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  #16501  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2023, 10:06 PM
skyscraperaccount skyscraperaccount is offline
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
David Jeanes was interviewed on CBC Radio this afternoon and suggested a south platform at Pimisi Station, which would double the capacity of the station. This would require new entrances, stairs and elevators, but he claimed there was space for the additional platform.
See...if we spent all our money on a working LRT we'd have no money to expand stations...A1 transit planning in action.
     
     
  #16502  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2023, 10:07 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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What happens when Phase 2 opens, and westbound buses are no longer a viable alternative? It seems that the island platform could not possibly handle large crowds going in both directions.
     
     
  #16503  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2023, 10:37 PM
zzptichka zzptichka is offline
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
David Jeanes was interviewed on CBC Radio this afternoon and suggested a south platform at Pimisi Station, which would double the capacity of the station. This would require new entrances, stairs and elevators, but he claimed there was space for the additional platform.
So the station can handle 40K crowd. But if there is chance for a 50K crowd then back to square one, closing the station.

Ugh stop searching for complex solutions to simple problems. Do your work, control the crowd. We've been doing this for decades.
     
     
  #16504  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2023, 10:48 PM
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Pimisi Station unfit to handle substantial crowds in case of emergencies, police say
Bluesfest organizers anticipate Pimisi Station will be open throughout the festival, which kicks off Thursday evening, with daily crowds expected to be a fraction of the size of last week's Canada Day events at LeBreton Flats.

Catherine Morrison, Ottawa Citizen
Published Jul 05, 2023 • Last updated 19 minutes ago • 5 minute read


The Ottawa Police Service is defending the decision to restrict access to Pimisi Station on Canada Day, arguing that the station is unable to handle substantial crowds and lacks alternative escape routes in the case of emergencies.

In an email statement to this newspaper, police said there were several key factors to consider — such as geography, infrastructure and public safety — in the temporary closure of Pimisi Station and the alternative route for people with universal access requirements last weekend.

On July 1, OC Transpo said access to Pimisi Station was restricted “at the request of event organizers” to support crowd safety. Entry to Pimisi Station from Albert Street was reserved for customers with accessibility needs, with all other station entrances closed.

All trains bypassed Pimisi Station between 8 p.m. and 10 p.m. to clear lines and manage the crowd on Booth Street during the fireworks show. OC Transpo recommended that individuals take the train or a bus to Lyon Station to get to LeBreton Flats.

Police blamed the design of Pimisi Station on the closure, noting that, because it’s situated on “a lengthy bridge,” it does not facilitate the efficient handling of substantial crowds and lacks alternative escape routes for emergencies.

“This deficiency became evident during the Canada Day festivities in 2022 when a medical emergency occurred on the bridge, leading to a halt in pedestrian movement,” police said, noting that the force’s top priority on Canada Day is public safety. “Consequently, the safety of those stranded on the bridge, as well as the responding personnel and the distressed individual, was compromised.”

Police said OC Transpo agreed to designate Pimisi Station as an LRT stop for people with universal access requirements only “well in advance” of Canada Day.

“While they did not intend to restrict persons with accessibility needs from disembarking there, our agreed-upon security measures required screening at the station exit on Booth Street,” police said. “People without universal access requirements were redirected to the Albert Street corridor for ingress via Commissioner Street.”

The decision to implement a skip-stop was made to ensure that police could effectively maintain the Booth Street corridor for “mass egress” and emergency vehicle access to the site, if necessary, police said.

The force said the decision was made in collaboration with Canadian Heritage, OC Transpo and a crowd management consultant, given concerns about overcrowding during 2022 festivities.

“Given the expected larger crowds this year, it was crucial to mitigate potential risks and maintain public safety,” police said.

However, OC Transpo’s general manager, Renée Amilcar, said the transit agency was not responsible for the decision, but it was made in consultation with the City of Ottawa’s traffic services. Dominique Collin, director of issues management and ministerial services with the Department of Canadian Heritage, also said that department did not make the decision to close the station, adding simply it was “a public safety decision made by the appropriate authorities.”

