1081 Carling Ave | 57+89m | 16+27f | Approved

[J.OT13]

From Jeff Leiper's Newsletter:

Large development proposed for Parkdale/Carling

I've received a head's-up that an application has been filed by Taggart with the city for a development consisting of a 22-storey and 28-storey tower at 1081 Carling Avenue. The application isn't online but I expect that it will be shortly. I have let the developer know that I am almost certainly not going to be able to support what I consider on first glance an over-intensification of this site. We'll start working on an open house to give residents an opportunity to pose their questions of the developer and advertise that in a subsequent issue of the newsletter.

The site is home to an 8-storey white brick medical building near the Civic, with associated parking.

I agree with Leiper that, at first glance, what they are asking is a bit much. Other than the hospitals and medical clinics, there's very little in the immediate area in terms of transit or amenities. It directly abuts a low-density neighborhood. I think 12 floors would be more than suitable here. High-rises should be kept along retail and transit nodes.

https://www.google.com/maps/search/Parkd...75.7245323,245a,35y,39.42t/data=!3m1!1e3

[silvergate]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

From Jeff Leiper's Newsletter:

Large development proposed for Parkdale/Carling

I've received a head's-up that an application has been filed by Taggart with the city for a development consisting of a 22-storey and 28-storey tower at 1081 Carling Avenue. The application isn't online but I expect that it will be shortly. I have let the developer know that I am almost certainly not going to be able to support what I consider on first glance an over-intensification of this site. We'll start working on an open house to give residents an opportunity to pose their questions of the developer and advertise that in a subsequent issue of the newsletter.

The site is home to an 8-storey white brick medical building near the Civic, with associated parking.

I agree with Leiper that, at first glance, what they are asking is a bit much. Other than the hospitals and medical clinics, there's very little in the immediate area in terms of transit or amenities. It directly abuts a low-density neighborhood. I think 12 floors would be more than suitable here. High-rises should be kept along retail and transit nodes.

https://www.google.com/maps/search/Parkd...75.7245323,245a,35y,39.42t/data=!3m1!1e3

Getting density along Carling is precisely what is needed to justify any future rapid transit on the corridor. It's not like other proposals nearby along Carling (notably Westgate and the dairy plant) of similar height are close to many existing amenities.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

From Jeff Leiper's Newsletter:

Large development proposed for Parkdale/Carling

I've received a head's-up that an application has been filed by Taggart with the city for a development consisting of a 22-storey and 28-storey tower at 1081 Carling Avenue. The application isn't online but I expect that it will be shortly. I have let the developer know that I am almost certainly not going to be able to support what I consider on first glance an over-intensification of this site. We'll start working on an open house to give residents an opportunity to pose their questions of the developer and advertise that in a subsequent issue of the newsletter.

The site is home to an 8-storey white brick medical building near the Civic, with associated parking.

I agree with Leiper that, at first glance, what they are asking is a bit much. Other than the hospitals and medical clinics, there's very little in the immediate area in terms of transit or amenities. It directly abuts a low-density neighborhood. I think 12 floors would be more than suitable here. High-rises should be kept along retail and transit nodes.

https://www.google.com/maps/search/Parkd...75.7245323,245a,35y,39.42t/data=!3m1!1e3

Agree with you. There is no way to properly transition from 28 floors to the residential on the next block. We can get plenty of density with 10-12 floors in this area. Would not want to see the Great Wall of Rideau replicated across from the Farm.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by silvergate

Getting density along Carling is precisely what is needed to justify any future rapid transit on the corridor. It's not like other proposals nearby along Carling (notably Westgate and the dairy plant) of similar height are close to many existing amenities.

People seem to think that density has to be towers. A mid-rise would still be significantly denser than what's there are the moment.

It's true that at the moment, there isn't a whole lot near the old dairy plant (though still more than this site) however, the proposal itself is very likely to include most of the basic amenities. The Canadian Tire could easily be re-purposed into something like a grocery store.

Westgate has plenty of basics, like a pharmacy, health food store and Service Ontario. As a traditional retail site, the retail offerings will undoubtedly be maintained for the most part, just like Lincoln Fields.

[Williamoforange]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

People seem to think that density has to be towers. A mid-rise would still be significantly denser than what's there are the moment.

