as a means of asserting identity... I already have an authentic cultural and linguistic identity, even if it's different from his.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by esquire

Canadian English is basically US English with a few "u"s thrown in so we can herald ourselves as being distinctive. I don't get the idea of expressing national pride by saying 'leftenant', for example.

Some seem to treat the use of UK conventions as some kind of act of resistance against our US cultural overlord, but I don't see how one colonial master is any better than another in this regard. Apart from Canada-specific terms like bunnyhug, pogey and other quirky words like that, it's not like those customs and uses were invented here.

I don’t say “loootenant” because it’s an illiterate Americanism, not out of national pride. It’s as intellectually and morally weak as pronouncing the first “L” in “colonel” or as failing to understand that “Featherstonhaugh” is pronounced “Fanshaw” rather than phonetically.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Andy6

I don’t say “loootenant” because it’s an illiterate Americanism, not out of national pride. It’s as intellectually and morally weak as pronouncing the first “L” in “colonel” or as failing to understand that “Featherstonhaugh” is pronounced “Fanshaw” rather than phonetically.

So how far do you take this rather aggressive stance against intellectual and moral weakness? The language has obviously evolved significantly over the past X number of years, with X being pretty well any number you want greater than 100. Why are only the changes up to a certain point OK?

(I wish I could say I never succumbed to the impulse you described, but I admit to visibly wincing whenever I have the Food Network on and someone calls for "Worchester-Shyer" sauce instead of "Worcestershire")

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by esquire

(I wish I could say I never succumbed to the impulse you described, but I admit to visibly wincing...

"Craw-sayant" inspires murderous feelings in me, and "craw-saunt" only a bit less so. Seems to me that you can plot social class and/or educational background in southern Ontario by the three pronunciations of "croissant" that you hear.

The first time I heard an American say "foyer" I literally thought he was putting on an Irish accent, so I did my best drunken priest and tried to make a joke about "jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire." That just made things even more confusing.

I purposely say "what?" or "a what code?" when I'm asked for my "zip" or "zip code" when speaking with customer service for a product sold in other countries. The best reaction I've gotten was about six or seven progressively heated and shouty repetitions of the question, then silence, then "um...what's your postal code?"

It's the little things.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by esquire

Canadian English is basically US English with a few "u"s thrown in so we can herald ourselves as being distinctive. I don't get the idea of expressing national pride by saying 'leftenant', for example.

Some seem to treat the use of UK conventions as some kind of act of resistance against our US cultural overlord, but I don't see how one colonial master is any better than another in this regard. Apart from Canada-specific terms like bunnyhug, pogey and other quirky words like that, it's not like those customs and uses were invented here.

Nothing to do with national pride. From the day you walk into the CAF recruiting centre all you’ll hear is “Lefttenaunt”. If anyone wearing a CAF uniform called another Canadian officer “Lootenaunt” they’d be stared at for a second before being laughed at derisively.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by rousseau

"Craw-sayant" inspires murderous feelings in me, and "craw-saunt" only a bit less so. Seems to me that you can plot social class and/or educational background in southern Ontario by the three pronunciations of "croissant" that you hear.

The first time I heard an American say "foyer" I literally thought he was putting on an Irish accent, so I did my best drunken priest and tried to make a joke about "jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire." That just made things even more confusing.

I purposely say "what?" or "a what code?" when I'm asked for my "zip" or "zip code" when speaking with customer service for a product sold in other countries. The best reaction I've gotten was about six or seven progressively heated and shouty repetitions of the question, then silence, then "um...what's your postal code?"

It's the little things.

The pronunciation in English of "arctic" and "nuclear" by some people really gets on my nerves. I think you know what I mean.

CBC Newsworld used to have a national anchorman who'd pronounce "nuclear" in the uneducated way. It drove me nuts.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

Nothing to do with national pride. From the day you walk into the CAF recruiting centre all you’ll hear is “Lefttenaunt”. If anyone wearing a CAF uniform called another Canadian officer “Lootenaunt” they’d be stared at for a second before being laughed at derisively.

Just as I'm sure that virtually all (Anglophone) RCMP members will refer to their colleagues as "Constable MacIntosh" or "Constable Smith", rather than "Officer Smith" etc......