Caroline Czajkowski, a spokesperson for the Department of Canadian Heritage, said approximately 20,000 people attended the Canada Day evening show and fireworks display at LeBreton Flats Park this year. In 2022, Czajkowski said the evening show and fireworks display was attended by approximately 33,000 people.

Police said there were factors that made safety plans difficult — including ongoing construction on Albert Street near its intersection with Booth Street — although police said issues would have been “considerably worse” had temporary restrictions and alternative routes not been implemented.

In the statement, police also acknowledged the inconvenience caused by the measures, apologizing for any difficulties people may have encountered during the day. They added that police must balance the “intricate dynamics” of managing large crowds with ensuring the safety of all attendees.

“The environment containing a large crowd must be set up and maintained in a manner to mitigate issues that could be caused by panic (real or perceived) or a severe weather event where crowds are leaving rapidly to seek shelter — which was fortunately avoided on Saturday thanks to our plans and early notification,” Police said, adding that their utmost priority remains the safety and security of all attendees at large events. “We continuously evaluate and refine our security measures to ensure the best possible experience for everyone involved.”

In response to a request from this newspaper for additional details, City of Ottawa Transit Services and the Ottawa Police Service issued a statement saying the city and its “event partners,” including OC Transpo, other city departments and the police, establish planning teams for major events.

The decision to temporarily close Pimisi Station to transit users from 8 p.m. to 10:05 p.m. was made to minimize lineups and manage overcrowding on and around Booth Street, not at the station itself, the statement said.

“Bluesfest and Canada Day are very different events and require distinct event management strategies,” it added. “Bluesfest is a ticketed event, with an expected number of attendees. Canada Day crowd numbers are unpredictable and can swell to more than 100,000 people.

“Pimisi Station is safe and will be fully operational for upcoming large events including Bluesfest. OC Transpo and OPS have been planning and preparing for Bluesfest and will be monitoring the event closely and will make adjustments as required to ensure the safe flow of people to and from the event site. Concertgoers can find information about their transit options for Bluesfest on OC Transpo’s website.

“The City of Ottawa, OPS, and other event partners are reviewing the event feedback and working collaboratively for future event planning.”

Joe Reilly, who works in media relations for RBC Ottawa Bluesfest, said his understanding was that Pimisi Station would be open throughout the festival. He added that there would be buses available to take overflow patrons from the festival to Tunney’s Pasture.

Reilly said the festival’s operations director had been meeting regularly with the police and with OC Transpo in the lead-up to the festival and would continue to do so during the event.

Last year, Reilly said the festival saw an overall attendance of between 250,000 to 300,000 people. This year, he said Bluesfest expects to see around 20,000 to 30,000 people on busy nights.

Given that no stations had to close last year, even on the festival’s busiest nights, Reilly said he expected Pimisi would remain open, though OC Transpo, police and the festival’s operation team would monitor the situation on a nightly basis and make changes as needed.

“We’re running as we did last year,” Reilly said. “It was crowded, but a very successful way to get people on and off our site even during super busy nights last year. We love public transit, we support it, we’re so happy that our patrons get to ride for free and come down here and avoid parking hassles and avoid congestion and ride public transit.”

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...ubstantial-crowds-emergencies-police-say
     
     
  #16505  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2023, 2:12 AM
swimmer_spe swimmer_spe is offline
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Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
[B]Pimisi Station unfit to handle substantial crowds in case of emergencies, police say
Bluesfest organizers anticipate Pimisi Station will be open throughout the festival, which kicks off Thursday evening, with daily crowds expected to be a fraction of the size of last week's Canada Day events at LeBreton Flats.


https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...ubstantial-crowds-emergencies-police-say
Are these the same police that could not get a tow truck downtown to move some illegally parked trucks?
     