It's true that at the moment, there isn't a whole lot near the old dairy plant (though still more than this site) however, the proposal itself is very likely to include most of the basic amenities. The Canadian Tire could easily be re-purposed into something like a grocery store.

Westgate has plenty of basics, like a pharmacy, health food store and Service Ontario. As a traditional retail site, the retail offerings will undoubtedly be maintained for the most part, just like Lincoln Fields.

Great when will the area be zoned to allow midrise? The housing to the left of this proposal is still zoned R1....

So, Its all nice to talk about the missing middle and midrise being a solution but when no action is taken to make either of those actually viable in these urban wards then it leaves little else but high rise.

As for for the proposal yeah it's to me, too much for the area but it's sad that a prime mention against the dev is the fact that it's next to SFH as if that's a valid concern along with lack of infrastructure and amenities....

[J.OT13]

We're certainly not running out of space for densification. High-rises are going up all along the Trillium and Confed Lines. Mid-rises along main streets. The City has rezoned significant sfh areas to R4 recently, which is more than many other cities have done. That said, it's jarring how most of the up-zoning is in the east end, in transit starved areas that may never see rapid transit in our lifetime.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/r4-zoning-review-planning-committee-1.5718664

[Williamoforange]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

We're certainly not running out of space for densification. High-rises are going up all along the Trillium and Confed Lines. Mid-rises along main streets. The City has rezoned significant sfh areas to R4 recently, which is more than many other cities have done. That said, it's jarring how most of the up-zoning is in the east end, in transit starved areas that may never see rapid transit in our lifetime.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/r4-zoning-review-planning-committee-1.5718664

That wasn't a rezoning it was an update to the regs of R4 and it was one step in making the missing middle and Mid rise more viable. Hopefully the new OP will lead to widespread rezoning.

Also, some community associations in certain wards weren't exactly pleased with the changes. With fluery voting down the changes.

Also in context again of this dev the land nearby is zoned R1 (including land fronting arterial Rd Parkdale) except for a small sliver zoned R3 along major collector Holland

[silvergate]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

People seem to think that density has to be towers. A mid-rise would still be significantly denser than what's there are the moment.

It's true that at the moment, there isn't a whole lot near the old dairy plant (though still more than this site) however, the proposal itself is very likely to include most of the basic amenities. The Canadian Tire could easily be re-purposed into something like a grocery store.

Westgate has plenty of basics, like a pharmacy, health food store and Service Ontario. As a traditional retail site, the retail offerings will undoubtedly be maintained for the most part, just like Lincoln Fields.

I'd be fine with mid-rise too, increased density in the area in any form would be the catalyst to start bringing services in. As it stands, the Carling-Holland-Parkdale area is pretty sparse on amenities.

There's a ~15 storey building across the street, which might set the height precedent.

[rocketphish]

1081 Carling Avenue Co-Tenancy (the owner) is seeking to redevelop the subject site at 1081 Carling Avenue with two residential towers with heights of 22 and 28 storeys each featuring six (6) storey podiums. The taller 28-storey tower has been located on the southeast corner of the subject site adjacent to Parkdale Avenue, while the shorter, 22-storey tower, is on the south-west corner of the subject site, adjacent to Hamilton Avenue.

The development proposes 462 total units, with 204 units and 16,950 square metres of gross floor area for the west tower as well as 258 units and 21,437 square metres of gross floor area for the east tower. The combined gross floor area for the proposed development is 38,387 square metres and would include a mix of studio, one- and two-bedroom and one- and two-bedroom plus den apartments. The average size of the apartments is 67.4 square metres.

The development proposes a total of 340 vehicular parking spaces located within the four (4) storey underground parking garage and 342 bicycle parking spaces. The total vehicular parking spaces would include 293 residential spaces (0.63 spaces/unit) and 47 visitor parking spaces (0.1 spaces/unit). The single parking garage access is provided via Hamilton Avenue South, on the south side of the road closure and accessed via the existing right-in/right-out intersection with Carling Avenue. The 342 bicycle parking spaces are proposed within the podium, at-grade outdoors, and within the parking garage.

