ATLANTA TRANSIT (Marta, Beltline, Peachtree Streetcar, LovJoy Commuter, etc...)

[cybele]

Well I am no expert, I was just thinking of this.

The Impact of Rapid Rail Transit on Economic Development: The Case of
Atlanta’s MARTA

This paper uses a simultaneous model of census tract population and employment to study the economic impacts of Atlanta's MARTA rail transit system. The results indicated that MARTA has had no discernible impact on total population or employment in station areas, but it has altered the composition of employment in these areas in favor of the public sector.

[atl2phx]

Originally Posted by cybele

Well I am no expert, I was just thinking of this.

The Impact of Rapid Rail Transit on Economic Development: The Case of
Atlanta’s MARTA

This paper uses a simultaneous model of census tract population and employment to study the economic impacts of Atlanta's MARTA rail transit system. The results indicated that MARTA has had no discernible impact on total population or employment in station areas, but it has altered the composition of employment in these areas in favor of the public sector.

that report is based on data collected between 1980 and 1990, the rail system was essentially brand new at the time.

given that there has been at least two decades of commercial and residential development growth since then, (and at least a full decade of substantial growth within the city limits), it's probably time for an updated analysis.

[cybele]

Originally Posted by atl2phx

given that there has been at least two decades of commercial and residential development growth since then, (and at least a full decade of substantial growth within the city limits), it's probably time for an updated analysis.

Well what I got from these fellas is that what happened at some stations might have happened anyway and that nothing much happened at a good many other stations so it's hard to say how much was the MARTA and whatnot, but I could be getting that wrong.

Originally Posted by Rail Claimore

And all the more amazing that not one of those systems gets even half the ridership that MARTA heavy rail gets.

Well that is pretty impressive for the ATL, I would say.

[atl2phx]

Originally Posted by cybele

Well what I got from these fellas is that what happened at some stations might have happened anyway and that nothing much happened at a good many other stations so it's hard to say how much was the MARTA and whatnot, but I could be getting that wrong.

well, i'd say there's much more to the story than maybe you're willing to admit.

it's not my opinion, it was fact during much of the 1980's and 1990's that plenty of development was directed close to marta stations simply because it would be in proximity to mass transit.

case in point? go talk to some of the fellas that used to run bellsouth. here's an example of a company that explicitly followed an strategy that not only encouraged employees to take mass transit, but bellsouth also directed hundreds of millions of dollars into projects that were purposely located near marta stations so employees and visitors would have the option of convenient mass transit and easy access to the airport.

it wasn't by lark or fluke during the 80's/90's that bellsouth consolidated operations from all over atlanta into key nodes near marta stations:

a few fairly substantial examples:

1 - bellsouth headquarters/north avenue station
2 - bellsouth marketing operations/lingbergh center station
3 - bellsouth operations/lenox park/lenox station
4 - bellsouth park and ride/doraville center station (which enabled suburban employees to drive and park at doraville and take rail to one of the above employment centers).

bellsouth is only one big example, there are others including cousins.

[cybele]

Originally Posted by atl2phx

a few fairly substantial examples:

1 - bellsouth headquarters/north avenue station
2 - bellsouth marketing operations/lingbergh center station
3 - bellsouth operations/lenox park/lenox station
4 - bellsouth park and ride/doraville center station (which enabled suburban employees to drive and park at doraville and take rail to one of the above employment centers).

Well I'd have to agree with you on that. The phone company has really been big on the MARTA. I may have this wrong and it has been a while since I looked at the dang thing but it seems like they were saying it didn't amount to a hill of beans at a goodly number of stations, maybe somebody can look it up.

[WestsideATL]

Originally Posted by atl2phx

well, i'd say there's much more to the story than maybe you're willing to admit.

it's not my opinion, it was fact during much of the 1980's and 1990's that plenty of development was directed close to marta stations simply because it would be in proximity to mass transit.

case in point? go talk to some of the fellas that used to run bellsouth. here's an example of a company that explicitly followed an strategy that not only encouraged employees to take mass transit, but bellsouth also directed hundreds of millions of dollars into projects that were purposely located near marta stations so employees and visitors would have the option of convenient mass transit and easy access to the airport.

it wasn't by lark or fluke during the 80's/90's that bellsouth consolidated operations from all over atlanta into key nodes near marta stations:

a few fairly substantial examples:

1 - bellsouth headquarters/north avenue station
2 - bellsouth marketing operations/lingbergh center station
3 - bellsouth operations/lenox park/lenox station
4 - bellsouth park and ride/doraville center station (which enabled suburban employees to drive and park at doraville and take rail to one of the above employment centers).

bellsouth is only one big example, there are others including cousins.

