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  #41  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2022, 11:54 AM
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rocketphish rocketphish is offline
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Post UDRP Resubmission (October 24, 2022)

https://devapps.ottawa.ca/en/applications/D02-02-21-0093/details

The following changes have been made to the originally proposed redevelopment of the lands in response to the comments received from the technical review and feedback from public engagement events:
  • Building Heights have been reduced from 22 and 28 storeys to 16 and 25 storeys;
  • Podium heights have been reduced from six (6) storeys to four (4) storeys;
  • Rear (north) Setbacks have been adjusted as follows:
    • The west building has been set back 11.5 metres from the north property line compared to the 12.4 metres originally proposed; and,
    • The east building has been set back 3.3 metres from the future park compared to the 1.5 metres originally proposed.
  • The East Tower has been pulled closer to Carling Avenue, removing the previously proposed open space at the corner of Parkdale and Carling while preserving a 5-metre setback to provide ample sidewalk space;
  • Stepbacks have been added: each tower now has two (2) stepbacks from the north instead of the originally proposed one (1) stepback.
  • Tower separation has been increased from 20 metres to 21 metres;
  • Bicycle parking has increased from 342 spaces (0.74 spaces/ dwelling) to 399 spaces (0.96 spaces/ dwelling).
  • Garbage/ move-in lane has been slightly reconfigured.





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  #42  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2022, 12:47 PM
SL123 SL123 is offline
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This one looks great! I like the red brick podium and the plaza between the 2 buildings. So much potential to make Carling big modern Urban corridor. Keep those Carling project coming.
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  #43  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2022, 1:31 PM
Dzingle Bells Dzingle Bells is offline
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STILL no commercial at grade, ugh. other than that, get this built!
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  #44  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2022, 2:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SL123 View Post
This one looks great! I like the red brick podium and the plaza between the 2 buildings. So much potential to make Carling big modern Urban corridor. Keep those Carling project coming.
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Originally Posted by Dzingle Bells View Post
STILL no commercial at grade, ugh. other than that, get this built!
Agreed. Certainly looks better than before, but the lack of commercial space irks me. Can't have a truly urban corridor if much of it has no commercial activity. And this replacing a medical building, at least include space for a pharmacy, if not medical clinics as well. Where are all these businesses going? Have they already left?
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  #45  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2022, 10:10 PM
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Taggart reduces proposed height of two-tower Carling Avenue residential complex
https://obj.ca/article/real-estate/resid...SY4HIL4quNoYS3vND15X-i-PNV6uElBfFjk8x-rg

"He added that the development was still “many years away” from being launched, noting that tenants in the existing office building still have leases in place and would need time to relocate."
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  #46  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2022, 1:19 AM
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Originally Posted by SL123 View Post
Taggart reduces proposed height of two-tower Carling Avenue residential complex
https://obj.ca/article/real-estate/resid...proposed-height-two-tower-carling-avenue

"He added that the development was still “many years away” from being launched, noting that tenants in the existing office building still have leases in place and would need time to relocate."
Taggart reduces proposed height of two-tower Carling Avenue residential complex

By: David Sali, OBJ
Oct 31, 2022 3:16pm EDT


A developer has scaled back its proposal to construct two residential towers near the Ottawa Hospital’s Civic campus after complaints the buildings would cause traffic headaches and overshadow nearby homes.

Taggart Realty Management recently filed a revised application with the city that would see the builder reduce the height of the proposed highrises at 1081 Carling Ave. from 22 and 28 storeys to 16 and 25 storeys.

Under the revamped plan, the two-tower housing complex just east of Parkdale Avenue would feature a total of 414 residential units, down from 460 in the original proposal.

Taggart also says it plans to cut the height of the buildings’ podiums from six storeys to four. Meanwhile, the east tower is being moved closer to Carling Avenue while both highrises’ north setbacks have been slightly adjusted. Each building will now have two stepbacks on the north side as opposed to the single stepbacks proposed in the initial application.

In addition, there would be 21 metres of separation between the towers, up from 20 metres in the original plan.

The developer is also adding more bicycle parking, boosting the number of spots from 342 to 399. The number of vehicle parking spaces in the proposed four-level underground garage would be reduced slightly from 340 to 322.

Taggart says the changes are aimed at addressing resident and city staff concerns that the highrises in the original proposal were too tall for the one-acre footprint.

In its updated application filed earlier this month, the builder says the rejigged development plan “results in fewer shadow impacts” due to the project’s decreased height and multiple stepbacks.

“The revised design has more slender towers with smaller tower floorplates, minimizing the long shadows cast by the development,” the application prepared by planning consultant Fotenn says.

