Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

If Pimisi is "not built for substantial crowds" then why was the plan on Canada Day for it to be open after the fireworks, when demand would've been the highest? And regardless of its capacity, measures can always be taken to control the flow of people into the station. Montreal does it every year for the F1 grand prix and other events at Jean Drapeau... have we ever tried asking for their expertise?

Here's my rough attempt at applying Montreal's approach here. Before I begin, yes I know the metro has a much higher capacity than the O-Train, but the grand prix also attracts many more people than Bluesfest. Either way, you will have long lineups.

Set up two queues on Booth, one for people wanting to go eastbound and one for westbound. Funnel each queue into one of the two entrances to Pimisi, effectively making either entrance serve only one direction. As people enter the station and go down to the platform, have staff on hand to corral them down the length of the platform, using all available space. Yes it's a centre platform but by separating people by their direction of travel at the entrance, it should avoid conflict down at the platform. To avoid a crush of people reaching the platform, simply have staff posted at the fare gates to pause entry whenever the station is full. Rinse and repeat until you have cleared the crowd. The key to success for this approach is having lots of staff to effectively form a human conveyor belt, verbally encouraging people to move along until all capacity is used.

As for the police's concern for not being able to reach someone in the event of an emergency on a crowded platform, how is that any different from the difficulty of reaching someone in the middle of a 40K concert crowd? Part of becoming a big city is accepting big city risks. There's no way you'd easily reach someone on the busy, post-event platform of an STM metro station or any other transit system for that matter. At Pimisi, you you use the level 1 entrance (via the MUP from Albert St.) as a staging area for EMS to have easier access to the platform if needed.

Yep, my thoughts exactly. I lived in Moscow and Kyiv for several years and it was a routine practice to close some of the doors for entrance when needed, including fireworks crowds.

It just sounds like OC and cops don't want to do their job.

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Yep, my thoughts exactly. I lived in Moscow and Kyiv for several years and it was a routine practice to close some of the doors for entrance when needed, including fireworks crowds.

It just sounds like OC and cops don't want to do their job.

Exactly, these types of challenges can be solved with adequate manpower and effective communication. The reason Montreal's solution works so well is because they have dozens of transit cops on hand, all relaying a clear and concise message while sometimes linking arms and use pieces of rope as makeshift barriers to herd people accordingly. Here's a rough diagram of how my application of their method to Pimisi might work.

[TransitZilla]

The framing of this situation is very frustrating. Pimisi has demonstrated the ability to handle substantial crowds with 2 Canada Days and a complete Bluesfest festival last year.

The TV segment featured and interview with someone who said egress from Canada Day wasn’t great because he had to wait for 3 trains. That’s… 12 minutes? Have you ever timed how long it takes to get out of the CTC parking lot?

I’m curious to see the full statement from OPS because it seems that the reporting on it is selective for the purposes of creating a controversy. This sentence stands out: “ Pimisi Station, which is situated on a lengthy bridge, is lacking with alternative escape routes for emergencies.”

The station has exits on the lower level, so it sounds like the biggest concern is the bridge itself. Which is actually mostly not a bridge but rather and embankment. Future development of the parcels east and west of Booth are intended to have buildings level with the embankment. This will likely solve the issue by providing alternative pedestrian accesses to Booth Street.

But the development of these parcels are the responsibility of the NCC and its partners. It had nothing to do with OC Transpo or the design of Pimisi station itself.

Looking forward to seeing how this issue will be re-framed after the successful conclusion of Bluesfest. I’m confident that everything will go very well as it did last year.

[Williamoforange]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

CTV News has just reported that Pimisi Station is poorly designed and unable to handle large crowds. This is why Ottawa Police wanted access to the station restricted.

Remember the value engineering that was done to contain costs. Haven't we wanted Lebreton Flats to have major attractions since LRT planning started? It never ends.

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/pimisi-lrt-sta...ntial-crowds-ottawa-police-say-1.6466969

CTV took the OPS word at face value, that ain't a news report it's a copy paste of a press release...

