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  #2821  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2015, 1:47 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
This is really an amazingly audacious and ballsy project for Calgary to take on... a multiple facility project like this is a very rare thing. You don't often see it outside the Olympics... it has never been done before on Canada on a scale like this, and even in the US I'm hard pressed to think of places where it has been done. (KC's football/baseball complex is one... any others??)
I just hope there aren't too many public funds involved... If mostly private then cool for Calgary. I wonder what'll happen to the Saddledome though...
     
     
  #2822  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2015, 1:50 PM
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^ Good question. Calgary seems big enough that you would think it could benefit from having two large scale venues... it seems to have worked out in Vancouver. (By contrast, part of the deal in Winnipeg when the MTS Centre was built was that the old Winnipeg Arena had to be demolished, but it was already 50 years old by then and badly out of date anyway...even though it was built in the 50s it had more in common with really old venues like Maple Leaf Gardens than with 60s rinks like Pacific Coliseum or the Spectrum)
     
     
  #2823  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2015, 1:51 PM
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^ Good location next to the new LRT line. Is it in service yet? if so, what sort of ridership is it garnering?
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  #2824  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2015, 1:59 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
^ Good question. Calgary seems big enough that you would think it could benefit from having two large scale venues... it seems to have worked out in Vancouver. (By contrast, part of the deal in Winnipeg when the MTS Centre was built was that the old Winnipeg Arena had to be demolished, but it was already 50 years old by then and badly out of date anyway...even though it was built in the 50s it had more in common with really old venues like Maple Leaf Gardens than with 60s rinks like Pacific Coliseum or the Spectrum)
Very few cities have two arenas and two stadiums... Even New York only has MSG and the Barclays Center.
     
     
  #2825  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2015, 2:04 PM
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Originally Posted by SkahHigh View Post
Very few cities have two arenas and two stadiums... Even New York only has MSG and the Barclays Center.
It's not entirely unheard of, but yeah, it's not the norm. (Interestingly, Kansas City of all places has no NBA or NHL team yet it has two large, full-size professional arenas that could handle one including one of the best venues on the continent...)

Isn't Edmonton going to keep Rexall Place given that the proprietor (Edmonton Northlands) is in no great rush to knock it down? Perhaps having two arenas will become a more common sight... given that many of the arenas being replaced are only 25 years old or so, it would seem to make sense to get a bit more use out of them given that there generally isn't anything wrong with them.
     
     
  #2826  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2015, 2:45 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
This is really an amazingly audacious and ballsy project for Calgary to take on... a multiple facility project like this is a very rare thing. You don't often see it outside the Olympics... it has never been done before on Canada on a scale like this, and even in the US I'm hard pressed to think of places where it has been done. (KC's football/baseball complex is one... any others??)
Only other one I can think of is VTB Arena Park in Russia

http://www.manicaarchitecture.com/projects/stadia/6-vtb-arena-park
     
     
  #2827  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2015, 3:53 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
It's not entirely unheard of, but yeah, it's not the norm. (Interestingly, Kansas City of all places has no NBA or NHL team yet it has two large, full-size professional arenas that could handle one including one of the best venues on the continent...)

Isn't Edmonton going to keep Rexall Place given that the proprietor (Edmonton Northlands) is in no great rush to knock it down? Perhaps having two arenas will become a more common sight... given that many of the arenas being replaced are only 25 years old or so, it would seem to make sense to get a bit more use out of them given that there generally isn't anything wrong with them.
Edmonton will only kind of have Rexall Place once the new building opens. Northland's plan is to repurpose the building into conference space, smaller concert venue, and a hockey training facility. So while the building will be there, likely not in the same sense of a competing facility.
     
     
  #2828  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2015, 4:04 PM
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Edmonton will only kind of have Rexall Place once the new building opens. Northland's plan is to repurpose the building into conference space, smaller concert venue, and a hockey training facility. So while the building will be there, likely not in the same sense of a competing facility.
Interesting... so is this basically a MLG scenario where they're going to totally reconfigure the interior? How many seats will remain?
     
     
  #2829  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2015, 4:08 PM
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Hasty judgement on new Calgary arena project could rob city of important facility
Eric Francis, Calgary Sun August 18, 2015

*** We will be live streaming an afternoon press conference where Flames representatives are expected to pull back the curtain on the secretive 'CalgaryNEXT' project. The press conference begins at 2:30 p.m. Look for it on calgarysun.com ***

In the midst of unveiling their vision for a new arena, football stadium and fieldhouse the Calgary Flames highly-anticipated coming out party will also feature an ask.

