Public Disorder & the Decline of Vancouver's Livability

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by cairnstone

That mentality does not hold water. as booze is a drug and sold everywhere but the city is not filled with drunks falling down in the streets. Having drugs decriminalized is not making more addicts. Having mental health or health issues is what is a gateway to usage. Smoking weed was supposed to be the gateway drug to hard drugs. THis is all US bullshit drug policy

I would agree but even the "safe" supply of drugs like meth can turn your brain to mush.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I would agree but even the "safe" supply of drugs like meth can turn your brain to mush.

Yes, there is no question alcohol can make people behave violently but the behaviour of some on drugs is next level.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I would agree but even the "safe" supply of drugs like meth can turn your brain to mush.

It's okay they can sue the government in 10 years about allowing them to use it.

[SpongeG]

In Surrey, I see multiple people every day bent over pushing something, usually a shopping cart. There is a new shelter or supportive housing next to the Superstore on 104th near Guildford, for a few weeks now the glass door has been broken, but in the surrounding area there are always people huddled around doing drugs, you see them doing them in the sports fields behind the building with kids playing baseball or soccer or whatever it is that day. Pretty shameless.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

How many people die from alcohol overdoses? If they do, all liquor stores should be shut down and liquor banned.

You really didn't know alcohol can kill people? In 2019 "Data from the Canadian Institute for Health Information (CIHI) show 10 Canadians die in hospital every day from harm caused by substance use, and 75 per cent of those deaths are related to alcohol." "The CIHI data say that between 2017 and 2018, British Columbia had 361 alcohol-related hospitalizations every day per 100,000 people, the highest of all the provinces"[Global]

It costs a fortune in assocaited healthcare and other costs - way worse than opioids, for example "Adam Sherk, a researcher at the Canadian Centre for Substance Use Research, said a study by the centre last year showed that compared with opioids, the economic costs of alcohol use are up to 10 times higher and related to criminal justice issues, lost productivity and health care." In 2018 a study by the Canadian Centre on Substance Use and Addiction said "Alcohol consumption in Canada was associated with approximately 15 000 preventable deaths, 90 000 preventable hospital admissions". (The difference between the three to four thousand people dying from alcohol use, and the 15,000 total deaths, are all the innocent people killed by drunk drivers, or in domestic violence when drunk etc. etc.).

So now you know the statistics, you want alcohol prohibition? That's not going to play well with your favourite local political party: ABC Vancouver to permanently allow alcohol consumption in parks, will initiate pilot program allowing alcohol on Vancouver beaches

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

How many people die from alcohol overdoses? If they do, all liquor stores should be shut down and liquor banned.

How do you feel about people who shotgun a half litre can of beer in public? Asking for a friend.

[NewfBC]

...wrong thread...

[Vin]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

LOL another stunning display of ignorance by Vin. Truly a new breakthrough in idiocy.

Yeah, coming from someone who literally wants to legalize drugs and turn as many people as possible into zombies: individuals who can no longer have the mental capacity to work, overdose on the streets, commit crime to feed their habit, and do all the ills that is so rampant in our society today. I know you are an excellent name caller: sounds like the typical school bully loser.

If society is at least cognizant of the fact that alcoholics are at least not as wasted as a human can possibly get, then I'm OK with being ignorant. Otherwise, by all means, ban all liquor stores: I'm all for it if it is causing society so much harm.

Originally Posted by Changing City

How do you feel about people who shotgun a half litre can of beer in public? Asking for a friend.

If he starts committing crime after downing that much beer to feed his drinking habit or even rob a grocery store because he can no longer afford to work, then please put himself in jail to sober up: just replying for a friend.

Originally Posted by Changing City

You really didn't know alcohol can kill people? In 2019 "Data from the Canadian Institute for Health Information (CIHI) show 10 Canadians die in hospital every day from harm caused by substance use, and 75 per cent of those deaths are related to alcohol." "The CIHI data say that between 2017 and 2018, British Columbia had 361 alcohol-related hospitalizations every day per 100,000 people, the highest of all the provinces"[Global]

It costs a fortune in assocaited healthcare and other costs - way worse than opioids, for example "Adam Sherk, a researcher at the Canadian Centre for Substance Use Research, said a study by the centre last year showed that compared with opioids, the economic costs of alcohol use are up to 10 times higher and related to criminal justice issues, lost productivity and health care." In 2018 a study by the Canadian Centre on Substance Use and Addiction said "Alcohol consumption in Canada was associated with approximately 15 000 preventable deaths, 90 000 preventable hospital admissions". (The difference between the three to four thousand people dying from alcohol use, and the 15,000 total deaths, are all the innocent people killed by drunk drivers, or in domestic violence when drunk etc. etc.).