It's unable to handle a crowd as per OPS requirements at a level that is double what any other event would bring in, including a hockey rink....

It handled Bluesfest and any issue with the station can be resolved if it's required (which I doubt).

[rocketphish]

Pimisi LRT station poses a safety risk for large crowds, police say
Station was partially closed between 8 and 10:05 p.m. on Canada Day

CBC News
Posted: Jul 04, 2023 8:19 PM EDT | Last Updated: 1 minute ago

The Pimisi LRT station near LeBreton Flats is unable to efficiently handle large crowds, Ottawa police say, after city departments partially closed the transit stop during Canada Day celebrations.

"The current design of Pimisi station does not facilitate the efficient handling of substantial crowds," Ottawa police said in an email to CBC.

The station is on Booth Street, west of the downtown core, just over the bridge from LeBreton Flats, a popular site for concerts and festivals, and a proposed future home of the Ottawa Senators.

Police said that because the station is situated on a lengthy bridge, it lacks alternative escape routes in emergencies.

According to police, that "deficiency" became apparent during the Canada Day festivities in 2022, when a medical emergency occurred on the bridge.

"The safety of those stranded on the bridge, as well as the responding personnel and the distressed individual, was compromised," police said.

This year, Pimisi station was partially closed during Canada Day festivities. OC Transpo designated the station available from 8 p.m. to 10:05 p.m. on July 1, to only those passengers with accessibility needs.

The decision to close the station, police said, was made in collaboration with Canadian Heritage, OC Transpo and a crowd management consultant who "raised concerns about overcrowding on Booth Street" during the Canada Day event the year before.

Police said "several issues" still arose on Booth Street between Wellington and Albert streets last weekend, but added those issues would have been "considerably worse" had temporary restrictions and alternate routes not been implemented.

In an email, the City of Ottawa said it understands and appreciates frustrations about the partial closure that were expressed by residents.

"Our on-site staff worked closely with the Ottawa Police Service to manage and assist crowds and ensure customers were provided safe and reliable service," the city's manager of rail operations, Derek Moran, said.

On Monday, OC Transpo reassured frustrated passengers that they won't encounter similar station restrictions when Bluesfest kicks off at LeBreton Flats on Thursday.

The website for Ottawa's Bluesfest says 250,000 fans attend each year and it is one of Canada's largest outdoor music festivals.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/pimisi-lrt-station-1.6897168

[lrt's friend]

How does Canada Day differ from Bluesfest? Just wondering.

Also, if there are safety issues, are we not coming up solutions to significantly reduce those problems? With Parliament Hill closed for a decade, we need to at least consider how to improve the situation. Perhaps, solutions are unaffordable but they should at least be identified.

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

How does Canada Day differ from Bluesfest? Just wondering.

Also, if there are safety issues, are we not coming up solutions to significantly reduce those problems? With Parliament Hill closed for a decade, we need to at least consider how to improve the situation. Perhaps, solutions are unaffordable but they should at least be identified.

For the most part, they don’t differ. Yet somehow the O-Train handles Bluesfest crowds with no problem while Heritage Canada decides to implement some boneheaded plan for Canada Day… should be an obvious hint at where the issue lies

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

How does Canada Day differ from Bluesfest? Just wondering.

Also, if there are safety issues, are we not coming up solutions to significantly reduce those problems? With Parliament Hill closed for a decade, we need to at least consider how to improve the situation. Perhaps, solutions are unaffordable but they should at least be identified.

I imagine the Bluesfest crowd is more predictable, being a ticketed event. Though the capacity of the grounds is about the same (30K), the biggest draw for Canada Day is the fireworks, where people don't need to get into the grounds- they can congregate all over- inside and outside the official grounds. For this reason, the egress volumes for Canada Day are much higher.