     
  #16506  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2023, 2:18 AM
Jay31 Jay31 is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
This is just another case of local media jumping a the chance to publish yet another negative story about the O-Train, when it should be about incompetent/lazy police and bad organization.
This sums it all up. The fact that the plan involved closing Pimisi made everyone look bad, and now the different organizations are pointing fingers to assign blame for poor planning. The LRT station is just an easy scapegoat, because of its reputation and the fact that most people in Ottawa never take transit.

I also wonder sometimes if there's a contingent that is trying to scuttle the Senators move to Lebreton and highlighting non-stories like this helps build that case. The concept of going to a large event and having to wait in a crowd for public transit is like something from a different country for most of Ottawa. If it was a jammed parking lot with 30 minutes of parking lot traffic jam to get to a stop and go highway, no problem... but having to wait 15 minutes for a train, oh the horror...
     
     
  #16507  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2023, 2:27 AM
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Closing Pimisi Station for major events can't be the long-term answer
“On Canada Day, our top priority is public safety.”

Bruce Deachman, Ottawa Citizen
Published Jul 05, 2023 • Last updated 3 hours ago • 4 minute read


The city’s much-beleaguered LRT system is easily the handiest scapegoat in Ottawa when looking for examples of civic mismanagement and engineering ineptitude.

That transit system and city were dealt yet another blow after riders were confused by mixed-messaging about access to Pimisi Station ahead of Canada Day last week. It has subsequently come out that the station, the LRT stop closest to LeBreton Flats, wasn’t designed to accommodate large crowds, according to police.

So where does that leave us? We’re presumably going to continue to have large events there, such as Bluesfest, and we’re planning on adding a lot of development to the area, including, quite possibly, a new arena for the Senators. Will Pimisi be able to handle an outdoor Shania Twain concert in front of the Canadian War Museum, for example, on the same night that an NBA exhibition game is being held in the arena? Or will the LRT station need a retrofit, similar to how current Lansdowne 2.0 plans call for blowing up some of the original 1.0 design?

Admittedly, Pimisi was not designed for Canada Day festivities, which are potentially much larger, more fluid and less predictable than Bluesfest, where attendees are ticketed. The station’s current design, according to OPS, “does not facilitate the efficient handling of substantial crowds,” which, following discussions with OC Transpo, Canadian Heritage and an unnamed “crowd management consultant,” led to it being skipped by trains for two hours on the night of Canada Day, with riders encouraged to get off at nearby Lyon or Bayview stations and walk or bus to LeBreton.

Should we accept that at face value? The station handled last year’s Bluesfest without faltering, and it’ll be open for this year’s as well, with OC Transpo trips actually included with festival admission. Is the station actually unable to handle a Canada Day-sized event, or was this an example of police being overly cautious at the expense of Canada Day-goers? Or, conversely, are the public outrage and ridicule over the station’s closure unwarranted?

It’s always difficult to challenge any decision that’s made in the name of public safety, which is what OPS invoked in defending the station’s temporary closure.

“On Canada Day, our top priority is public safety,” it wrote. “While OC Transpo must look at prioritizing customer service, we must balance the intricate dynamics of managing large crowds with ensuring the safety of all attendees. The lack of planning and preparation for the sudden and fast movement of large events can cause tragic outcomes. The environment containing a large crowd must be set up and maintained in a manner to mitigate issues that could be caused by panic (real or perceived) or a severe weather event where crowds are leaving rapidly to seek shelter — which was fortunately avoided on Saturday thanks to our plans and early notification.”

If you squint your eyes a little, it feels like there’s some hindsight bias here, as if “the decision was made and there were no subsequent tragic outcomes, so the decision was a good one.”

And that could be true. As Coun. Steve Desroches, chair of the city’s Light Rail Sub-Committee, said to me on Wednesday, “I would rather have this conversation than a conversation about a tragedy in different circumstances. If we had had a medical emergency or tragedy, we’d have a lot different questions today than the ones we’re discussing.”