So now you know the statistics, you want alcohol prohibition? That's not going to play well with your favourite local political party: ABC Vancouver to permanently allow alcohol consumption in parks, will initiate pilot program allowing alcohol on Vancouver beaches

So how do you propose solving the problem? Alcohol is already legalized. Should we legalize more addictive substance so that healthcare costs can blow up even more? You really start making sense here.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

So how do you propose solving the problem? Alcohol is already legalized. Should we legalize more addictive substance so that healthcare costs can blow up even more? You really start making sense here.

Er, we de-criminalized possession of drugs. We need to spend more money on treatment opportunities, and we need more widespread testing availability, and safe supply for a lot more than the 5,000 people so far signed up.

In the meantime, your favourite mayor is setting a hell of an example of appropriate behaviour, and how to responsibly consume an addictive substance.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Also, more affordable housing, social housing and shelters so we can get people off the street (or prevent them from being on the street in the first place) before many of them start trying drugs at all.

Originally Posted by Vin

Yeah, coming from someone who literally wants to legalize drugs and turn as many people as possible into zombies...

A) Drugs are already legal in BC (in small doses) as of last year.
B) You're just making things up again - Warren literally implies the opposite opinion at the top of the page.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Vin

Yeah, coming from someone who literally wants to legalize drugs and turn as many people as possible into zombies: individuals who can no longer have the mental capacity to work, overdose on the streets, commit crime to feed their habit, and do all the ills that is so rampant in our society today. I know you are an excellent name caller: sounds like the typical school bully loser.

What the fuck are you babbling about? You're so full of shit it's coming out your eyes.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Er, we de-criminalized possession of drugs. We need to spend more money on treatment opportunities, and we need more widespread testing availability, and safe supply for a lot more than the 5,000 people so far signed up.

In the meantime, your favourite mayor is setting a hell of an example of appropriate behaviour, and how to responsibly consume an addictive substance.

So much BS just to prop up certain industries that heavily rely on the chaos to thrive.

Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/07/portugal-drugs-decriminalization-heroin-crack/
PORTO, Portugal — Addiction haunts the recesses of this ancient port city, as people with gaunt, clumsy hands lift crack pipes to lips, syringes to veins. Authorities are sealing off warren-like alleyways with iron bars and fencing in parks to halt the spread of encampments. A siege mentality is taking root in nearby enclaves of pricey condos and multimillion-euro homes.
Portugal decriminalized all drug use, including marijuana, cocaine and heroin, in an experiment that inspired similar efforts elsewhere, but now police are blaming a spike in the number of people who use drugs for a rise in crime. In one neighborhood, state-issued paraphernalia — powder-blue syringe caps, packets of citric acid for diluting heroin — litters sidewalks outside an elementary school.

Overdose rates have hit 12-year highs and almost doubled in Lisbon from 2019 to 2023. Sewage samples in Lisbon show cocaine and ketamine detection is now among the highest in Europe, with elevated weekend rates suggesting party-heavy usage. In Porto, the collection of drug-related debris from city streets surged 24 percent between 2021 and 2022, with this year on track to far outpace the last. Crime — including robbery in public spaces — spiked 14 percent from 2021 to 2022, a rise police blame partly on increased drug use.

Elsewhere in the world, places implementing decriminalization are confronting challenges of their own. In Oregon — where the policy took effect in early 2021 openly citing Portugal as a model — attempts to funnel people with addiction from jail to rehabilitation have had a rough start. Police have shown little interest in handing out toothless citations for drug use, grants for treatment have lagged, and extremely few people are seeking voluntary rehabilitation. Meanwhile, overdoses this year in Portland, the state’s largest city, have surged 46 percent.

If you think this is working, something is really really wrong with you.

And who's my supposed "favourite mayor", and what "appropriate behaviour" example are you referring to?

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Also, more affordable housing, social housing and shelters so we can get people off the street (or prevent them from being on the street in the first place) before many of them start trying drugs at all.



A) Drugs are already legal in BC (in small doses) as of last year.

Yup, and that's why homelessness and drug addition, as well as death rates related to overdosing, are all on the rise. See a correlation here?

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

What the fuck are you babbling about? You're so full of shit it's coming out your eyes.

Mr foul-mouth is triggered yet again.

[Vin]

Forget the Canucks ever winning the Stanley Park, when it comes to drug issues, we are no doubt the champion!

