DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[mhays]

I'd be surprised if the retail is revenue-positive. It tends to rent at a loss in an apartment building. But wow would it be nice to be able to buy coffee or a chocolate chip muffin with a long ride ahead, or get a few staples on the way home or to work. That's a serious problem in my area too.

As for public projects and whether contractors can do them... FEDERAL work tends to have tough barriers, often to create set-asides for specific disadvantaged groups, or just onerous processes that also impact everything else that contractor does. And other processes that are easy but perhaps overly broad (literally checking a box saying you're not using Burmese child labor in the prequal system...seriously. Here's an added secret...some marketing person is checking those prequal boxes based on assumptions, not necessarily an exec.).

But state and local agencies are often much easier. They have a lot of rules, but probably the majority of the top 30 local GCs will propose for and win their fair shares.

[mishko27]

Originally Posted by mhays

I'd be surprised if the retail is revenue-positive. It tends to rent at a loss in an apartment building. But wow would it be nice to be able to buy coffee or a chocolate chip muffin with a long ride ahead, or get a few staples on the way home or to work. That's a serious problem in my area too.

As for public projects and whether contractors can do them... FEDERAL work tends to have tough barriers, often to create set-asides for specific disadvantaged groups, or just onerous processes that also impact everything else that contractor does. And other processes that are easy but perhaps overly broad (literally checking a box saying you're not using Burmese child labor in the prequal system...seriously. Here's an added secret...some marketing person is checking those prequal boxes based on assumptions, not necessarily an exec.).

But state and local agencies are often much easier. They have a lot of rules, but probably the majority of the top 30 local GCs will propose for and win their fair shares.

Yeah, not sure about what the returns are. What could work is a Rail+Property model. There is quite a bit of TOD and the RTD parking lots will need to be developed eventually. RTD could create a nice revenue stream from whatever profit sharing model they'd implement (share of overall unit sales, fixed lump sum per development, share of leasing income, there are many arrangements that could be made with developers).

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by mishko27

..Ultimately, I have lived in Colorado for the past 13 years, I should know better than to bring my European thinking here It's just every now and then I see a project like the Park Meadows housing that makes so much sense and I apply my European thinking to it Can't help it I guess.

It's fun to dream! Retail works in all those other places mainly because there is ample serious nearby residential density (24 hr density). A Dutch village or or french suburb has 10x plus the residential density of Denver's densest TODs and that's only looking at unit density - not accounting for multi-generational living arrangements prevalent in Europe, Asia, South America which creates even more real density. Office density alone is not enough to sustain retail, rooftops HAVE to be a part of it. I don't know if there is a single area of Denver, or Colorado in general, that boasts sufficient 1/4 mile density to amply sustain diverse retail not dependent on vehicle trips. I'd love to see some tiny bodegas all around!

[TakeFive]

Happy to have your post

Originally Posted by adelaide52

Most of the traffic at the station will be at commuting hours from 6-8 am and 4-6 pm. No one will be shopping at a retail village at thoses time, except for maybe groceries on the way home. When I commuted on the train in a large city all I wanted to do when I got to my stop was get home as quickly as possible. I had no interest is shopping.

And there is no reason to have a 7-11 across the street. The retail should be right in the station. Every large city transit system I've ever been on has stands where people can get coffee, a charger, flowers, milk, etc., right in the station.

Do you live in the Denver metro area? Not necessary; just curious. I see this is only your 3rd post since joining in 2012; you're certainly welcome to post more often.

The subject station is along a suburban line. It was literally built as a part of the freeway expansion project and boarding is via an island setup. For several years it was an 'End of Line' station but the line has since been extended 3 miles. There would be less traffic now as a result.

Most of the parking for this station is across the freeway by bridge to the east. This station does have nice access for bus, rideshare etc drop-off and pickup making it more of a kiss-and-ride on the west side where the train stops.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by mhays

As for public projects and whether contractors can do them... FEDERAL work tends to have tough barriers, often to create set-asides for specific disadvantaged groups, or just onerous processes that also impact everything else that contractor does. And other processes that are easy but perhaps overly broad (literally checking a box saying you're not using Burmese child labor in the prequal system...seriously. Here's an added secret...some marketing person is checking those prequal boxes based on assumptions, not necessarily an exec.).

Burmese, eh? That's funny.

If there's a Red Wave (for real) in 2024 I would expect Republicans to overhaul the process chock full of stupid stuff. Whether some notion of 'social justice' or environmentalism or just plain NIMBY-ism the process is a messier than a traffic jam. Interestingly, the Biden agenda including all manner of Made-in-America ambitions also needs to have a cleaner pathway.