If the problem is a lack of exits from Booth Street, maybe the solution is to build temporary pathways from Booth Street to act as emergency exits. Build a pathway linking Booth to Lett Street on the east side, and another on the west. This would require the involvement of the NCC/Claridge.

Once these lands are developed the pathways can be formalized.

[zzptichka]

Also, we seem to forget that our trains are low-floor LRT. Most other cities can work around their high-platform heavy subway no problem.
Even if you miss a step and end up on the track, you can be easily get back on the platform. The trains can arrive slower if needed, not like they are very fast to begin with.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

How does Canada Day differ from Bluesfest? Just wondering.

I think the numbers on site are similar, but Canada Day has the dynamic of thousands of people arriving for fireworks as the show lets out, so that’s a pretty significant difference. There are also thousands more people in the downtown core generally, so overall numbers of people on transit would be a lot higher.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by TransitZilla

I imagine the Bluesfest crowd is more predictable, being a ticketed event. Though the capacity of the grounds is about the same (30K), the biggest draw for Canada Day is the fireworks, where people don't need to get into the grounds- they can congregate all over- inside and outside the official grounds. For this reason, the egress volumes for Canada Day are much higher.

If the problem is a lack of exits from Booth Street, maybe the solution is to build temporary pathways from Booth Street to act as emergency exits. Build a pathway linking Booth to Lett Street on the east side, and another on the west. This would require the involvement of the NCC/Claridge.

Once these lands are developed the pathways can be formalized.

In fairness Canada Day fireworks can easily have another 30k on the surrounding streets.

The real station that can't handle substantial crowds is Lyon station. The West entrance has just one door regularly sized door so is congested on a normal Friday when people are moving in both directions. I can't imagine what happened post fireworks for folks moving east. They mostly seemed to walk all the way to Rideau from what I saw of moving crowds.

[Kitchissippi]

The biggest issue with Canada Day was that they completely blocked everything west of the site and forced all public access via Wellington and Booth. why? I suspect they reserved the parkway only for secure VIP access for the PM et al. There was no way to get to Bayview on foot or bike except via the Booth Street bridge. Bluesfest has no such stupidity.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

The biggest issue with Canada Day was that they completely blocked everything west of the site and forced all public access via Wellington and Booth. why? I suspect they reserved the parkway only for secure VIP access for the PM et al. There was no way to get to Bayview on foot or bike except via the Booth Street bridge. Bluesfest has no such stupidity.

They blocked off that area because the fireworks were being staged where the two paths converged. Next year maybe they should put the fireworks on a barge anchoured just east of the Commanda Bridge, because that bridge will be packed to watch the show.

[J.OT13]

For me, it just seems like bad organization all around. If they hadn't blocked off the west access along the river, a few thousand people might have headed there towards Bayview and Tunney's. It would have done a better job dispersing the crowds.

As other have mentioned, if Montreal can do it at Jean-Drapeau station, where there's only one entrance/exit, we can do it with three entrances (+ 2 or 4 emergency exists).

Ultimately, it sounds like the bridge is the problem, so I'm a bit frustrated that the Police blames the entire station.

This is just another case of local media jumping a the chance to publish yet another negative story about the O-Train, when it should be about incompetent/lazy police and bad organization.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

If Pimisi is "not built for substantial crowds" then why was the plan on Canada Day for it to be open after the fireworks, when demand would've been the highest? And regardless of its capacity, measures can always be taken to control the flow of people into the station. Montreal does it every year for the F1 grand prix and other events at Jean Drapeau... have we ever tried asking for their expertise?

Here's my rough attempt at applying Montreal's approach here. Before I begin, yes I know the metro has a much higher capacity than the O-Train, but the grand prix also attracts many more people than Bluesfest. Either way, you will have long lineups.