As team president and CEO Ken King officially kick-starts a conversation Tuesday that will set the record straight on what the Flames hope to build in the city’s west end he will reveal a price tag associated with the massive project.

As in, how much taxpayers will be asked to help foot the bill.

The endless rumours and reports on the project to this point have prompted plenty of politicians and Calgarians to take early stands on the unacceptability of putting a single dime towards “building an NHL rink for rich owners and players.”

It’s a ridiculously simplistic, predictable and narrow-minded response that could cost the city one of the most transformative projects in Calgary lore.

When King unveils the size and scope of what his ownership group hopes to build the important thing for locals is to keep an open mind.

While the sticker shock of building these state-of-the-art, world class facilities is sure to grab the biggest headlines what can’t be lost is the opportunity being offered up here.

This city is in the midst of a sizeable recession with no apparent end in sight.

Massive capital projects like these are being shelved around the province while thousands of people are being laid off.

Yet, while many suggest the timing couldn’t be worse for the Flames to show up at City Hall and the provincial legislature with hat in hand, looking for funding partners, the opposite may be true: perhaps never more does this city need an economic boost like this.

Never before has a Canadian city ever bolstered its landscape with a new NHL hockey rink and pro football stadium at the same time. Good luck finding any city in North America that has.

These opportunities just don’t come along, especially with a fieldhouse to provide the city with another world-class venue to get kids and adults active.

Of course that will cost money.

If able to build what they hope to build in the next 3-5 years, these facilities will be the envy of the North American sports landscape.

Quite a legacy for this city.

Through years of rumours and outside debate King has asked all along only that people judge the potential project once ownership’s vision has been fully unveiled.

At long last that happens Tuesday.

Mayor Naheed Nenshi told the Sun well over a year ago the cost of cleaning up the creosote-contaminated land would be $500 million. Estimates have since varied, which is why one of the next steps is finding experts to find an accurate price tag.

What that cost is and who pays it are huge question marks that need to be factored into the equation.

How much are the owners willing to pay, what sort of ticket tax might all this be accompanied by and how are parking and concession revenues split between various stakeholders?

Don’t expect the Flames to have all the answers tomorrow as this is being deemed an information session as opposed to an unveiling.

The time has simply come to get this conversation/debate into the open and they’ll do that by sharing how much has been done towards making a potentially transformative project a reality.

Money is tight these days and the Flames will have to demonstrate to everyone the benefits associated with spending millions of tax dollars on venues that do so much more than house pro sports teams.

No matter how high the initial ask might be, open minds are indeed needed to filter through a process that may eventually land this city something the city and the province can take endless pride in while also transforming a west end essentially being used as a parking lot right now.

Sports fan or not, every Calgarian is a stakeholder, which is why open, honest discussion is needed, making Tuesday’s presentations to season-ticket holders and the media so highly-anticipated.

Eventually this will get done.

But only if people are willing to do the work by learning the facts and letting politicians know their thoughts.
     
     
  #2830  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2015, 4:08 PM
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Flames expected to unveil 'one giant' sports complex
Annalise Klingbeil, Trevor Howell, Calgary Herald August 18, 2015

After a week-long tease, the owners of the Calgary Flames are expected to unveil their plan Tuesday to build a “giant” enclosed sports complex for the city’s professional hockey and football teams, as well as a public field house.

It’s anticipated that Ken King, CEO of Calgary Sports and Entertainment Corp., will pitch that the CalgaryNEXT megaproject be built near the Bow River, west of downtown near the Greyhound bus station.

The organization and public officials have remained vague about the exact details of the project many expect will combine a new arena for Calgary’s NHL team, a domed football stadium for the CFL’s Calgary Stampeders and an amateur sports field house.

While most have remained tight-lipped about the proposal, Ward 5 Coun. Ray Jones hinted Monday that CalgaryNEXT would be a single, massive facility, according to the plan he saw several months ago.

It would all be combined together, all three,” said Jones, a well-known Stamps fan. “I think it’s all just one giant building from what I understand of the plans.”

He cautioned the plan could have changed over the ensuing months and he was excited to see the proposal when it’s presented to season ticket holders at an invitation-only event Tuesday morning on the Stampede grounds.

“It’s a hell of proposal that they’re putting together,” Jones said, adding the Flames are “putting up the majority of the money.”

Plans to replace the aging Scotiabank Saddledome stretch back to at least 2007, when King first began drafting plans for a new arena.

The proposal would move the Stampeders from McMahon Stadium, a 55-year-old facility that sits on University of Calgary land.