Taggart filed its initial proposal more than a year ago to tear down the eight-storey office building that now occupies the site and replace it with the new development.

Current zoning rules limit buildings on the property to nine storeys. But in its original development application, Taggart argued the property is “underutilized” and large enough to accommodate much taller buildings.

“While we understand this is a big change from the existing site use, we feel the site warrants the proposed development,” Taggart president Jeff Parkes said in an email to OBJ last September.

Parkes said the site is ideal for residential highrises due to its location on a main arterial road and its proximity to multiple transit stops and a potential future LRT station at the intersection of Carling and Parkdale. He said the site “offers the opportunity for a level of intensification that is rare in the core of the city.”

But Kitchissippi Coun. Jeff Leiper, who represents the area, told OBJ last fall he was worried a development of that scale would have a “major shadow impact” on the neighbourhood directly north of the site, which consists mostly of single and semi-detached houses.

“I’m having a really difficult time imagining two towers of that height,” he said. “We all know additional density along Carling is coming, but it doesn’t have to be the sky is the limit. This would be a different discussion if they were proposing a single, 15-to-20-storey tower with some substantial buffering to the adjacent lowrise neighbourhood.”

At the time of the original proposal, Parkes said the firm had yet to determine whether the housing units would be rental apartments or condominiums or if the site would include a commercial component.

He added that the development was still “many years away” from being launched, noting that tenants in the existing office building still have leases in place and would need time to relocate.

In the latest revised application, Taggart said that while city staff want to see retail space on the ground floor of the buildings, the performance of tenants in the existing office complex suggests that “commercial uses are not currently viable” at the site.

However, the developer said it was “hopeful to find a commercial tenant for this space in one or both towers.” Taggart said the ground floors are currently planned as amenity areas with taller five-metre ceilings that could be converted into retail space “should the market allow it.”

https://www.obj.ca/article/real-estate/r...proposed-height-two-tower-carling-avenue
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  #47  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2022, 1:45 AM
Urbanarchit Urbanarchit is offline
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Pretty much anyone within the built-up areas of Ottawa are within 2 kilometers of a grocery store or Shoppers. That doesn't make an area walkable.
As a long-term nearby resident, I agree. I've walked and biked and bused to Westgate and Hampton Park Plaza (where the Food Basics is) and it's not a pleasant nor walkable route. Honestly, I'd consider taking the bus to get there if there weren't so unreliable and expensive for the service - and the grocery store is far enough that I wouldn't want to walk with groceries.

When I lived in Montreal, I was 2.5 blocks from a grocery store, and even carrying a full resuable bag was heavy enough that going many blocks farther would have sucked more (especially in winter). You could get those rolling bags, but still, this is not a walkable route. You have to walk along a wide, busy and fast-moving stroad, crossing a weird and busy intersection at both Holland and Island Park before crossing Merivale to get to Westgate. You would have to walk further under the Queensway and cross the offramps to get to the parking lot to the Food Basics. Then do it in reverse to return on. It feels a lot different than the 2km walk one would do down West Wellington. It is for sure not a walkable area.

If I were to move into this building, I would be getting a car as I'm sure most people moving into this building would do. Height and density for the sake of it regardless of location does not make for good, thoughtful urban planning.
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  #48  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2022, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SL123 View Post
Taggart reduces proposed height of two-tower Carling Avenue residential complex
https://obj.ca/article/real-estate/resid...SY4HIL4quNoYS3vND15X-i-PNV6uElBfFjk8x-rg

"He added that the development was still “many years away” from being launched, noting that tenants in the existing office building still have leases in place and would need time to relocate."
Timeline probably won't work, but an ideal scenario might be that after the Civic moves, part of the old Civic welcomes the medical tenants from that building. Better yet if the they build a retail block as part of the project for other essentials.

As Urbanarchit was saying, improved and reliable bus service along Carling would go a long way. Built that BRT-Lite that's been planned for years.
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  #49  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2023, 2:31 PM
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  #50  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2023, 2:53 PM
SL123 SL123 is offline
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The towers are now 27 & 16
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  #51  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2023, 2:56 PM
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The towers are now 27 & 16
of course. Was that part of the UDRP's report? "The optimal eight for a tower of world class proportions is 27 floors of technical beauty".
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  #52  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2023, 3:35 PM
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"In response to the second round of comments received, the proposed development has been revised, primarily to improve the transition to the north. The east tower has been revised to step back above the fourth and ninth storeys where it previously stepped back above the fourth and 12th storeys. The northwest corner of the tower portion of the building has also been revised to provide a full 20 metres of separation to the shared property line with 425 Hamilton Avenue North. The height of the east tower has been revised from 25 to 27 storeys. The west tower has been revised to simplify the step backs and maintains the previously proposed height of 16 storeys."