Set up two queues on Booth, one for people wanting to go eastbound and one for westbound. Funnel each queue into one of the two station entrances on Booth, effectively making either entrance serve only one direction. As people enter the station and go down to the platform, have staff on hand to corral them down the length of the platform, using all available space. Yes it's a centre platform but by separating people by their direction of travel at the entrance, it should avoid conflict down at the platform. To avoid a crush of people reaching the platform, simply have staff posted at the fare gates to pause entry whenever the station is full. Rinse and repeat until you have cleared the crowd. The key to success for this approach is having lots of staff to effectively form a human conveyor belt, verbally encouraging people to move along until all capacity is used.

As for the police's concern for not being able to reach someone in the event of an emergency on a crowded platform, how is that any different from the difficulty of reaching someone in the middle of a 40K concert crowd? Part of becoming a big city is accepting big city risks. There's no way you'd easily reach someone on the busy, post-event platform of an STM metro station or any other transit system for that matter. At Pimisi, you could use the level 1 entrance (via the MUP from Albert St.) as a staging area for EMS to have easier access to the platform if needed.

This is exactly what they do at Bluesfest. The EB line is on the EB sidewalk, the WB line is on the WB sidewalk. Through traffic is in the middle. A line of hired security guards regulates the crowd at the station entrance when the platforms get full, and OC staff move people down the platform. It works pretty well, and the faregates are wide open as 99.9% of the riders have transit passes so there's no delay there.

This is actually a fantastic station for emergency access - you can drive an ambulance onto the MUP from Albert and right up to the lower entrance.

The issue with crowds is actually because of the busses. If Albert was fully closed from Bronson to Bayview and Boot up to Somerset, the crowd would be able to move freely over the bridge and disperse. Because of the traffic on Albert, crowds coming over the bridge are directed into crosswalks and onto sidewalks, a significant bottleneck.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Catenary

This is exactly what they do at Bluesfest. The EB line is on the EB sidewalk, the WB line is on the WB sidewalk. Through traffic is in the middle. A line of hired security guards regulates the crowd at the station entrance when the platforms get full, and OC staff move people down the platform. It works pretty well, and the faregates are wide open as 99.9% of the riders have transit passes so there's no delay there.

This is actually a fantastic station for emergency access - you can drive an ambulance onto the MUP from Albert and right up to the lower entrance.

The issue with crowds is actually because of the busses. If Albert was fully closed from Bronson to Bayview and Boot up to Somerset, the crowd would be able to move freely over the bridge and disperse. Because of the traffic on Albert, crowds coming over the bridge are directed into crosswalks and onto sidewalks, a significant bottleneck.

So the stations not the problem, cars are, but no one's ever going to say that!

[Richard Eade]

So, if the bridge is the issue, then divide the people BEFORE they cross the bridge. Open up an exit on the west end of the LeBreton site and have buses take people west and south from there. There would be a fence between the bus platform and the firework area.

Eastbound people would use the Booth Street Bridge to get to the Pimisi station, where ONLY EASYBOUND trains would take people from both sides of the platform. (There would be no westbound trains traveling east of Lyon for a short period of time, but there would be a few buses going west/south from Lyon along Albert.)


(Map from GeoOttawa, annotation by me.)

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

Exactly, these types of challenges can be solved with adequate manpower and effective communication. The reason Montreal's solution works so well is because they have dozens of transit cops on hand, all relaying a clear and concise message while sometimes linking arms and use pieces of rope as makeshift barriers to herd people accordingly. Here's a rough diagram of how my application of their method to Pimisi might work.

This is misdiagnosing I think - access limits need to be at the ends of the bridges. the sidewalks are too narrow, and the lack of substantial plazas in front of the station head make it quite dangerous for an all at once crowd movement.

Easiest solution would be to make the bridge pedestrian only during events.

[mykl]

The conspiracy theorist in me thinks the federal government is setting the groundwork for a rebuild of Pimisi station integrated into a new arena at the request of the new Sens owner. Lets wait and see.

[lrt's friend]

David Jeanes was interviewed on CBC Radio this afternoon and suggested a south platform at Pimisi Station, which would double the capacity of the station. This would require new entrances, stairs and elevators, but he claimed there was space for the additional platform.