Is it any wonder why in many respects China is eating our lunch? They want to accomplish something they go and do it. Warren Buffet claims BYD has been has been the best investment he's ever made. China (for all their faults) is churning out renewable energy product at many times what the U.S. is doing.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by mishko27

There is quite a bit of TOD and the RTD parking lots will need to be developed eventually. RTD could create a nice revenue stream from whatever profit sharing model they'd implement (share of overall unit sales, fixed lump sum per development, share of leasing income, there are many arrangements that could be made with developers).

All that land that RTD has for park-n-rides is not just something they thought was a good idea. As I understand it, it was required by the FTA as a part of the Grant process and they'd need permission to change it. They do have a number of kiss-and-ride stations. Obviously adding parking structures would not be a problem. Note: seems RTD may have already done this at 41st/Fox Station where they had acquired way more land than necessary because it was available and cheap at the time.

BTW, IIRC Sound Transit is including a healthy does of parking on their new suburban route stations.

We're all familiar with the close-in TOD that's making a huge impact with much more to go. But as you move into the suburbs there's a question of who would want to develop there? Affordable housing maybe?

[adelaide52]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Happy to have your post

Do you live in the Denver metro area? Not necessary; just curious. I see this is only your 3rd post since joining in 2012; you're certainly welcome to post more often.

The subject station is along a suburban line. It was literally built as a part of the freeway expansion project and boarding is via an island setup. For several years it was an 'End of Line' station but the line has since been extended 3 miles. There would be less traffic now as a result.

Most of the parking for this station is across the freeway by bridge to the east. This station does have nice access for bus, rideshare etc drop-off and pickup making it more of a kiss-and-ride on the west side where the train stops.

Thanks for the context – very helpful. I grew up in Denver (Harvey Park) but moved away many, many decades ago. Still have family in the metro but only get back there every few years. But I still like to keep up on developments in the area.

I am familiar with the location but have never been on the system or at that station. I get that a suburban station is different than one in a high density, urban location and it really comes down to foot traffic where successful retail is concerned.

So maybe what I suggested is not feasible for that station, but I do know that convenience/time is of the utmost importance for commuters. If someone has to walk across the street in the rain to get a cup of coffee that is a big deterrent. Or maybe they don’t think they have enough time because their train arrives in 4 minutes. When people are commuting, they will not go out of their way. That’s why in-station retail is the most ideal.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

I would expect Republicans to overhaul the process chock full of stupid stuff.

Republicans don't reduce stupid stuff. They just require different stupid stuff. Ever had to sign an anti-Iran affidavit for a public contract? Check. How about a pro-Israel declaration? Check.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Republicans don't reduce stupid stuff. They just require different stupid stuff. Ever had to sign an anti-Iran affidavit for a public contract? Check. How about a pro-Israel declaration? Check.

Those two things had and have supermajority support in both parties in Congress and ARE NOT stupid things.

Your ability to make money indiscriminately IS NOT AND NEVER WILL be placed above the ability of our nation and her people collectively to defend ourselves against hostile actors and in the favor of allies—in fact, your ability to prosper is contingent upon our ability to do make these choices, for both you and your descendants.

Anything other interpretations mean that you have lost the plot and care more about your own narrow self-economic-interest than the interests of our people.

[Denver]

No surprise here but the land at 38th and Blake that was originally to be the new home of WTC is now on the market for sale. Hopefully a developer with the ability to do a project of this magnitude will buy it.

[TakeFive]

Funny and Fair

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Republicans don't reduce stupid stuff. They just require different stupid stuff. Ever had to sign an anti-Iran affidavit for a public contract? Check. How about a pro-Israel declaration? Check.

No question that Republicans relish being Big Bullies.

I'm listening to my favorite radio talker (from Tampa Bay) last night who didn't vote for Trump and wouldn't vote for him. He finds DeSantis irritating; mentioned how impressed he was with Nicki Haley's CNN Town Hall. He's more of throwback to when politicians had dignity, integrity - at least as compared to now.

-------------------------

Originally Posted by wwmiv

Those two things had and have supermajority support in both parties in Congress and ARE NOT stupid things.

Your ability to make money indiscriminately IS NOT AND NEVER WILL be placed above the ability of our nation and her people collectively to defend ourselves against hostile actors and in the favor of allies—in fact, your ability to prosper is contingent upon our ability to do make these choices, for both you and your descendants.

Anything other interpretations mean that you have lost the plot and care more about your own narrow self-economic-interest than the interests of our people.