Coun. Glen Gower, chair of the Transit Commission, said police indicated that lessons learned from the convoy protests last year have affected how they now manage crowds and events.

“Every event that happens at LeBreton Flats is different, and, in this case, their review of event security and crowd management made them decide that they didn’t want to use Pimisi as the primary station.”

Pimisi Station is built on a bridge overtop of the LRT, with exits and entrances on Booth Street. Police have indicated that the station needed to be closed when it was this year in order for police to “maintain” Booth Street and ensure emergency vehicle access to the roadway, which it said was overcrowded during last year’s Canada Day, with ever larger crowds expected this year.

In the coming days and weeks, the Transit Commission, police and feds need to look at the station and its challenges on days like Canada Day and come up with a better plan. It may be, as Desroches suggests, creating better connections from the trains to street level. “If there is going to be a station at this location, then we’re going to have to look at perhaps improving connectivity. You can’t just have a transit station without that, whether that’s pathways or additional road connections.”

But closing the station when riders most want to use it can’t be the answer. Other cities with century-old transit systems somehow find ways to make them work during large-scale events. Meanwhile, it’s more than passing strange, or disappointing, that Ottawa, which constantly talks about becoming a world-class city, rarely if ever makes plans that lead it there. If Pimisi Station was never intended to host something as big as a Canada Day, then we’re simply dreaming too small.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...ajor-events-cant-be-the-long-term-answer
     
     
  #16508  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2023, 10:23 AM
skyscraperaccount skyscraperaccount is offline
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Originally Posted by Jay31 View Post
This sums it all up. The fact that the plan involved closing Pimisi made everyone look bad, and now the different organizations are pointing fingers to assign blame for poor planning. The LRT station is just an easy scapegoat, because of its reputation and the fact that most people in Ottawa never take transit.

I also wonder sometimes if there's a contingent that is trying to scuttle the Senators move to Lebreton and highlighting non-stories like this helps build that case. The concept of going to a large event and having to wait in a crowd for public transit is like something from a different country for most of Ottawa. If it was a jammed parking lot with 30 minutes of parking lot traffic jam to get to a stop and go highway, no problem... but having to wait 15 minutes for a train, oh the horror...
I'll bite...I'm one of those that will likely never or rarely on a week of Sundays take transit to an event at Lebreton. I agree...15 is better than 30 and that should be pointed out.

What also should be pointed out is that we are building this station in a empty field with the only constraint being good transportation planning...there is zero excuse other than short sightedness to have this be an issue. The constant keystone cops approach to managing this city's infrastructure just becomes a little too much at times, ya know? Build it for future use and capacity, not on a shoestring to a budget.

The city needs leaders that plan based on need and tax and budget accordingly...not the other way around where we set arbitrary budget constraints and build half assed solutions.
     
     
  #16509  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2023, 12:17 PM
Jay31 Jay31 is offline
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Originally Posted by skyscraperaccount View Post
I'll bite...I'm one of those that will likely never or rarely on a week of Sundays take transit to an event at Lebreton. I agree...15 is better than 30 and that should be pointed out.

What also should be pointed out is that we are building this station in a empty field with the only constraint being good transportation planning...there is zero excuse other than short sightedness to have this be an issue. The constant keystone cops approach to managing this city's infrastructure just becomes a little too much at times, ya know? Build it for future use and capacity, not on a shoestring to a budget.

The city needs leaders that plan based on need and tax and budget accordingly...not the other way around where we set arbitrary budget constraints and build half assed solutions.
I appreciate you biting . My 30 minutes was from what I recall sitting in traffic - often not even moving, trying to leave CTC after Sens games. I suspect even with the current station, the experience leaving Bluesfest (a larger crowd than CTC) will be better than leaving a Sens game via a car...but we'll have to see what others say. I didn't see many complaints from last year.