The wierd thing about that BellSouth/MARTA arrangement is that MARTA really gave away the farm when they gave BellSouth the land for parking at the MARTA stations. There have been times where you can't find a parking space at Doraville, yet there's a huge BellSouth-only parking deck just sitting there practically empty. It seems like there's a ton of extra capacity up in the BellSouth-only lots at North Springs and Lindbergh too...

[cabasse]

guess i'm getting TOD and other high density development mixed up with "discernable economic impact"

[cybele]

Well I hate to see this happen.

Perdue transportation bill would delay transit a decade

[cybele]

Facts on the MARTA

Q&A on the News


By Lori Johnston

For the AJC

Q: How many buses and rail cars are in MARTA's fleet? How many people ride MARTA on a yearly basis, and how do we compare with other major cities?
More Atlanta area news »


A: MARTA has 338 rail cars, 590 buses and 175 paratransit Lift-Vans in its fleet. According to the American Public Transportation Association, MARTA is the ninth-largest transit system in the nation based on the number of unlinked passenger trips provided. The top 10 transit systems (according to an APTA report using survey information from 2007) are: MTA New York City Transit, 3.26 billion; Chicago Transit Authority, 499.5 million; Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transportation Authority, 495.4 million; Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority, 411.6 million; Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority, 357.6 million; Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority, 321.8 million; New Jersey Transit Corp., 268.3 million; San Francisco Municipal Railway, 206.5 million; Metropolitan Atlanta Rapid Transit Authority (MARTA), 147.5 million; and King County DOT in Seattle, 113.9 million.

[cybele]

Well it looks like the state government is trying to knock the GDOT out of the whole high speed light rail thing.

State Senators upset with GDOT’s lack of progress on alternative transportation

[STrek777]

Originally Posted by cybele

Well it looks like the state government is trying to knock the GDOT out of the whole high speed light rail thing.

State Senators upset with GDOT’s lack of progress on alternative transportation

Why weren't the train systems in America ever modified to reflect the "hub and spoke" system that the airlines follow? Remarkably it's still not to late to do so with the introduction of high speed rail! It is an extremely simple model and it would connect every state to each other, everyone would be able to share in the profits.

If Atlanta had the foresight it would build a massive train station to accommodate this and be known as a transportation hub of America. We already have a vast network of interstate and highways, we have the worlds busiest airport, and we could have one of America's largest train hubs.

Just start in Atlanta and build a line from Atlanta to each of the surrounding capitols: BNA, BHM, TLH, CAE, RDU! Each state could collect the taxes and revenues of the passengers boarding in their state. An interstate trasit fee could be collected from passengers that book travel from say BNA to TLH but transit ATL to help pay for upkeep of the tracks that those passengers would be using. It is a win win for all parties involved!

Each state could then be allowed to spend the revenues to invest in even more high speed rail. Atlanta to Athens, Macon, Savannah, Columbus, Dalton, etc. Each of those cities would get to keep the revenues they collect from passengers boarding in their cities and GA could impose an inner-state transit fee to cover the upkeep of those rails. Again win win for all involved!

Then those cities would have the revenue to invest in even more high speed rail: Savannah to Valdosta, Jacksonville, Charleston, Macon, etc.

See where I'm going with this?!?!?!

Capitol cities feed to cities feed to small cities and all are collecting revenue, all are generating tens of thousands of jobs, and high speed rail over time connects America. It's the "hub and spoke" system! Why it's not being considered is beyond me!

[BlindFatSnake]

"A pretty amazing resolution was introduced this week that basically describes the Georgia Department of Transportation as incompetent when it comes to developing anything other than highways, roads and bridges.


Because of GDOT’s inability to develop alternative transportation modes, the resolution calls for the transfer of the Intermodal Division to the Georgia Regional Transportation Authority.

The resolution specifically mentions that “Georgia has fallen behind other states in developing other methods of transportation, including high speed rail and commuter rail…”

it also implies that GDOT is good at building roads and it should concentrate “on more traditional types of transportation infrastructure…”

Hate to say "I told you so", but Georgia is a DUMB A$$ state when it comes to transporation alternatives... The Civil War is over. The South lost, and the state legislature should stop strangling the city of Atlanta because the NOOSE you use to hang the city will be the same noose used to strangle Georgia...

Damn right. I said it. Pun intended warts and all.

[cybele]

Well talk about falling behind. Here we can't even get a little streetcar going for a few miles, meanwhile the Chinese are working on putting a high speed rail network to Europe in the next 10 years. What in the Sam Hill is this country doing?

China to build high-speed rail link to Europe

London to Madrid in 8 hours? Beginning in 2012, the two cities should be linked by high-speed rail. You can already speed between London and Paris in a little more than two hours. This route will be connected to a new high-speed train to Madrid, which will be reachable within five-and-a-half hours.