Values, Politics and Policies are a tricky mix. Everybody want to impose their stuff on everybody else. Our true strength is in our diversity, tolerance and even handedness.

For example, making school children recite the Pledge of Allegiance may be harmless but it's surely silly & stupid.

Our growing relationship with Saudi Arabia goes back to the days of GWB. But as we insisted on 'parenting' them in recent years it backfired. They're now cutting deals with Russia, China and other Middle eastern countries. Sort of an in-our-face response to our meddling.

Be careful what you ask for.

[bunt_q]

Nevermind.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

Those two things had and have supermajority support in both parties in Congress and ARE NOT stupid things.

Your ability to make money indiscriminately IS NOT AND NEVER WILL be placed above the ability of our nation and her people collectively to defend ourselves against hostile actors and in the favor of allies—in fact, your ability to prosper is contingent upon our ability to do make these choices, for both you and your descendants.

Anything other interpretations mean that you have lost the plot and care more about your own narrow self-economic-interest than the interests of our people.

Bah. 99% of the folks on here wouldn't know what it takes to defend this nation. I can think of two who have had the intestinal fortitude to do so.

[TakeFive]

Three RiNo office buildings headed for the finish line

T3 RiNo

6 Stories, 235,000-Square-Foot Mass Timber

Here's a fun promo video for this project

• Video Link

The Current
3615 Delgany St

12 Stories and 238,000 Sq Ft

Note: This project is winding down and DenverInfill should have some nice photos coming soon.

Paradigm River North
3400 Walnut St

8 Stories, 200,000 Sq Ft, 40% leased

These three projects
are all projected to be completed and available by the end of the year. The three buildings total 673,000 Sq Ft.

The State of Office Space

What's-his-face with JLL said the 'bottom is in' for the office market. At least Chicago had positive absorption this quarter. At 65% occupancy they still need a lot of help.

There's lots of confusion, mixed signals for what's ahead. Some suggest that companies in the 'tech startup' category may run into a brick wall from a scarcity of additional VC funding.

These three new RiNo projects should be well positioned to capture new leases though.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by mhays

But state and local agencies are often much easier. They have a lot of rules, but probably the majority of the top 30 local GCs will propose for and win their fair shares.

If you look at major projects awards lists - ie anything in the millions moreso than a small contract here and there for the never ending everyday norm gubment needs, there's MAYBE 5 contractors/consultants who compete for state and major local work (of all kinds, not just construction). Not sure what it's like in Washington, but that kind of competition certainly isn't normal here in Colorado, to my knowledge. Qualification, I do not apply for any type of state/local work.

[twalm]

Drove by this site recently and the hole in the ground is HUGE

Originally Posted by Denver

Here are some renderings of the new tower U/C at Belleview Station (4885 S Quebec Street)

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by twalm

Drove by this site recently and the hole in the ground is HUGE

Did it look like an 'active' construction site?

[Whereveryougo]

Yes, this one is definitely under construction and the site is so huge I incorrectly assumed it was two buildings.

Belleview station is an interesting one. I'm sure drivers i.e. the Greenwood and Cherry Hills residents moan all the time about how bad the on ramp is and that capacity needs to be increased, as someone who has to cross Belleview a couple of times each week by foot I'd argue Belleview needs a major road diet.

[TakeFive]

For your curiosity

Originally Posted by Whereveryougo

Yes, this one is definitely under construction and the site is so huge I incorrectly assumed it was two buildings.

Belleview station is an interesting one. I'm sure drivers i.e. the Greenwood and Cherry Hills residents moan all the time about how bad the on ramp is and that capacity needs to be increased, as someone who has to cross Belleview a couple of times each week by foot I'd argue Belleview needs a major road diet.

I-25/Belleview Interchange System Study

I-25 & Belleview Avenue Interchange Improvement Study

Edit: What allowed Belleview Station to be what it is partly goes to that site being a 'dog' until the station happened.

[mishko27]

Originally Posted by Whereveryougo

Yes, this one is definitely under construction and the site is so huge I incorrectly assumed it was two buildings.

Belleview station is an interesting one. I'm sure drivers i.e. the Greenwood and Cherry Hills residents moan all the time about how bad the on ramp is and that capacity needs to be increased, as someone who has to cross Belleview a couple of times each week by foot I'd argue Belleview needs a major road diet.

There's a new crane on the site, so the construction is visibly active now.

I don't think the traffic is too bad, tbh. But all of my older neighbors complain about how much is being built around here, while that is the exact reason why we bought a house in DTC with my husband. Belleview station is lovely, now if only some infill could happen on the east side of Arapahoe station...