Two outdoor spaces are proposed as part of the development: a public park in the northeast corner of the site along Parkdale Avenue and an open, landscaped space at the southeast corner of the site adjacent to the future transit station. The proposed park is being provided as a public parkland dedication with an area equivalent to 10% of the subject site, resulting in a park area of 429 square metres. The landscaped open space will welcome visitors to the site and create a comfortable pedestrian environment at the ground level, adjacent to the future transit station.

The existing building and parking structure is proposed to be demolished.

Architect: Hobin Architecture


Development application:
https://devapps.ottawa.ca/en/applications/D02-02-21-0093/details

Location:




Siteplan:




Renderings:

[rocketphish]

Curiously, the Elevations document shows buildings of 27f + 31f tall. Is that what they plan to propose as a revision after they get approved? Or did they already get beaten down from those heights?

http://webcast.ottawa.ca/plan/All_Image%...0-%20Elevations%20-%20D02-02-21-0093.PDF

[Harley613]

At this point Hobin is just Lahey with a dash of pepper. I just got back from Calgary and it was super depressing seeing the broad variety of heights and designs for all of the new rentals being built all over the city.

[Urbanarchit]

Originally Posted by Harley613

At this point Hobin is just Lahey with a dash of pepper. I just got back from Calgary and it was super depressing seeing the broad variety of heights and designs for all of the new rentals being built all over the city.

Yup, they're one and the same now. They don't even try to do anything good or unique because this is what the cheap developers want. After them spending decades to become architects this is what all their knowledge and experience produced (I know they have other architects designing buildings, but they sign off of these buildings).

What saddens me more is that they're tearing down the Parkdale Medical Tower by George Bemi. He was an important Modernist architect for Ottawa and also designed the Main Library on Metcalfe/ Laurier and the YMCA by the Museum of Nature. I know it might not be the most exciting building, but it has it's own charms. They redid the exterior recently, but I'm sure the interior could use some love.

I have to wonder why they want this height on this site. It's not anywhere conveniently served by transit, and has 340 parking spaces! That's an awful lot for this site. What really is the justification?

[SL123]

Originally Posted by Urbanarchit

I have to wonder why they want this height on this site. It's not anywhere conveniently served by transit, and has 340 parking spaces! That's an awful lot for this site. What really is the justification?

its literally 1.5km from Carling/Dows Lake station and steps aways from the 55 and 85 bus. Carling is also a priority corridor for future transit BRT or LRT system in the master plan.

[Williamoforange]

>The subject site is located adjacent to a future LRT rapid transit station, as depicted in Schedule D – Rapid Transit and
Transit Priority Network in the City of Ottawa Official Plan and shown below in Figure 9. Carling Avenue is identified as a
future Light Rail Transit (LRT) corridor with at-grade crossings. A station is planned for the corner of Parkdale Avenue and
Carling Avenue, immediately adjacent to the site. The potential for LRT is currently post-2031, with Carling Avenue
shown as a “Transit Priority Corridor – Continuous Lanes” in the 2031 Affordable Rapid Transit and Transit Priority
Network Concept (Map 5) of the 2013 Transportation Master Plan.

It looks like there justification is the fact that the current transportation plan states that Carling will be a Transit priority area and that the post 2031 network shows LRT.

As for the amount of parking, min is 277 space proposed is 340 or ~22% more then required. Counting on LRT to get it past zoning, realizing that the LRT won't be built for a very long time so parking.

Without LRT this is too much, and will probably get bumped to stuby 15 story tower, and hopefully the new OP rezones the surrounding area to allow for something other then low density suburban sprawl that currently exists.

[Urbanarchit]

Originally Posted by SL123

its literally 1.5km from Carling/Dows Lake station and steps aways from the 55 and 85 bus. Carling is also a priority corridor for future transit BRT or LRT system in the master plan.

At around 1.5km that's a 20 minute walk to the O-train in good summery weather, and goes to a station that is not LRT. That is definitely not close, convenient to good transit, nor is it transit oriented development (which is is defined by the City as within 600m of a transit station. As a resident of the area, the 85 bus is a mess with how long it takes to get anywhere and how infrequent it is (as a person who relied on it daily until I gave up and now bike everywhere), and there is no convenient way to get downtown unless you want to take a bus to Tunney's or Carling Station before transferring. The City hopes one day that there will be transit priority on Carling, but those plans are a long ways off and considering how they've been flopping on every other part of our transit system, I'm not going to hold my breath.