Opinion: The fentanyl response in BC has been an absolute disgrace
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/fentanyl-response-bc-opinion
So much so that I am not sure we all know the facts:

* BC has more deaths per capita from apparent opioid toxicity than any other province in Canada;
* 2023 is on pace to be BC’s deadliest year on record;
* BC leads provinces when it comes to drugs deaths in Canada and adds to the shockingly high number of deaths across North America;
* This is a North America-wide problem, but, as Daphne Bramham put it quite well in a recent column for the Vancouver Sun, we are one of the worst-hit jurisdictions, and have decided to turn our province into a walking test.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Vin

Yup, and that's why homelessness and drug addition, as well as death rates related to overdosing, are all on the rise. See a correlation here?

They've been on the rise since Christy Clark let all the fentanyl dealers and money launderers into BC and hyperinflated the housing market back in 2014-17 (i.e. well before fall 2022 when drugs were legalized).

Originally Posted by Vin

Forget the Canucks ever winning the Stanley Park, when it comes to drug issues, we are no doubt the champion!

It's a Cup, not a park. And DailyHive's owner's op-eds are not a reliable source of information.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

They've been on the rise since Christy Clark let all the fentanyl dealers and money launderers into BC and hyperinflated the housing market back in 2014-17 (i.e. well before fall 2022 when drugs were legalized).

It's a Cup, not a park. And DailyHive's owner's op-eds are not a reliable source of information.

My limited understanding of their performance led me to believe that the Canucks had a better chance of winning the Stanley Park, than the Stanley Cup.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

So much BS just to prop up certain industries that heavily rely on the chaos to thrive.

And who's my supposed "favourite mayor", and what "appropriate behaviour" example are you referring to?

Oh, you're so fickle. Is the bromance over? What happened to "Go ABC, and let's keep it up!" Is it the beer-chugging? (Or the vodka cream soda Cllr Klassen downed? The plan to make drinking easier? The drinking in parks? The wine in grocery stores? (I'm sensing an ABC theme here). The closing down Temporary Modular Housing? I know you approved of forcing all the tents off East Hastings into the rest of the neighbourhood when there weren't (and still aren't) enough placements in permanent housing, so it can't be that.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Oh, you're so fickle. Is the bromance over? What happened to "Go ABC, and let's keep it up!" Is it the beer-chugging? (Or the vodka cream soda Cllr Klassen downed? The plan to make drinking easier? The drinking in parks? The wine in grocery stores? (I'm sensing an ABC theme here). The closing down Temporary Modular Housing? I know you approved of forcing all the tents off East Hastings into the rest of the neighbourhood when there weren't (and still aren't) enough placements in permanent housing, so it can't be that.

Sounds like you're a supporter of No Fun City!

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Sounds like you're a supporter of No Fun City!

Where did you see me state my opinion about any of ABCs policies on 'Fun" (which seems to be mainly drinking so far)? I'm not the poster who said "all liquor stores should be shut down and liquor banned"!

(I'm not particularly impressed with Mayor Sim, or ABC so far. I haven't seen any indication of action on his promise on getting development approved quicker. And he didn't have a plan to house the East Hastings tents, so now the street is pretty much the same, but without tents, and the gas bottles are presumably scattered in tents that are now all over the neighbourhood. And closing down the temporary modular leases will just increase the homelessness problem.)

[SpongeG]

are they closing the temporary housing down though? I know a non-ABC council member made a big deal about something a little bit the sky is falling, and an ABC councilor said they would be looking at things as the leases come up to expire, many of them have quite a few years left on their leases and they could be renewed they just didn't want to blanket renew leases and will deal with them as they need to.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

are they closing the temporary housing down though? I know a non-ABC council member made a big deal about something a little bit the sky is falling, and an ABC councilor said they would be looking at things as the leases come up to expire, many of them have quite a few years left on their leases and they could be renewed they just didn't want to blanket renew leases and will deal with them as they need to.

They're closing the Larwill Park site in July, and not offering any alternate location for the buildings to be re-erected. The leases won't be renewed. Cllr Boyle proposed a motion that "asked city staff to look at how to extend the leases that are expiring between 2024 and 2028, while also looking into the possibility of moving existing projects to places where they have the option of remaining longer term."

"The motion was defeated by Mayor Ken Sim and the slate of ABC councillors, who said during the meeting that their major concern was that prolonging the use of these sites for temporary modular housing would impede the city's ability to use the same sites for more units of permanent affordable housing. ABC Coun. Brian Montague said he thinks the city should be moving away from this type of housing altogether. "Temporary modular housing, I don't believe is the answer. I don't believe it's good policy," he said."

"Not all of those sites will be used for social or could be used for social housing," City Manager Paul Mochrie said when he was asked to estimate how many units of permanent, affordable housing could be built on the sites currently occupied by temporary modular housing."

[CTV]