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  #53  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2023, 9:46 PM
Ottawacurious Ottawacurious is offline
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Office of Councillor Jeff Leiper, Kitchissippi Ward, Ottawa | (613) 580-2485 | [email protected]


1081 Carling heading to committee

http://kitchissippiward.ca/content/1081-carling-heading-committee

On August 16, the Taggart proposal for two high-rise buildings at the corner of Parkdale and Carling (where the medical building is now) is expected to move ahead to a Planning and Housing Committee vote. I will likely support the proposal when it is in front of us and want to provide my analysis here.

When this proposal was first made, I considered it too dense with two towers. I still do. It’s hard for me to envision two towers in a single block, and I think many residents agree. The towers in their initial form also had an inadequate transition to the surrounding low-rise neighbourhood. Transition is important to me and is a frequent foundation of my arguments when I’ve opposed towers in past.

With persistent pressure from myself and from the Civic Hospital Neighbourhood Association working with the City planners to provide pushback, the proposal has now been re-configured. It is still two towers, but they are slightly better offset, and the tower closest to low-rise housing has been made significantly shorter than previously. The transition, particularly for the east tower on the north side, is still in my view too abrupt. I am less concerned about the height than I am the lack of stepbacks on that east tower.

To date, Planning Staff have provided indications that the proposal in its current form meets the policies and guidelines that are supposed to guide development in Ontario and Ottawa. I expect that when this file lands on a Planning and Housing Committee agenda, it will be with a recommendation to the committee and Council to approve the sought-after re-zoning.

I don’t like the development, but I also can’t disagree with staff’s assessment.

I’ve written about it before, but it probably can’t be stressed too often that municipalities in Ontario don’t have the final say on land use planning. I am absolutely confident that if Council refuses this development that the developer will take it to the Ontario Land Tribunal. I’ve written in recent weeks about developments where the City is unable to even find a planner willing to take our case, and you’ve read about the Province’s drive to add housing, even to the point of issuing Ministerial Zoning Orders to cities to dictate denser, taller housing than they might otherwise approve.

Viewing this file through the eyes of a member of the Ontario Land Tribunal, I cannot fathom that it would uphold a Council refusal in this case when our own planners have laid out a case for how it conforms to the Provincial Policy Statement and our own Official Plan.

Disagreement on transition

There is, though, a wrinkle. I’m not going to take residents into the weeds, but the CHNA and its capable, respected lawyer have made a very compelling case that, in fact, the proposal does not conform to explicit policies contained within the Official Plan. One of the key requirements contained within our plan for tall buildings in locations like this is that they provide an appropriate transition to the adjacent low-rise neighbourhood. If one follows the letter of the OP, reading each word with its plain-language meaning, the logical conclusion is that developments like these must provide a 45-degree “angular plane” from adjacent properties. I won’t delve far into it, but it means essentially that from the property line the height of the development can’t rise at an angle steeper than 45 degrees, and that stepbacks have to be introduced that constrain the height along that slope line. No one disagrees that the east tower fails utterly to achieve a 45-degree angular plane. The west tower is very close, but also fails to achieve it.

The CHNA’s legitimate argument is that planners are required to adhere to a plain language interpretation of the Official Plan and would thus be bound to recommend refusal of this proposal.

The interpretation that planners have made in this case, though, is that the 45-degree angular plan is not, in fact, a hard-and-fast rule to which every development must comply (unless an Official Plan amendment is sought). Their view is that an appropriate transition can be achieved through multiple approaches, and that the Official Plan was intended to provide a general requirement for transition without being prescriptive about how that is to be achieved. In this case, they consider that the developer’s reduction in the height of the podium and inclusion of a public pocket park between the east tower and adjacent low-rise house constitute the necessary mitigation.

I have, after weeks of turning it over, ultimately decided to support staff in their interpretation. I do not believe that the Official Plan is the appropriate place to set out very specific hard-and-fast quantitative rules. That’s the place of secondary plans and even more appropriately in zoning. I believe the language in the OP requires clarification, but I do not believe that anyone involved in drafting or approving the OP meant for the 45-degree angular plane to be a go/no-go consideration. As we move through the comprehensive zoning by-law review it would behoove us – if we intend for the angular plane to be a hard-and-fast rule – to include it in those discussions. It is also possible that, if this is appealed to the Ontario Land Tribunal, that we will have that clarity imposed on us by way of its eventual decision.