Don't get me wrong - I think the system could have been built a lot better. I'm a lot more worried about capacity issues at stations like Parliament and Rideau - that would be much more expensive to expand than I am Pimisi though. A lot of cheap material choices will mean things like floors will need to be replaced far sooner, while causing a danger to users.

In this case though, it feels like Pimisi is being made to take the blame for poor crowd control strategies. It also sounds like it wasn't the station itself, but the bridge/road and the need to keep lanes open for emergency vehicles. I wonder if expectations were reasonable for the crowd (ie how much of bridge was saved for cars vs crowds of people)?

Anyway, it doesn't sound like the crowd planned for (100k+) was anywhere near what showed up...so it was likely fine. If Pimisi can handle the 20-30k for Bluesfest, it's doing its job IMO. A lot of this is just media rage farming (example: https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/video?cid=sm%3...dmIRyvGaqoPMGigIAkagrICLeTlXFx8nThbm_jso)
     
     
  #16510  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2023, 1:47 PM
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Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker View Post
This is misdiagnosing I think - access limits need to be at the ends of the bridges. the sidewalks are too narrow, and the lack of substantial plazas in front of the station head make it quite dangerous for an all at once crowd movement.

Easiest solution would be to make the bridge pedestrian only during events.
The bridge is pedestrian only during events, and the diagram proposed is exactly what they implement with fenced queues on the sidewalks (they have to be on the sidewalks for accessibility). They fence a lane down the middle to keep it clear for emergency vehicles, but the bridge is closed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
David Jeanes was interviewed on CBC Radio this afternoon and suggested a south platform at Pimisi Station, which would double the capacity of the station. This would require new entrances, stairs and elevators, but he claimed there was space for the additional platform.
In theory this is possible, TTC Union Station style.

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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
What happens when Phase 2 opens, and westbound buses are no longer a viable alternative? It seems that the island platform could not possibly handle large crowds going in both directions.
It handled it fine at Bluesfest last year - a platform will hold a trains worth of waiting people, the issue is when it is overcrowded. With proper entry control (which they do) there's really no limit to the number of people the station can process, you just need a bigger lineup outside.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay31 View Post
This sums it all up. The fact that the plan involved closing Pimisi made everyone look bad, and now the different organizations are pointing fingers to assign blame for poor planning. The LRT station is just an easy scapegoat, because of its reputation and the fact that most people in Ottawa never take transit.

I also wonder sometimes if there's a contingent that is trying to scuttle the Senators move to Lebreton and highlighting non-stories like this helps build that case. The concept of going to a large event and having to wait in a crowd for public transit is like something from a different country for most of Ottawa. If it was a jammed parking lot with 30 minutes of parking lot traffic jam to get to a stop and go highway, no problem... but having to wait 15 minutes for a train, oh the horror...
The LRT as a scapegoat seems likely, but it should also be noted that the station was open for egress after the fireworks - the concern was earlier in the day when people were arriving from the station and may have had nowhere to go. This is a non-issue with ticketed events as you know how many people are coming. It also has nothing to do with the station itself, and more to do with its location on an elevated structure with limited opportunities for crowd relief.
     
     
  #16511  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2023, 4:35 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Originally Posted by Catenary View Post
It also has nothing to do with the station itself, and more to do with its location on an elevated structure with limited opportunities for crowd relief.
There is a whole other level, though.
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  #16512  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2023, 7:25 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Originally Posted by Catenary View Post
It handled it fine at Bluesfest last year - a platform will hold a trains worth of waiting people, the issue is when it is overcrowded. With proper entry control (which they do) there's really no limit to the number of people the station can process, you just need a bigger lineup outside.
True, sort of. But if the island platform cannot handle enough people to fill trains in both directions, we have a major efficiency problem.

If people cannot get onto the platform, they aren't getting on the next train when it arrives. Does anybody know what the capacity of the platform is? That is a crucial question. If the platform capacity is substantially less than the train capacity, then the platform size is a bottleneck.

