Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by skyscraperaccount

"When exiting the event, 9,000 customers used Pimisi Station and another 4,400 customers travelled westbound via bus," Howarth said.

Why?

I assume that rather than having people take the train two stops and transfer, they probably extended the bus lines to start at Pimisi.

[skyscraperaccount]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I assume that rather than having people take the train two stops and transfer, they probably extended the bus lines to start at Pimisi.

That would make some sense. OC being proactive about service <shocked>

[Lakeofthewood]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I assume that rather than having people take the train two stops and transfer, they probably extended the bus lines to start at Pimisi.

Yup yup, this is the reason. I think they formally stated that somewhere during Bluesfest last year.

The numerous people that are holding signs for leaving Bluesfest say East with a train logo, and West with a bus logo. So if you're going westbound it's pretty clear you're supposed to be on the bus unless you live near one of the two LRT stations.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Lakeofthewood

Yup yup, this is the reason. I think they formally stated that somewhere during Bluesfest last year.

The numerous people that are holding signs for leaving Bluesfest say East with a train logo, and West with a bus logo. So if you're going westbound it's pretty clear you're supposed to be on the bus unless you live near one of the two LRT stations.

Imagine if they had to do that in Toronto after the parade for the Raptors?

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Imagine if they had to do that in Toronto after the parade for the Raptors?

You could still take a westbound train at Pimisi if you wanted to. The buses were just to save people a transfer at Tunney's.

Toronto, on an almost weekly basis, deals with situations on transit that are so chaotic they would warrant a public inquiry in Ottawa. It's so funny to me when people here act like the TTC subway is some well oiled machine. Just look at the lineup for shuttle buses that stretched almost 500m after the stabbing on the subway last week.

[skyscraperaccount]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Imagine if they had to do that in Toronto after the parade for the Raptors?

The TTC doesn't terminate 2 or 3 stops from Union station though....I'm assuming the buses will be dropped with the opening of Stage 2

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by skyscraperaccount

The TTC doesn't terminate 2 or 3 stops from Union station though....I'm assuming the buses will be dropped with the opening of Stage 2

It's also fairly normal to supplement subway service with extra bus service after a big event. Not sure why people act like it has to be all or nothing for the O-Train to be successful. You don't plan a transit system around the largest theoretical event. TTC boosted bus service downtown during the Raptors parade.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by skyscraperaccount

The TTC doesn't terminate 2 or 3 stops from Union station though....I'm assuming the buses will be dropped with the opening of Stage 2

Did they prevent people from getting on at Downsview when the SarsStock happened?

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Are they achieving 3 minute headways? I think it's way above that though maybe the lower demand and shortage of trains. Wouldn't interlining also make that trickier as you need to zip the two lines together? Whenever I'm on routes that do that in other cities they seem to bunch up and three trains in a row come and then a longer wait (If the theoretical frequency is 2 minutes this is less of an issue as you only wait 5). I'd guess we end up with 8-10 minute peak and 12 minute off peak.

There's currently no shortage of trains, but like you said there's just not as much ridership demand and therefore no reason for OC Transpo to put more trains into service. It conveniently also gives RTG a lot of room to breathe and get their act together before Stage 2 opens.

Train bunching happens a lot in cities that have less automated train control systems. Ottawa's trains can effectively drive themselves, and the control system is able to precisely space trains apart to maintain headways. This is especially effective when recovering from service disruptions where trains get really bunched up, and has been demonstrated regularly in Ottawa.

[OTownandDown]

The craziest interlining I've ever seen was in Chicago around the downtown loop where six lines operate on and enter-exit one loop. When last I was there, the trains were fully manual, and there were some stops waiting for cross-traffic. But it wasn't so bad.
Interlining is necessary for large systems to operate effectively and get to far-flung suburbia at a reasonable cost.

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

There's currently no shortage of trains, but like you said there's just not as much ridership demand and therefore no reason for OC Transpo to put more trains into service. It conveniently also gives RTG a lot of room to breathe and get their act together before Stage 2 opens.

Train bunching happens a lot in cities that have less automated train control systems. Ottawa's trains can effectively drive themselves, and the control system is able to precisely space trains apart to maintain headways. This is especially effective when recovering from service disruptions where trains get really bunched up, and has been demonstrated regularly in Ottawa.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

The craziest interlining I've ever seen was in Chicago around the downtown loop where six lines operate on and enter-exit one loop. When last I was there, the trains were fully manual, and there were some stops waiting for cross-traffic. But it wasn't so bad.
Interlining is necessary for large systems to operate effectively and get to far-flung suburbia at a reasonable cost.

Interlining is good if you must do it to save money. However, it is much better to remove those interlines if possible. For example,build a tunnel close to the 417 and reroute one branch on it.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

Interlining is necessary for large systems to operate effectively and get to far-flung suburbia at a reasonable cost.

It really depends what is driving your costs. In the modern era it is likely more expensive to have longer trains, longer and wider stations to handle more people and more people waiting with full loads move through the waiting crowd (which are particularly expensive if the growth is underground and governed by the cube law), more extensive evacuation facilities.

Learning from Chicago that interlining is the solution, not building above ground/at grade is learning the wrong lesson imo.

[OTownandDown]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

It really depends what is driving your costs. In the modern era it is likely more expensive to have longer trains, longer and wider stations to handle more people and more people waiting with full loads move through the waiting crowd (which are particularly expensive if the growth is underground and governed by the cube law), more extensive evacuation facilities.

Learning from Chicago that interlining is the solution, not building above ground/at grade is learning the wrong lesson imo.

Are we saying that it's cheaper to have seven lines running through seven parallel lines (14 tracks) in a downtown tunnel, if those lines parallel eachother for 20% of their route? Or are we saying we should just make people transfer ever time one line meets another?

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

Are we saying that it's cheaper to have seven lines running through seven parallel lines (14 tracks) in a downtown tunnel, if those lines parallel eachother for 20% of their route? Or are we saying we should just make people transfer ever time one line meets another?

Would Ottawa ever need 7 lines?

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Would Ottawa ever need 7 lines?

We'll already have four by 2026.

[originalmuffins]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

We'll already have four by 2026.

To add on this, the central loop between Parliament and Gatineau would be another line. Plus there is a possibility of that QED Tramway or Bank Street Tunnel which would be a 6th line. But the former is definitely more realistic in the next 10 years, whereas the latter would probably not be seen for another 20 years at least (or not at all). But 5-6 is definitely possible for Ottawa.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

We'll already have four by 2026.

I'm confused. What 4 lines will be in service by 2026?

[7empest]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I'm confused. What 4 lines will be in service by 2026?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBrFnJ91hV0

[vtecyo]

Originally Posted by 7empest

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBrFnJ91hV0

I think there's confusion between physical train tracks and train lines.

Line 1 and 3 will use the same double tracked route across the city - until they physically split in the west end at Lincoln Fields.

Eastbound from Lincoln Fields line 1 and 3 will go to the exact same stops all the way out to Trim station in Orleans.

This is a more detailed illustration
https://www.octranspo.com/en/news/article/welcome-to-your-future-otrain-network/

[skyscraperaccount]

Originally Posted by vtecyo

I think there's confusion between physical train tracks and train lines.

Line 1 and 3 will use the same double tracked route across the city - until they physically split in the west end at Lincoln Fields.

Eastbound from Lincoln Fields line 1 and 3 will go to the exact same stops all the way out to Trim station in Orleans.

This is a more detailed illustration
https://www.octranspo.com/en/news/article/welcome-to-your-future-otrain-network/

What is going on in the graphic on the east end in that video lol. And calling the airport "line" anything other than a stump is disingenuous.