It’s unclear what would happen to the football stadium, which was built in 103 days in 1960 and has undergone a number of expansions over the years, if the Stampeders move out.

Larry Robinson, a Canadian Football Hall of Fame member and former Calgary Stampeder defensive back/kicker from 1961 to 1974, said a covered stadium roof would be beneficial for both fans and players.

“If they do it right, they should be able to put a hockey rink and a football field in the same covered building,” he said.

Robinson played countless games in freezing conditions, but today the man behind a 1970 game-winning field goal that’s been dubbed the finest cold weather play of all time, won’t go to McMahon Stadium to watch a game if it’s raining.

“I don’t want to go sit in the cold when you can watch it on TV,” said Robinson, who noted a covered roof would make for a much more comfortable environment.

Calgary Sports and Entertainment also oversees the Calgary Hitmen of the Western Hockey League and the Calgary Roughnecks of the National Lacrosse League, both of which currently play at the Saddledome.

In Edmonton, the Oilers’ $480-million new arena will be completed next year. The capital city’s tax-backed loan, ticket tax and parking revenue will cover much of its cost.

Mayor Naheed Nenshi and councillors have openly opposed subsidizing professional sports buildings with public money, although some are now showing a willingness to spend tax dollars on the project if the public field house is included.

“If there was a proposal that incorporated a field house and a football stadium, I would be open to discussions about public funds,” said Ward 13 Coun. Shane Keating.

“The reason I’m saying that is the City of Calgary is looking at building their own indoor field house that would work for amateur sports across the board,” Keating said.

Council deemed the field house, which could include an enclosed track and sportsplex for badminton, basketball, soccer and other sports, a public project with an estimated $202-million price tag.

The project sits atop City Hall’s unfunded infrastructure priority list.

“We have to build one,” Jones said. “We’re the only major city in Canada that doesn’t have a multi-purpose sports field. Edmonton has two of them.

“The problem is we don’t have $200 million sitting around doing nothing,” he added.

A city-owned agency is hiring a consultant to study the scope of environmental contamination in the area west of downtown, which was the former home of a creosote plant and has long posed an environmental headache to potential developers.

Previous estimates have put the cleanup costs at between $50 million and $300 million — a cost Keating said the city shouldn’t bear.

“If the Flames organization is looking at that type of thing, that would have to be part of their responsibilities as well,” he said.

“That’s part of the deal,” Keating said. “They can’t build there and actually expect the city to do the clean up.”

Meanwhile, community associations near the land being touted for the new megacomplex are forming an alliance so a united front can be presented as the plans are unveiled.

Representatives from communities including Scarboro, Sunalta and Shaganappi have formed a group dubbed the West Village Neighbourhood Alliance and met a few times over the last six months to discuss the implications of a major sports development in the neighbourhood.

“We don’t know what this announcement is going to be … but we do think we need to work together, if we want to have some input in this process,” said Sunalta Community Association president Nick Twyman.

“We’re in a wait-and-see mode right now … I know the communities that are most directly affected, we’re keen to be engaged and see where this thing goes.”

Currently home to auto dealerships and a Greyhound bus station, the West Village land being touted for the project is located in Sunalta, a small community Twyman said is mostly made up of multi-family dwellings, a lot of rental accommodation and a significant immigrant population.

Social disorder, homelessness, poverty and crime are all existing problems in the neighbourhood, said Twyman, who wants the community to have a say on the potential new major development that will be moving in.

“We don’t want Sunalta to end up like the area around the Stampede grounds right now. It’s a wasteland down there,” he said.

Gary Young, president of the Downtown West Community association, said he’s “cautiously optimistic” as he awaits Tuesday’s news.

Young said traffic is already a major issue in the neighbourhood and will be impacted further by the development.

“We’re right next door (to West Village). Getting traffic in and out is the major thing. Hopefully people will use the transit system to get there,” he said.
     
     
  #2831  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2015, 4:15 PM
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Interesting... so is this basically a MLG scenario where they're going to totally reconfigure the interior? How many seats will remain?
You know what, I had my facts wrong. The only details on Rexall are "hockey training centre," no more details than that. The entire plan for Northlands included some of what I said. Could be a HUGE project if it all goes through, would be awesome to see.

Edit: He follows up a few posts later suggesting it could be converted to an 8-9 rink facility. So perhaps a MLG type thing.

Thanks to a fellow SSPer for posting:

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Originally Posted by canucklehead2 View Post
Tim spilled the beans to employees during the pre-Kday's staff event.