As noted, I am siding with City staff on this question. There is no disagreement that a requirement for appropriate transition is absolutely baked into the OP. Our arterial mainstreets like Carling, especially those that are slated for more and eventually higher-order transit, are where Council will approve towers, but the Official Plan very consciously requires that there be a transition to the adjacent low-rise neighbourhoods

I begrudgingly believe that that transition is achieved. Where the west tower achieves something close to a 45-degree angular plane with what is considered a relatively generous setback to the property line abutting the neighbour’s property to the south, the east tower cannot be said to achieve the required transition through stepped height reductions.

I’ve shown here a detail from the proposed site plan. The configuration would see, from the north, the nearest R1QQ property, a 4.9m-wide City-owned laneway, a 13.5m-deep parkland dedication and a 3.3m-deep setback from the podium to the boundary with the park. In all, there is a roughly 21.7m setback from the southern edge of the adjacent low-rise to the east tower’s podium. This is, by any measure, a generous distance to a podium that has also been reduced in height from the original proposal.

The problem arises as the tower is stepped back just 3.2m from the podium for levels 5-9 before levels 10-27 rise up without stepback, albeit with a reasonably generous 7m stepback from the levels below it.

Other changes were made to better transition the development overall from the low-rise to the north that are important, but that are not central to the discussion today.

An appropriate transition to the east tower in terms accomplished by distance is, by today’s standards, arguably in place. The challenge is that despite the generous distance that tower just rises up without break to a height that doesn’t meet an angular plane. On balance, I’m comfortable that if the Official Plan test is that there be an appropriate transition accomplished by various means that this is demonstrable in this proposal. Few people really like height, but it is set back to a degree that Council has not demanded of developments abutting other neighbourhoods on arterial roads, and I do not believe that the Tribunal – if this was refused and appealed – would require more either.

Experimental Farm

There is a second consideration in this proposal that should give councillors pause before we approve the sought-after re-zoning: the development’s impact on the adjacent farm and the research that is occurring there. Agriculture Canada has expressed concern that the shadows cast by this building will compromise experiments in some fields and rob the large greenhouses there of passive heat that will increase their bills.

I’ve spent some significant time speaking with the scientists and they have a real concern. Below, I’ve pasted a screen shot of the shadow study provided by the developer to show that in the later evening, a long shadow will move across several fields in which there is an ongoing experiment testing approaches to assisting bacteria to better help soybean plants fix nitrogen in sandier, dryer soils. I have also pasted a screen shot showing modeling by Agriculture Canada demonstrating the reduced minutes of sunlight (including red spectrum light that is particularly important to the process of photosynthesis and that is more abundant when the sun is at a more oblique angle later in the day: it is helpful to know that there are 260,000 minutes of sunlight in an Ottawa growing season, not accounting for cloudy days).

The concerns are legitimate. As I understand the issue, plantings are not uniform throughout the fields in question: different varieties are planted within discrete small plots. If the sun moves across a field in a way that results in different levels of spectrum across varieties, it will be challenging to isolate the variables in determining which varieties are best achieving the desired scientific outcomes.

Bluntly, I believe that bigger concern being expressed is the future of the Farm. If the different levels of light can’t be accounted for through a regression analysis, the fields here are not at least so unique as to eliminate the potential to do the same research elsewhere. But as has been expressed to me, if the Farm’s research potential is nibbled away at how long will it be before its utility as a living lab is gone? When that day comes would the Farm simply be sold off for development? These are not wild-eyed questions. They are though, I believe, premature: even if the Taggart proposal is allowed to proceed it’s by no means inevitable that it will result in loss of the Farm.

I also, at the time writing, don’t have a good understanding of whether restraining the buildings along Carling to 15 storeys, or even 9, would make much of a difference. By 8 pm the sun is at a very oblique angle to the field. At some point there is a fundamental tension between the City’s plans for intensification to accommodate growth that focus specifically on arterial roads like Carling that will eventually have rapid transit, and the effect on the Farm. Radically constraining growth on Carling versus what is contemplated to accomplish larger sustainability goals raises thorny issues with which the City, development community and Agriculture Canada will need to grapple.

Technically and within the parameters of how the Ontario Land Tribunal would view this case, the effect of shadowing the Farm is likely a non-starter, especially compared to the legally more interesting question of transition that this development poses. Our Official Plan contemplates no special protection from taller towers on Carling and it is not obvious that in the context of twin climate and housing emergencies that it should. It’s a question, I believe, not for the OLT but for the City and Council as we move ahead with our new comprehensive zoning by-law as we look at buildings a few hundred metres east and west of this proposal, including the future of the existing Civic Hospital campus.