Objectively, the people living in this building will choose to drive everywhere because these towers are not near anything essential like jobs or grocery stores, nor is it close any place for leisure/ entertainment. I bet you that the the residents will not be choosing to take transit (especially not with so many parking spots) even after the possibly built LRT or street cars on Carling in the distant future. I say this as a long-time resident of the area who has never driven but has had to rely on the inconvenient transit system and walked in winter and summer. This building is a grab by developers to make lots of money off of ugly highrises without concern for the end users of area they're located in. They're asking for a substantial upzone for maximum 30m for front portion, 11m for the current parking garage. 9-12 stories would be reasonable, but 28 and 22 for this sort of area is a lot:

Also to reiterate, the building is ugly and unoriginal/ lacks creativity.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Urbanarchit

What saddens me more is that they're tearing down the Parkdale Medical Tower by George Bemi. He was an important Modernist architect for Ottawa and also designed the Main Library on Metcalfe/ Laurier and the YMCA by the Museum of Nature. I know it might not be the most exciting building, but it has it's own charms. They redid the exterior recently, but I'm sure the interior could use some love.

Also sad to see this one go. Building an "L" shaped dark brick and glass 12 storey tower around the existing would make for an interesting addition.

The current proposal seems to be the developer throwing shit on the wall and see what sticks. They know that the City approves just about anything, so why not!?

The vague possibility of streetcars post-2031 (more like post-2041 since the City is obsessed with the unfunded, less beneficial Stage 3) is not an argument for this development. Even with the streetcar, I don't think this is justified with the lack of nearby amenities.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Urbanarchit

At around 1.5km that's a 20 minute walk to the O-train in good summery weather, and goes to a station that is not LRT. That is definitely not close, convenient to good transit, nor is it transit oriented development (which is is defined by the City as within 600m of a transit station. As a resident of the area, the 85 bus is a mess with how long it takes to get anywhere and how infrequent it is (as a person who relied on it daily until I gave up and now bike everywhere), and there is no convenient way to get downtown unless you want to take a bus to Tunney's or Carling Station before transferring. The City hopes one day that there will be transit priority on Carling, but those plans are a long ways off and considering how they've been flopping on every other part of our transit system, I'm not going to hold my breath.

Objectively, the people living in this building will choose to drive everywhere because these towers are not near anything essential like jobs or grocery stores, nor is it close any place for leisure/ entertainment. I bet you that the the residents will not be choosing to take transit (especially not with so many parking spots) even after the possibly built LRT or street cars on Carling in the distant future. I say this as a long-time resident of the area who has never driven but has had to rely on the inconvenient transit system and walked in winter and summer. This building is a grab by developers to make lots of money off of ugly highrises without concern for the end users of area they're located in. They're asking for a substantial upzone for maximum 30m for front portion, 11m for the current parking garage. 9-12 stories would be reasonable, but 28 and 22 for this sort of area is a lot:

Also to reiterate, the building is ugly and unoriginal/ lacks creativity.

Agreed, in addition to the generic ugliness of the building, this is far from a transit-oriented development. The theoretical designation of Carling as a priority transit corridor is being used to justify a lot of development, but I don't see any prospect of significant improvement in that regard for decades. Also, if we have clear language about appropriate transitions in our official plan, I'm not sure why we would keep approving these projects that provide absolutely no transition to adjacent residential.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Urbanarchit

Objectively, the people living in this building will choose to drive everywhere because these towers are not near anything essential like jobs or grocery stores, nor is it close any place for leisure/ entertainment.

I know it's a conversation that's occurred a lot on this forum but these sorts of things could probably be nearer and this area could be more service-oriented for local residents if the opposite side of Carling wasn't farmland.

[lrt's friend]

Oddly enough, a proposed Carling streetcar with a two transfer requirement to reach downtown makes transit at this site far worse than what existed here in the 1940s (the Holland streetcar and the frequent 'cross-town bus' ran here at that time) when this was at the very edge of the city. We are building for more car dependency even as we intensify. We invest in very expensive transit to make transit worse. What are we doing?

[OTownandDown]

Hospital rental parking is extremely lucrative. Hence the 340. Anybody know how many levels of underground parking were included in the next-door retirement residence?