Canada's 'housing bubble' deemed close to bursting

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I'm assuming they would be sold for the purpose of building housing, no? Otherwise PP would not have mentioned it.

Vague things allow for any conclusion, including the fact that not one will be converted to housing. Good to see he is a fan of 100% work from home.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Sell 6000 federal government buildings.....

Kind of sounds like what Harper did to balance the budget that got Trudeau elected.

I'm also not sure how much value this can offer countrywide. A mass surplus'ing of federal buildings/land could do wonders for housing supply in Ottawa. Not so sure about the rest of the country.

[LightingGuy]

Originally Posted by Wigs

Yes, ultra fast suburban style growth. MolsonExport would say endless sprawl and big box fart shopping plazas. Monotonous cookie cutter look.

Molson lives in London - not exactly an urbanist's paradise.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I'm assuming they would be sold for the purpose of building housing, no? Otherwise PP would not have mentioned it.

It's also an idea that the Liberals themselves are talking about and working on. So I don't get the animosity towards it. With hybrid work and hot bunking cubicles becoming normalized, why do the feds need to pay to maintain so much real estate? Indeed, in Ottawa, the feds are already merging offices and ditching buildings. I'm just not sure this policy is very relevant outside the NCR. Federal lands outside the NCR are usually national critical infrastructure like military bases, ports, labs, etc. Not much of that can be downsized. And not much of it, is in areas that would support conversion to housing.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

It's also an idea that the Liberals themselves are talking about and working on. So I don't get the animosity towards it. With hybrid work and hot bunking cubicles becoming normalized, why do the feds need to pay to maintain so much real estate? Indeed, in Ottawa, the feds are already merging offices and ditching buildings. I'm just not sure this policy is very relevant outside the NCR. Federal lands outside the NCR are usually national critical infrastructure like military bases, ports, labs, etc. Not much of that can be downsized. And not much of it, is in areas that would support conversion to housing.

I would agree.

The feds have a process in place for disposing of surplus land and buildings. They have been doing it for years. It is not like there is a massive amount of land the feds have been holding in unban centers and now they can release.

They currently have 4 buildings for sale. Not exactly anything that is going to fix the housing problem. https://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/biens-property/id-reo/index-eng.html

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

It's also an idea that the Liberals themselves are talking about and working on. So I don't get the animosity towards it. With hybrid work and hot bunking cubicles becoming normalized, why do the feds need to pay to maintain so much real estate? Indeed, in Ottawa, the feds are already merging offices and ditching buildings. I'm just not sure this policy is very relevant outside the NCR. Federal lands outside the NCR are usually national critical infrastructure like military bases, ports, labs, etc. Not much of that can be downsized. And not much of it, is in areas that would support conversion to housing.

Yes, I think they've decided to get rid of 50% of their office space. I suspect that the tendency will be to lease space rather than own.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by Wigs

Milton-ization means cookie cutter blandness, no walkability, huge developments with thousands of units built at once. A sea of vinyl in beige, grey, taupes and browns. Although this particular project appears to have a higher percentage of townhouses and apartments or condos to SFH.

The average Milton subdivision plan includes townhomes, stacked townhomes, mid rises and lately more often high rises with a limited number of single family homes. It's not surprisingly any different from Burlington or Oakville greenfield development. The average person can't afford a brand new single family home.

[WhipperSnapper]

How much office space do the feds currently own versus lease? I remember as far back as 20 years a commitment to sell in lease back agreements. The feds are just anchor tenants in every building under 20 years old as well.

Experts are predicting an office gut last 20 years across most of Canada. I can't think of a worst time to sell commercial assets and to build residential. Construction costs are astronomical.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by LightingGuy

Molson lives in London - not exactly an urbanist's paradise.

London >>> Milton. It has a decent urban core. Most of the city is accessible through its bike network. No highways running through the city. If you're a reasonable active person, you can live in London without a car. I wouldn't say that for Milton.

[LightingGuy]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

London >>> Milton. It has a decent urban core. Most of the city is accessible through its bike network. No highways running through the city. If you're a reasonable active person, you can live in London without a car. I wouldn't say that for Milton.

I've lived in both, didn't particularly like either.

I'll Kitchener over London, and Burlington over Milton.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by LightingGuy

I've lived in both, didn't particularly like either.

I'll Kitchener over London, and Burlington over Milton.

Maybe. But the comparison was a London to Milton. What do you think Milton would be like if they had London's population?

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by LightingGuy

Molson lives in London - not exactly an urbanist's paradise.

True, but he was born and raised in urban Montréal. One can still be critical of shoddily built homes that look disposable, seemingly endless suburban sprawl no matter where you live. Canada deserves better.