But even more surprising was the news this week that China is in negotiations with 17 countries to build a high-speed rail network to Europe.

From London, you could visit Beijing in about two days' time, according to Daily Telegraph.

From Beijing, you could connect Singapore or Vietnam via planned high-speed railways.

[atl2phx]

Originally Posted by cybele

Well talk about falling behind. Here we can't even get a little streetcar going for a few miles, meanwhile the Chinese are working on putting a high speed rail network to Europe in the next 10 years. What in the Sam Hill is this country doing?

so lemme get this straight. you're 'generally' not supportive of light rail here in atlanta "because the working man is gonna get stuck with the bill" yet you're perplexed that the chinese are working on their high speed rail to europe to the chagrin of america?

were you for light rail before you were against it?

or were you against light rail before you were for it?

news flash: if america were to build a comparable rail network to what china is building in north america, your "working man" would be stuck with it alot more debt than he would if light rail is built anywhere in atlanta.

[ATLaffinity]

well

[plorenc]

Well, gosh darn.

[cybele]

Originally Posted by atl2phx

so lemme get this straight. you're 'generally' not supportive of light rail here in atlanta "because the working man is gonna get stuck with the bill" yet you're perplexed that the chinese are working on their high speed rail to europe to the chagrin of america?

Well when did I say I was against the light rail. All I'm saying is people in Atlanta has to drive, too, so you can't ignore the roads. You have to use your government money where it works for the most people, since they are the ones who paid it in the first place and are trying to do a job so they can keep paying in.

Remember the ATL has had the MARTA for 30 or 40 years so it's not like they don't have all kind of rails already. About 10 times more than any other place outside of New York City and Washington, DC and such. It's not like the MARTA is being overused up anyway, you can easily go to a lot of these stations and they're sitting there without a whole lot going on around them. All I'm saying is use up what you got first and when it's close to full you can start building new ones, but we are a long way from that.

[Curious Atlantan]

Originally Posted by cybele

Well when did I say I was against the light rail. All I'm saying is people in Atlanta has to drive, too, so you can't ignore the roads. You have to use your government money where it works for the most people, since they are the ones who paid it in the first place and are trying to do a job so they can keep paying in.

Remember the ATL has had the MARTA for 30 or 40 years so it's not like they don't have all kind of rails already. About 10 times more than any other place outside of New York City and Washington, DC and such. It's not like the MARTA is being overused up anyway, you can easily go to a lot of these stations and they're sitting there without a whole lot going on around them. All I'm saying is use up what you got first and when it's close to full you can start building new ones, but we are a long way from that.

"Ignore the roads" that sounds funny for a city with sixteen lane highways

[atl2phx]

Originally Posted by cybele

Remember the ATL has had the MARTA for 30 or 40 years so it's not like they don't have all kind of rails already. About 10 times more than any other place outside of New York City and Washington, DC and such. It's not like the MARTA is being overused up anyway, you can easily go to a lot of these stations and they're sitting there without a whole lot going on around them. All I'm saying is use up what you got first and when it's close to full you can start building new ones, but we are a long way from that.

naturally, marta was set up to be a constrained system. it was set up to fail. kindof like your parents buying you a big wheel and saying "hey there little fella/gal, there ya go, you're set for life now with that big ole new plastic big wheel, you can just tool around allover the darn city with that thing for life."

it's the poor leadership and lack of executive direction in the state of georgia since the 1980's that has allowed marta to become a remnant of what it could have been and was originally intended. look to the metro in DC to see what could have been.

[cybele]

Originally Posted by atl2phx

naturally, marta was set up to be a constrained system. it was set up to fail. kindof like your parents buying you a big wheel and saying "hey there little fella/gal, there ya go, you're set for life now with that big ole new plastic big wheel, you can just tool around allover the darn city with that thing for life."

it's the poor leadership and lack of executive direction in the state of georgia since the 1980's that has allowed marta to become a remnant of what it could have been and was originally intended. look to the metro in DC to see what could have been.

Well it's not like the MARTA doesn't go to places and doesn't have a lot more room. I have never counted by there is probably something like 50 stations or thereabouts.

The thing is, a whole mess of them have never been built up at all so it's not even close to running out of room. You could add onto the ATL for 100 years along the MARTA and you'd still have plenty. Yes that north line is getting pretty busy around the Perimeter and midtown and whatnot, but go out on any of those other lines and there are a million places to build up. Why not use this big old system we've got and get it making money and so forth and when it's done then look into spending umpteen billion more dollars on more lines. Seems like that would be the smart way to go at it.