The question was just asked on radio about train frequency. What was the train frequency being offered? Do we even have the ability to run trains more frequently than every 5 minutes anymore. Are we being limited by subsequent agreements beyond the original agreement to operate 15 trains or about 3 min 15 second frequency? This starts getting at the issue brought up for race weekend when early opening of the Confed Line was refused. Are we really able to run trains at max capacity to clear crowds as efficiently as possible or do P3 agreements override what might otherwise be possible?

I look at the situation with buses running west and trains only running east and worry about long-term capacity issues.

I wrote about this years ago about the Confed Line and Canada Day. And this year, crowds were not as high because of the Lebreton location and weather conditions. I think back to when Prince William and Kate made their first post marriage international tour to Ottawa on Canada Day and the enormous crowds that came downtown. We are probably not ready for anything like that ever again.
     
     
  #16513  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2023, 8:22 PM
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Here's a more accurate depiction of the Pimisi "issues". Ultimately, it doesn't matter how many people we can fit on the platform. We need crowd control to fill one train at a time. The open concept of the station makes that quite simple.

The only way to increase capacity, is by increasing the capacity of the system. Built the pocket track at Hurdman and run trains every 2 or 3 minutes between Hurdman and Tunney's (or eventually Lincoln Fields) while keeping the rest of the system 5/10 minutes.

And the Police's B.S. of ""The safety of those stranded on the bridge, as well as the responding personnel and the distressed individual, was compromised," police said.". That can apply to anything. Accident on the Queensway? Traffic jam? Not easy access and exist for emergency vehicles. Maybe we should close the Queensway at rush hour then.

Quote:
Pimisi station would be less crowded if LRT ran as designed: former transit chair

Diane Deans says the LRT was designed for trains running every 2 to 3 minutes

Sarah Kester · CBC News
Posted: Jul 06


Crowding at Pimisi Station wouldn't be an issue if the LRT were running as originally designed, a former chair of the transit committee says.

Pimisi station, which was closed for a period of time on Canada Day over concerns about crowd control, was originally designed to accommodate trains running every two to three minutes, according to former city councillor Diane Deans.

Instead, trains currently run every five minutes during weekday rush hour.

"When you think about it, it's really half the service that we had initially planned," said Deans, who sat on council during the planning and implementation of the LRT.

The city paid for 17 trains with a plan to run 15 trains at rush hour and peak times. Currently, OC Transpo often runs fewer, but the city said it was unable to provide a specific number in time for publication.

Deans said she was surprised by the closure because concerns about crowd control were not raised during the planning stages of the station.

"It is a mass transit system. It was intended to carry high volumes of people and this is, for all intents and purposes, really a downtown stop. [It] should be able to accommodate it," Deans said.

"Either it would seem at some point that station will need to be redesigned or they will need to increase the frequency of the trains."

In a joint statement late Wednesday, the city and Ottawa police said the decision to close the station on Canada Day "was made to minimize lineups and manage overcrowding on and around Booth Street, not at the station itself."

But on Tuesday, Ottawa police told CBC Pimisi Station was not designed to handle large crowds efficiently, given that it sits on a lengthy bridge with limited escape routes.

According to police, that "deficiency" became apparent during the Canada Day festivities in 2022, when a medical emergency occurred on the bridge.

"The safety of those stranded on the bridge, as well as the responding personnel and the distressed individual, was compromised," police said.

That statement also mentioned that the decision to close Pimisi station was made with the support of a crowd consultant who was worried about crowding on Booth Street.

Capacity issue could be fixed with another platform

David Jeanes, treasurer of Transport Action Canada, said observers have questioned whether Pimisi station was built with enough capacity.

"Some people feel that Pimisi Station should have had outside platforms like Tunney's Pasture so that it could have, say, four separate exits or even six separate exits," he said.