The overall master plan total cost is about $400M. Rexall stays as hockey training centre, pedways will connect Rexall, Expo and the Racetrack grandstand (which still may be flipped), Hall E will be converted to a 5000-seat concert venue, 1-2 hotels are planned (1 budget Holiday-Inn type, 1 upscale conference hotel), racetrack infield will be converted to outdoor concert venue for up to 90,000 so that big name acts (U2, Rolling Stones, etc) that currently use Commonwealth can be accommodated. The racetrack license is up in 2016, but the company is trying to get that extended.

Trying to seek a 3-festival/year deal with LiveNation. Also talk about building a soccer-only stadium somewhere on the grounds as well… Some preliminary deals were signed about that apparently...

The Rush don't seem to be much of a factor in the plans, which is a shame, but I get it. Calgary is also trying to snag CFR away from Rogers Place, so that will be announced within the next few months as well…
     
     
  #2832  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2015, 4:20 PM
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It's not entirely unheard of, but yeah, it's not the norm. (Interestingly, Kansas City of all places has no NBA or NHL team yet it has two large, full-size professional arenas that could handle one including one of the best venues on the continent...)

Isn't Edmonton going to keep Rexall Place given that the proprietor (Edmonton Northlands) is in no great rush to knock it down? Perhaps having two arenas will become a more common sight... given that many of the arenas being replaced are only 25 years old or so, it would seem to make sense to get a bit more use out of them given that there generally isn't anything wrong with them.


2 Arenas almost never work in 1 city. LA has 2 but one is strictly a concert venue. Vancouver hes 2 but pacific signed a non compete with Rogers arena so they can only host what Rogers arena doesn't want. Rexall will either be torn down or renovated to be a smaller venue and that has been stated many times by northlands. Same with saddle dome however i suspect they will wanna reclaim that land

Last edited by Oilkountry; Aug 18, 2015 at 4:35 PM.
     
     
  #2833  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2015, 4:51 PM
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Originally Posted by SkahHigh View Post
I just hope there aren't too many public funds involved... If mostly private then cool for Calgary. I wonder what'll happen to the Saddledome though...
I would be interested to hear your thoughts on the funding formula for the new Quebec City arena.
     
     
  #2834  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2015, 5:14 PM
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I would be interested to hear your thoughts on the funding formula for the new Quebec City arena.
No one is happy about the Quebec situation yet everyone is really quite about it because deep down everyone knows that's the only way the NHL is coming back and their was No federal money put in. When people need to reference a bad funding model they think of Edmonton because of the city's contribution. But that won't be the case in Calgary. What the city does is up to them but I suspect it will be very low contribution and will only reflect in the construction of the field house and the surrounding area Not the stadium nor the Arena. Regardless the Federal nor Provincial government will send a dime for this project. The up roar (In Edmonton mainly) would be fierce from all over Alberta.
     
     
  #2835  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2015, 6:30 PM
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Conceptual images are coming in from the Calgary Flames STH Presentation:











Source: [email protected]
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  #2836  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2015, 6:32 PM
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As an Edmontonian, really happy for our friends down south...

2 comments;

- no provincial funding
- wish the roof was retractable, nothing like summer ball in the sun!!!
     
     
  #2837  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2015, 6:36 PM
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Concur, happy to see something moving forward.

2 comments;

- I hope they have plenty of tissue dispensers for Flames fans
- Please ensure that you have enough room for Eskimo fans to come watch our beat downs on you
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  #2838  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2015, 6:38 PM
sdimedru sdimedru is offline
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Concur, happy to see something moving forward.

2 comments;

- I hope they have plenty of tissue dispensers for Flames fans
- Please ensure that you have enough room for Eskimo fans to come watch our beat downs on you
     
     
  #2839  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2015, 6:39 PM
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Look at King try to masqaurade the project as first and foremost 'public facilities'. The "event centre" barley highlights the Flames as to which the place will be built to spec towards 100% to optimize use and profits for the Flames.

The way it is worded you would think the Flames will be playing in a rec centre.

This also goes for the Stamps and the "fieldhouse" but this is more needed as the Stampders do need some type of help to get something built. Plus it is alss realistic to see the Stampeders facility used by the public for the 15 weeks a year the Stampeders are not using it.

All in all its a trollish campaign. King just needs to be honest a strait up I don't think Calgarians are that dumb to buy this pony show. Just be real that you don't want to spend all your money and adress how you can get this thing built with a real public partnership (which would of course equal real revenue sharing, with the city getting a ROI from the Flames each year... good luck ).
     
     
  #2840  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2015, 6:44 PM
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Holy moly Calgary. Taking no prisoners with this proposal...wow.
     
     
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