Speech pattern and typographical variations across Canada

[The Chemist]

Even if the decision to maintain Canadian English is political (I don't believe that it is), what would be the issue with that? As an independent country, it isn't required for us to go along with what the US does even if they are our neighbours and even if they do have 10 times our population. It is well within our rights to protect and encourage the cultural differences that do exist between our two nations.

Or would those claiming that Canadian English is 100% political and shouldn't be protected or promulgated in Canadian schools say the same thing about Taiwanese Mandarin? That Taiwan shouldn't bother maintaining the use of traditional Characters or their own form of transliteration (Zhuyin rather than the Hanyu Pinyin used on the Chinese mainland), not to mention differences in vocabulary and pronunciation? After all, China is far more culturally dominant than Taiwan in the Sinosphere and has 50x the population of Taiwan.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by FrAnKs

Je me trompes où on observe une disparition graduelle du ''Moé - toé''... et autre mots du genre, avec les nouvelles générations? J'ai l'impression que c'était plus prononcé chez les baby-boomers.

Mes enfants (ados) et leurs amis ne l'emploient vraiment qu'en plaisantant.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

In Commonwealth militaries Lieutenant is pronounced “lefttenaunt”, Americans pronounce it as”Lootenaunt”.
I think I read that our way came from the French. Americans are just lazy fuckers! (I say this with all due respect to our southern overlords!)

The Commonwealth's "lef-tenant" might come from old French, but in modern French there is no F sound in "lieutenant".

The way we say it in French is actually closer to the American, and sounds like "lee-oo-tenan(t).

Also police forces in Quebec have lieutenant as a rank, which I don't believe exits outside of Quebec.

We also don't have "constable" in Quebec police ranks, except for the RCMP when it operates in Quebec. An RCMP constable in French is a "gendarme".

In all other police in Quebec I believe the constable-level rank is "agent".

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Pinus

It wasn't a swipe at Quebec. I was asking because I couldn't think of another reason why that province would purposefully disregard the teaching of Canadian English in it's educational currriculum in comparison to all other provinces.

If there is any "diss" towards Anglo-Canada in the high degree of American spelling seen in the English used in Quebec, it's in the amazement I am sure many here would express at the notion that there is such a thing as Canadian English (spelling and vocabulary) that is distinct from the American.

Though on a micro level it's worth noting that American spelling and vocabulary are also very, very common amongst Anglo-Quebecers themselves, and one can't say that that crowd is anti-Canadian in any way.

[SignalHillHiker]

That's an interesting one to see what everyone uses.

The Royal Newfoundland Constabulary uses, beginning with the lowest rank:

• Cadet
• Constable
• Sergeant
• Staff Sergeant
• Inspector
• Superintendent
• Deputy Chief
• Chief of Police

It's the oldest civil police force in North America so those terms might be outdated the farther west you go, I'm not sure. Quick Google search shows Ontario clearly based on the same terms, just with additional descriptors.

There's also a High Sheriff and that sort of thing but I think that's part of the Department of Justice and I've no idea how it works.

One local oddity, though not really a word - judges wear wear pink robes.

[MonctonRad]

Map of the world showing which variant of English is taught in school (American English vs British English).


source: https://moverdb.com/british-vs-american-english/

American English holds sway in Latin America, the far east and in Saudi Arabia. The Queen's English controls the rest of the world.

[Mister F]

Originally Posted by lio45

BTW... Where's the logic in that??

How on Earth can anyone justify that words that all entered English from (Middle/Norman) French and which all have the exact same ending (couleur, majeur, honneur, faveur...) would produce anything but the same ending after their migration (i.e. color, major, honor, favor...) ?

American English is more logical there.

You're looking for logic in the English language?

Originally Posted by The Chemist

Even if the decision to maintain Canadian English is political (I don't believe that it is), what would be the issue with that? As an independent country, it isn't required for us to go along with what the US does even if they are our neighbours and even if they do have 10 times our population. It is well within our rights to protect and encourage the cultural differences that do exist between our two nations.

Or would those claiming that Canadian English is 100% political and shouldn't be protected or promulgated in Canadian schools say the same thing about Taiwanese Mandarin? That Taiwan shouldn't bother maintaining the use of traditional Characters or their own form of transliteration (Zhuyin rather than the Hanyu Pinyin used on the Chinese mainland), not to mention differences in vocabulary and pronunciation? After all, China is far more culturally dominant than Taiwan in the Sinosphere and has 50x the population of Taiwan.

And Taiwan was part of China for centuries. What is now Canada has been independent of the United States for its entire history.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Map of the world showing which variant of English is taught in school (American English vs British English).


source: https://moverdb.com/british-vs-american-english/

American English holds sway in Latin America, the far east and in Saudi Arabia. The Queen's English controls the rest of the world.

The English taught and used in China is definitely the American variety, not British.

[vid]

Originally Posted by Mister F

You're looking for logic in the English language?

The tetragraphs ough and augh are laughing at him right now.

[lio45]

My point stands though - I'm pronouncing the endings of color and major the same way, therefore I'm spelling them the same way. Even though most languages have their quirks, I don't see why I should go out of my way to needlessly make things even more illogical. :p

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by lio45

My point stands though - I'm pronouncing the endings of color and major the same way, therefore I'm spelling them the same way. Even though most languages have their quirks, I don't see why I should go out of my way to needlessly make things even more illogical. :p

Just as long as I can drop all of the silent letters in French.