Jeanes said that if an additional platform were built on the station's south side, it might fix the crowd issue.

But ultimately, he's not convinced the station has a crowd control problem.

"The consultant who decided that it was not safe did not make the correct decision as far as I'm concerned," he said.

Pimisi could have remained open, former police chief says

Former Ottawa police chief Charles Bordeleau told CBC Radio's Ottawa Morning Thursday that it isn't feasible to design transit stations to accommodate one-off events with massive crowds.

Instead, people on the ground are needed to direct people where to go, both trains and buses should be running, and they should be running more often, he said.

"I think they could have had the station running at the same time, because you need different points of exits for the crowds. And to funnel everybody on buses only ... it reduces the opportunity to have crowds leave in an orderly fashion," Bordeleau said.

"The key is having people on the ground to manage the crowds .. and if your system is overflowing, having the ability to direct people to other methods of transportation, other exit points, so they don't panic."

Canada Day a different beast

Cathy Curry, vice-chair of transit committee, said she doesn't think crowds at Pimisi station for the Shania Twain concert on Thursday will present the same challenges as those on Canada Day.

"Substantial crowds mean different things for different times," she said. "Canada Day, with people everywhere, is different from Bluesfest, where people are in one location and exiting all in one area."

She said Canada Day comes with different security concerns than other events — such as difficulty predicting the flow of foot traffic and the potential that protesters wearing flags may blend into the crowd.

The city echoed this view in its statement, saying Canada Day and Bluesfest require different management strategies.

"Bluesfest is a ticketed event, with an expected number of attendees. Canada Day crowd numbers are unpredictable and can swell to more than 100,000 people," the statement said.

Curry said a combination of buses and the LRT will be available during Bluesfest to ferry crowds away from LeBreton Flats.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/pimisi-station-lrt-trains-run-time-1.6897786
     
     
  #16514  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2023, 8:34 PM
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It’s ridiculous that they talk about the design of the station not being appropriate to the event when the event was not designed appropriately for the venue.

There’s really little reason for the fireworks to have been moved west closer to LeBreton. Parliament hill was never the best place to view them when the show was there, and leaving it where it was would have diffused crowds away from LeBreton, few of which really come for the made for TV presentation anyway.

With current technology, it really wouldn’t even be a big deal to split the performances on several stages and live stream between them.
     
     
  #16515  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2023, 9:29 PM
Richard Eade Richard Eade is offline
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
True, sort of. But if the island platform cannot handle enough people to fill trains in both directions, we have a major efficiency problem.

If people cannot get onto the platform, they aren't getting on the next train when it arrives. Does anybody know what the capacity of the platform is? That is a crucial question. If the platform capacity is substantially less than the train capacity, then the platform size is a bottleneck.

The question was just asked on radio about train frequency. What was the train frequency being offered? Do we even have the ability to run trains more frequently than every 5 minutes anymore. Are we being limited by subsequent agreements beyond the original agreement to operate 15 trains or about 3 min 15 second frequency? This starts getting at the issue brought up for race weekend when early opening of the Confed Line was refused. Are we really able to run trains at max capacity to clear crowds as efficiently as possible or do P3 agreements override what might otherwise be possible?

I look at the situation with buses running west and trains only running east and worry about long-term capacity issues.

I wrote about this years ago about the Confed Line and Canada Day. And this year, crowds were not as high because of the Lebreton location and weather conditions. I think back to when Prince William and Kate made their first post marriage international tour to Ottawa on Canada Day and the enormous crowds that came downtown. We are probably not ready for anything like that ever again.
You ask about the capacity of the platform. The Pimisi central platform is 90 m long x 10 m wide – less any area taken for stairs, elevators, etc. The side platform stations are 90 m long X 5.5 m wide – less any area taken for stairs, elevators, escalators, etc. The three underground downtown stations have platforms that are 120 m long, while the others simply have a potential expansion area that is 10 m long, at one end of the current platform(s).