Heck, Rush wrote a song about the ugliness and banality in the early 80s

• Video Link

Growing up, it all seems so one-sided
Opinions all provided
The future pre-decided
Detached and subdivided
In the mass-production zone

Nowhere is the dreamer
Or the misfit so alone

Subdivisions
In the high school halls
In the shopping malls
Conform or be cast out
Subdivisions
In the basement bars
In the backs of cars
Be cool or be cast out

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Maybe. But the comparison was a London to Milton. What do you think Milton would be like if they had London's population?

Milton would have more apartments, a larger skyline if you were to add 300,000 more people to the current development cycle. London has a ton of apartment high rises too.

[whatnext]

This article takes its jumping off point from Prince Harry and his grifter wife and the Vancouver Island mansion they "fled" to and goes to show how difficult tracing home ownership in Canada can be and how that makes it easy to launder money here. Unbelievably we still have simpletons in the Vancouver forum denying that offshore money is a problem!

Russian billionaire is behind mansion that housed Harry and Meghan, leaked files show
-Offshore trust bought $18M oceanfront estate, known as Mille Fleurs, in 2013
Zach Dubinsky, Frédéric Zalac, Paul Émile d'Entremont, Alex Shprintsen · CBC News · Posted: Apr 13, 2022

Meghan and Prince Harry, seen in New York City last year, spent most of the winter in 2020 at an oceanfront estate on Vancouver Island, whose owner has remained a bit of an enigma. (Roy Rochlin/Getty (left); Sothebys (right))
It's been an international enigma for the last two years: Who really owns the lavish Vancouver Island estate where Prince Harry and Meghan wintered in 2020 as they reportedly hashed out their plan to step back from official royal duties?

Is it the Russian-born billionaire who several media outlets linked to the property? Is it Canadian mining magnate Frank Giustra, as (erroneously) reported by the New York Post's Page Six?

CBC and Radio-Canada found the answer, and it does indeed involve a Russian, but it wasn't easy — it took an international leak of tax-haven data, access to a company's internal records and intense research. All that, experts say, shows once again just how opaque Canada is when it comes to assets like real estate and who owns it.

"It is very easy for criminals around the world to be laundering their dirty money in Canada and buying real estate," said Kevin Comeau, a lawyer and financial transparency expert. "And we have no way of knowing who they are or [the] ability to chase their money. "....

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c...rry-meghan-yuri-milner-pandora-1.6419328

[lio45]

Originally Posted by whatnext

"It is very easy for criminals around the world to be laundering their dirty money in Canada and buying real estate," said Kevin Comeau, a lawyer and financial transparency expert.

I've been pointing this out on this forum for over 15 years now.

Actually, Canada being so welcoming to the world's dirty money is one of the reasons I picked Canadian real estate as one of my main investment vehicles at the time. (And I don't regret it.)

It's a rare combination: fully first world country, but anyone can bring loads of cash no questions asked. The only other places that are like this (Switzerland, etc.) ALL have crazy high real estate, so Canada back then (when it was still cheap) looked like a great bet to me

[casper]

Originally Posted by lio45

I've been pointing this out on this forum for over 15 years now.

Actually, Canada being so welcoming to the world's dirty money is one of the reasons I picked Canadian real estate as one of my main investment vehicles at the time. (And I don't regret it.)

It's a rare combination: fully first world country, but anyone can bring loads of cash no questions asked. The only other places that are like this (Switzerland, etc.) ALL have crazy high real estate, so Canada back then (when it was still cheap) looked like a great bet to me

So how do you propose fixing this without creating excessive administrative overhead for business that are are regularly engaged in international trade.

[lio45]

First, I never even said I’d want it “fixed” (I’m among those who benefit from Canadian real estate being the world’s money laundromat), and second, if the Americans and Europeans can, we probably could as well — IF we wanted.

[casper]

Originally Posted by lio45

First, I never even said I’d want it “fixed” (I’m among those who benefit from Canadian real estate being the world’s money laundromat), and second, if the Americans and Europeans can, we probably could as well — IF we wanted.

I don't think the Americans or Europeans have fixed this problem. That involves deep diving into the internal business dealing of someone in a foreign country. Not that easy.

A good portion of this "dirty money" is dirty because China has struct rules on money leaving China. It was illegibly transferred out of the country. However was very likely obtain through legitimate means. Canada should be indifferent to that. If it is something that would be illegal under our laws that is one thing, but something that is legal here but illegal elsewhere is a different matter.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by casper

So how do you propose fixing this without creating excessive administrative overhead for business that are are regularly engaged in international trade.

Maybe having that administrative overhead is needed to fix it.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by casper

I don't think the Americans or Europeans have fixed this problem. That involves deep diving into the internal business dealing of someone in a foreign country. Not that easy.

A good portion of this "dirty money" is dirty because China has struct rules on money leaving China. It was illegibly transferred out of the country. However was very likely obtain through legitimate means. Canada should be indifferent to that. If it is something that would be illegal under our laws that is one thing, but something that is legal here but illegal elsewhere is a different matter.

Made through legitimate means? Does that cover forced labour? Sweat shops?