None of my reasoning above will be satisfactory to those members of the community opposed to these towers. As is the case with every controversial development we have heard the concerns about increased traffic and the changed character of the neighbourhood. Low-rise homes in the area north and west will be sometimes shadowed that aren’t currently shadowed. There is a discussion to come about how traffic in and out of the building will be handled. There are legitimate questions about the utility of the proposed parkland dedication. I agree that these are issues about which residents naturally feel discomfort. Ultimately, though, there’s little question that in this location this is the type of development that our Official Plan contemplates.

After months of back-and-forth, the developer considers that they are on solid ground with respect to the planning grounds they have argued in favour of the sought-after re-zoning. The outstanding question is whether they and the City are right in interpreting the Official Plan requirements for transition, or whether residents are. If this re-zoning is approved by Council there are two scenarios. The first would see the community very legitimately challenge it at the Ontario Land Tribunal. Clarity would follow. The second is that the re-zoning would go unchallenged, which is also a form of clarity. If the latter path is embarked upon then planners and Council will be asked to determine on a case-by-case basis whether proposed transitions are adequate. We will need to get ahead of that work in the course of ongoing efforts to update zoning in the city to reflect the new Official Plan.

I will ask my colleagues to vote their conscience.

Posted July 10, 2023

Councillor Jeff Leiper, Kitchissippi Ward 15,
City of Ottawa, 110 Laurier Avenue West,
Ottawa, Ontario, K1P 1J1, Canada
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  #54  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2023, 10:24 PM
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The amount of time Ottawa councillors spend studying shadows and 'traffic' from stumpy little Ottawa scale building proposals (at the behest of their constituents) is absolutely ridiculous. We're in a housing crisis and councillors are out here pandering to this bullshit constantly.
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  #55  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2023, 1:16 PM
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I appreciate most of his conclusions here, and that he will reluctantly vote in favour (probably), but it's position north of the Experimental Farm can't possibly create much, if any, shadows that would effect research. And where is this greenhouse he's talking about?
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  #56  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2023, 3:35 PM
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I appreciate most of his conclusions here, and that he will reluctantly vote in favour (probably), but it's position north of the Experimental Farm can't possibly create much, if any, shadows that would effect research. And where is this greenhouse he's talking about?
Most of his conclusions come from the position of "No but" instead of "Yes and", with them based around standard nimby tropes. The city shouldn't be basing its planning decisions today based on those of yesterday but here we are. Also, those 45 deg planes are terrible both ecologically & planning wise. One shouldn't expect anything other then this nimbyism when it comes to project in Leipers ward near SFH.

P.S The greenhouses are ~450m to the East south east.
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  #57  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2023, 3:53 PM
Dzingle Bells Dzingle Bells is offline
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Also, those 45 deg planes are terrible both ecologically & planning wise.
Yep. 45 degree angular planes are starting to lose credibility in urban design/planning circles. They make projects cost more, make buildings less efficient, increase the amount of embodied carbon and remove units. I think they are so popular because they are something very concrete that residents can respond to. It's a black or white answer whether a project follows it compared to most planning policy which is not.

I spoke to Councillor Leiper about this and sent some information to his office.

This is a good video that explains a lot of them by Naama Blonder who runs Smart Density out of Toronto.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYLaIPi8PLM&t=3s&ab_channel=SmartDensity
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  #58  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2023, 10:17 PM
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There is community opposition to this project led by the Civic Hospital Neighbourhood Association, https://www.chnaottawa.ca/1081-carling-sub-committee.html

I live in the area and noticed some posters up encouraging users to sign an online petition in opposition to the project when walking the dog this afternoon.

Even if the city rejects the project I cannot see the Ontario Land Tribunal rejecting it.

I support the project, the more density along Carling Ave all the better for future transit options along it.
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  #59  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2023, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Harley613 View Post
The amount of time Ottawa councillors spend studying shadows and 'traffic' from stumpy little Ottawa scale building proposals (at the behest of their constituents) is absolutely ridiculous. We're in a housing crisis and councillors are out here pandering to this bullshit constantly.
I don't usually share concerns about shadowing, but potential negative impacts on the Experimental Farm need to be looked at very carefully. Has anybody seen the screenshot to which he refers?
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  #60  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2023, 10:38 PM
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I don't usually share concerns about shadowing, but potential negative impacts on the Experimental Farm need to be looked at very carefully. Has anybody seen the screenshot to which he refers?
I haven't, but I just ran that location through PhotoPills, and the building would only cast a shadow on one field from around 6-9pm in the early summer so far as I can tell.
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