It is likely that the central platform at Pimisi has about the same person capacity as the two side platforms at any of the other above-ground stations.

Something to remember is that the Canada Day festivities will probably return to The Hill once the renovations have progressed enough to restore the lawn. We should not be talking about modifying the Pimisi Station to accommodate Canada Day. All other large crowds have been fine with Pimisi the way it is.

Another thing to remember is that the OPS seems to have a very poor record of handling crowds well. An example is putting all of those rows of barricades across the Booth Bridge. Channeling huge crowds into very long lines where there is no ‘escape’ is a sure way to increase anxiety in people. It is simply the wrong way to deal with the crowds. OPS doesn’t know how to handle crowds – period. And they learned NOTHING from 2022. Their response to 2022 issues was to do the same thing in 2023. Brilliant. If the issue is too many people trying to cross the bridge, then divide the crowd so that not everyone needs to cross the bridge! Easy. Load the westbound/southbound buses somewhere other than at the far end of the bridge that the eastbound folks need to cross to get to the train.
     
     
  #16516  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2023, 9:59 PM
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I am not sure this is rocket science. You put people in reflective vests at the entrance and on the platform. When the platform gets too crowded the people at the door let people in in groups until congestion on the platform eases.
     
     
  #16517  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2023, 10:52 PM
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I am not sure this is rocket science. You put people in reflective vests at the entrance and on the platform. When the platform gets too crowded the people at the door let people in in groups until congestion on the platform eases.
It's Ontario, the nanny state where Costco has to pay an off duty police officer a thousand bucks to direct traffic out of the lot. What if one of the reflective vest people made a mistake and literally everyone died???
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  #16518  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2023, 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Harley613 View Post
It's Ontario, the nanny state where Costco has to pay an off duty police officer a thousand bucks to direct traffic out of the lot. What if one of the reflective vest people made a mistake and literally everyone died???
So pay an off duty cop to wear the reflective vest.
     
     
  #16519  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2023, 1:58 AM
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Something to remember is that the Canada Day festivities will probably return to The Hill once the renovations have progressed enough to restore the lawn. We should not be talking about modifying the Pimisi Station to accommodate Canada Day. All other large crowds have been fine with Pimisi the way it is.
Thais is my thinking. Pimisi station was designed to handle crowds of 30k, like seen at BluesFest, not 100k, like one would typically see at Canada Day, and rightly so. Canada Day festivities are traditionally downtown, and the 3 downtown stations (4 if you count uOttawa) were the ones expected to handle those larger crowds (by each taking a portion of the crowds).

On top of all this, Line 2 not being open won’t have helped, as it would have absorbed at least a small portion of the crowds (my guess is about 10%). Not enough to compensate for there being about 3 times the designated capacity, but every bit helps.

If an arena is built at LeBreton, Pimisi won’t be an issue as:
  1. The arena would have a capacity of less than 20k,
  2. The crowds would be divided between Pimisi and Bayview, and
  3. The planned entertainment district around the area would serve to accommodate people who want to wait out the crowds.
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  #16520  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2023, 2:41 AM
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This sums it all up. The fact that the plan involved closing Pimisi made everyone look bad, and now the different organizations are pointing fingers to assign blame for poor planning. The LRT station is just an easy scapegoat, because of its reputation and the fact that most people in Ottawa never take transit.

I also wonder sometimes if there's a contingent that is trying to scuttle the Senators move to Lebreton and highlighting non-stories like this helps build that case. The concept of going to a large event and having to wait in a crowd for public transit is like something from a different country for most of Ottawa. If it was a jammed parking lot with 30 minutes of parking lot traffic jam to get to a stop and go highway, no problem... but having to wait 15 minutes for a train, oh the horror...
Good point.

Im going to have to struggle with my wife to park the car to goto bluesfest tomorrow night. Some people just be weird like that. If line 2 train was running it would be a cinch. But it isnt. So there we go.
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