And the genders for inanimate objects.

[kwoldtimer]

You'll also need to do some additional spelling changes in Englsh: Aura, aural, and aurora come to mind. Not sure what to think about Seymour - since its a proper name, I guess it must remain "illogical". Pompadour could be an interesting discussion - when referring to a hairstyle, could it be a "pompador"?

Come to think of it, dinosaur, war, pour, oar, and centaur. Not to mention troubadour.

[The Chemist]

Originally Posted by rousseau

The English taught and used in China is definitely the American variety, not British.

No. It's more like a weird mix of both, at least in Shanghai, anyway. They tend to favour the British spellings, but at the higher levels they present both pronunciations so students are aware of the differences.

Source: My stepson and daughter are both in the Shanghai public school system.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Just as long as I can drop all of the silent letters in French.

And the genders for inanimate objects.

Reminds me of an old joke.........

English to become the official language of the EU

The European Commission has just announced an agreement whereby English will be the official language of the European Union rather than German, which was the other possibility.

As part of the negotiations, the British Government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a 5- year phase-in plan that would become known as "Euro-English".

In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c". Sertainly, this will make the sivil servants jump with joy. The hard "c" will be dropped in favour of "k". This should klear up konfusion, and keyboards kan have one less letter.

There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced with "f". This will make words like fotograf 20% shorter.

In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible.

Governments will enkourage the removal of double letters which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling.

Also, al wil agre that the horibl mes of the silent "e" in the languag is disgrasful and it should go away.

By the 4th yer peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" with "z" and "w" with "v".

During ze fifz yer, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou" and after ziz fifz yer, ve vil hav a reil sensi bl riten styl.

Zer vil be no mor trubl or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi TU understand ech oza. Ze drem of a united urop vil finali kum tru.

Und efter ze fifz yer, ve vil al be speking German like zey vunted in ze forst plas.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Just as long as I can drop all of the silent letters in French.

If French French had dropped them centuries ago while Québécois French hadn't, I honestly couldn't really fault an Anglo-Vancouverite for going with the more logical variant when learning French from his home - especially given that most of the French-language websites and books he'd encounter would have the French spelling.

[Oyster Ditch]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Just as long as I can drop all of the silent letters in French.

And the genders for inanimate objects.

The French language’s insistence that all inanimate objects are cis gender is fascist nazism. Maybe some of those words identify as the other gender. Every think of that mon esti?

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Map of the world showing which variant of English is taught in school (American English vs British English).


source: https://moverdb.com/british-vs-american-english/

American English holds sway in Latin America, the far east and in Saudi Arabia. The Queen's English controls the rest of the world.

I assume this is mostly about teaching English to outsiders or non-native speakers (though in some cases, standard variants can replace non-standard variants even when both are "native")? Or do Aussies, South Africans etc. literally teach their students the "British" variant?

Things like Australian and NZ English, South African English, Irish English, Jamaican English are now their own thing "owned" by their native speakers (though they may be offshoots of British-derived or American-derived English).

If these can have their own variants that are considered "standard", then Canada can too.

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by Mister F

You're looking for logic in the English language?


And Taiwan was part of China for centuries. What is now Canada has been independent of the United States for its entire history.

Well, it's not that Canada was under US rule but that the US and Canada (or at least colonies that later became them) were under Britain's rule.

But what country was a part of another country, or influenced by another in the distant past anyways doesn't bind or oblige a country to keep that influence. Whether Canada was part of the British Empire or British North America, or under shared British rule with the colonies that were once the US means little now.

How many European countries after all, were merged and split with kingdoms, over centuries, if not millenia, sharing a language totally different from what was later spoken and what is spoken now.

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by The Chemist

Even if the decision to maintain Canadian English is political (I don't believe that it is), what would be the issue with that? As an independent country, it isn't required for us to go along with what the US does even if they are our neighbours and even if they do have 10 times our population. It is well within our rights to protect and encourage the cultural differences that do exist between our two nations.

Or would those claiming that Canadian English is 100% political and shouldn't be protected or promulgated in Canadian schools say the same thing about Taiwanese Mandarin? That Taiwan shouldn't bother maintaining the use of traditional Characters or their own form of transliteration (Zhuyin rather than the Hanyu Pinyin used on the Chinese mainland), not to mention differences in vocabulary and pronunciation? After all, China is far more culturally dominant than Taiwan in the Sinosphere and has 50x the population of Taiwan.

Using that logic, all decisions about a language standard are political.

Copying another country's standards is political, and wanting to keep your own country's standards is also political.

It's not like just going along with only one of the choices is the political statement and not the other. Either way you're making a statement about what you want your country's standard to be like.

[esquire]

Canadian English is basically US English with a few "u"s thrown in so we can herald ourselves as being distinctive. I don't get the idea of expressing national pride by saying 'leftenant', for example.

Some seem to treat the use of UK conventions as some kind of act of resistance against our US cultural overlord, but I don't see how one colonial master is any better than another in this regard. Apart from Canada-specific terms like bunnyhug, pogey and other quirky words like that, it's not like those customs and uses were invented here.