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The pronunciation in English of "arctic" and "nuclear" by some people really gets on my nerves. I think you know what I mean.

CBC Newsworld used to have a national anchorman who'd pronounce "nuclear" in the uneducated way. It drove me nuts.

For me it's more the cadence than the pronunciation. Justin Trudeau, Brian Mulroney, etc. That way of talking just sounds so vapid to me. I can't stand it.

Beyond that, I just hate how long it takes people to say anything. I can say in 15 seconds what takes them a minute. And certain words... like when people from western Canada say "downtown". It's as though time stops.

In terms of actual words... I don't particularly care for "ah" instead of "r" in New England. I cringe when anyone from mainland North America says "car" - that's a good unreasonable one. I hate the way Americans and some Canadians shorten "ing" words. Turning "nothing" into "nuthin'" is like nails on chalkboard. Here, it'd be "nudding", which is probably just as annoying to others.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The pronunciation in English of "arctic" and "nuclear" by some people really gets on my nerves. I think you know what I mean.

CBC Newsworld used to have a national anchorman who'd pronounce "nuclear" in the uneducated way. It drove me nuts.

You could probably fill a separate thread with poor Canadian pronunciation. Artic, Febyouary, pitchers (the kind one hangs on a wall). sangwich, the list goes on. And then there's the vowel shifts, aka "Manager to checkout sex" announcements at the supermarket.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

Nothing to do with national pride. From the day you walk into the CAF recruiting centre all you’ll hear is “Lefttenaunt”. If anyone wearing a CAF uniform called another Canadian officer “Lootenaunt” they’d be stared at for a second before being laughed at derisively.

It's a bit different in a professional field where there is all sorts of quirky jargon you are expected to know, and to pronounce the right way. No one is really talking about that kind of thing.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by esquire

It's a bit different in a professional field where there is all sorts of quirky jargon you are expected to know, and to pronounce the right way. No one is really talking about that kind of thing.

Nor was he. The correct Canadian pronunciation of Lieutenant is standard stuff, not jargon.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

You could probably fill a separate thread with poor Canadian pronunciation. Artic, Febyouary, pitchers (the kind one hangs on a wall). sangwich, the list goes on. And then there's the vowel shifts, aka "Manager to checkout sex" announcements at the supermarket.

And your favourite, "Can I help who's next?"

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

And your favourite, "Can I help who's next?"

(Shudders at the memory). Oddly, I seem to be hearing it less frequently. Perhaps Who's Next has left the building?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Nor was he. The correct Canadian pronunciation of Lieutenant is standard stuff, not jargon.

Whether it's technically correct or not, I doubt the average Canadian would care if someone said loo-tenant. The subset of Canadians who really do care are likely pedants or people who belong to an armed service or police force.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

And your favourite, "Can I help who's next?"

I only respond to "can I help who's ever next", which I hear with startling regularity

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Nor was he. The correct Canadian pronunciation of Lieutenant is standard stuff, not jargon.

The word "lieutenant" (also pronounced with the "leff-") is also part of the name of the vice-regal representative in all of our provinces: the lieutenant-governor.

So as you say, it's not really obscure.

Yes, it does represent a departure from the way people refer to Lt. Worf in Star Trek and Lt. Starbuck in Battlestar Galactica.

But I think we're smart enough to manage both!

[kwoldtimer]

This reminds me of one I heard (from a CBC Radio One host!) earlier today. Why do so many people mispronounce "mischievous" as though it had four syllables (mis-chee-vee-us)?

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Mes enfants (ados) et leurs amis ne l'emploient vraiment qu'en plaisantant.

C'est ce que j'ai observé aussi.

C'est une tendance universelle par contre - avec les communications modernes, les accents ont tendence à s'uniformiser partout. Dommage (ça va rendre le monde un peu plus banal et moins coloré), mais difficilement évitable.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by rousseau

I purposely say "what?" or "a what code?" when I'm asked for my "zip" or "zip code" when speaking with customer service for a product sold in other countries. The best reaction I've gotten was about six or seven progressively heated and shouty repetitions of the question, then silence, then "um...what's your postal code?"

It's the little things.

I wonder if I asked FrAnKs to translate "code postal" into English, if he wouldn't have the same instinct as me and want to say "zipcode".