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  #2121  
Old Posted May 26, 2023, 6:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Changing City View Post
There's never been any suggestion of needing more tracks than they already have space for. It's only a single track at the moment, and the rail company still hasn't decided whether to add the second track through Strathcona.
Maybe.

The current Flats rail yards are still relatively underused, and the bottleneck with bringing in cargo from the south is the Westminister Bridge, not the Strathcona rail connector.

Most cargo uses the Burrard Inlet CN line still.

I'm just saying it's more likely (and probably smarter) that there are more tracks built to connect to those railyards than it is for them to be removed.
It's not needed right now.
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  #2122  
Old Posted May 26, 2023, 6:27 AM
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Originally Posted by fredinno View Post
Maybe.

The current Flats rail yards are still relatively underused, and the bottleneck with bringing in cargo from the south is the Westminister Bridge, not the Strathcona rail connector.

Most cargo uses the Burrard Inlet CN line still.

I'm just saying it's more likely (and probably smarter) that there are more tracks built to connect to those railyards than it is for them to be removed.
It's not needed right now.
In 2019 CN Railway announced it had signed an agreement with the federal government and the Vancouver Fraser Port Authority to double-track the four-km section of rail that runs from Powell Street near the port then along the eastern edge of the False Creek Flats and through the Grandview Cut to Nanaimo Street.

"The added capacity is necessary to meet the growing cargo traffic volumes coming in and out of the port." They've put that decision on pause for now.

The availability of BNSF's tracks is irrelevant to any of that, and they're seldom used. The CN and Glen Drive tracks these days are heavily used compared to only a few years ago, But the BNSF tracks are used to turn the Canadian round, and there's no alternative for that.
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  #2123  
Old Posted May 26, 2023, 7:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Changing City View Post
In 2019 CN Railway announced it had signed an agreement with the federal government and the Vancouver Fraser Port Authority to double-track the four-km section of rail that runs from Powell Street near the port then along the eastern edge of the False Creek Flats and through the Grandview Cut to Nanaimo Street.

"The added capacity is necessary to meet the growing cargo traffic volumes coming in and out of the port." They've put that decision on pause for now.

The availability of BNSF's tracks is irrelevant to any of that, and they're seldom used. The CN and Glen Drive tracks these days are heavily used compared to only a few years ago, But the BNSF tracks are used to turn the Canadian round, and there's no alternative for that.
Yeah, exactly.
That's my point.

CN can buy up or get an agreement from BNSF to use the tracks (possibly leaving 1 track there or elsewhere to turn around the Canadian.)

They haven't done that because there's not enough demand yet.
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  #2124  
Old Posted May 26, 2023, 1:46 PM
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Originally Posted by fredinno View Post
Yeah, exactly.
That's my point.

CN can buy up or get an agreement from BNSF to use the tracks (possibly leaving 1 track there or elsewhere to turn around the Canadian.)

They haven't done that because there's not enough demand yet.
So you've just wasted everybody's time throwing in irrelevant comments about fantasy tunnel replacements, and finally got to the point of agreeing that BNSF's tracks are under utilized apart from one needing to be used for The Canadian to turn round.

So the initial comment was correct - it might be possible for TransLink to acquire some of the that area for their OM tracks and servicing facility. It's a much more realistic scenario than CN acquiring or using them, as they haven't even gone ahead with adding a second track.
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  #2125  
Old Posted May 26, 2023, 4:05 PM
idunno idunno is offline
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Soon the Canadian won't even need a turn-around, with VIA's new trains. As I understand the current order is only for Quebec-Windsor service, but no doubt they'd replace the long haul fleet next (with bi-directional coaches like the rest).
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  #2126  
Old Posted May 26, 2023, 4:18 PM
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Originally Posted by idunno View Post
Soon the Canadian won't even need a turn-around, with VIA's new trains. As I understand the current order is only for Quebec-Windsor service, but no doubt they'd replace the long haul fleet next (with bi-directional coaches like the rest).
I'm doubtful about how 'soon'. The sleeper cars and park cars on The Canadian were built in 1954, and they're still in good condition having been upgraded several times.
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  #2127  
Old Posted May 26, 2023, 4:33 PM
swimmer_spe swimmer_spe is offline
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I'm doubtful about how 'soon'. The sleeper cars and park cars on The Canadian were built in 1954, and they're still in good condition having been upgraded several times.
Talking to someone in Via, they had said that when the new Long Distance fleet replacement comes in, it will replace everything, even the sleepers. Mind you, we are looking at about 10-15 years.
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  #2128  
Old Posted May 26, 2023, 5:19 PM
jollyburger jollyburger is offline
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Totally off-topic but YOLO

January 30, 2023

Quote:
VIA joins Amtrak in attempting to replace aging passenger cars

VIA Rail Canada has issued a formal request for information from potential manufacturers of locomotives and passenger cars who might be interested in re-equipping the company’s long distance and regional remote passenger trains.

VIA’s appeal comes as Amtrak is evaluating responses received from a similar invitation [see “Amtrak seeks carbuilder interest …,” Trains News Wire, Jan. 19, 2022]. It also is taking place while the equipment the company assesses the structural integrity stainless steel cars built by Budd in the 1940s and 1950s — the cars VIA wants to replace [see “VIA: Need for ‘in-depth’ inspections led to buffer car decision,” News Wire, Oct. 19, 2022].

The Canadian operator’s “Long Distance, Regional, and Remote Fleet Renewal Project notice of market consultation,” issued late Friday, Jan. 27, says VIA is looking to select “a supplier to design, manufacture, test, supply, deliver and commission cars and motive power and ancillary equipment (onboard and offboard) with a prescribed capacity of car types (seated coaches, sleeper, diners, multi-purpose, baggage) through an open competitive procurement process.”

VIA will consult with prospective applicants “to solicit feedback on VIA Rail’s proposed technical specifications, maintenance’s scope of work, as well as commercial and contractual related terms.” This is “to reduce the eventual in-market time [and] ensure requirements clarity … prior to commencement of a formal procurement process.” Parties must sign non-disclosure agreements, due by Feb. 17, before taking part.

A general informational session involving prospective applicants is to take place in March, and confidential meetings with individual carbuilders or consortia will begin in May. P1 Consulting was tapped as a “fairness monitor” to attend all meetings.

The expedited timeline to gauge manufacturer interest and begin substantive discussions essentially acknowledges that any manufacturer involved has already responded to Amtrak’s request for information.

RDC car stopped next to lake
Fishermen unload supplies from the Sudbury-White River Rail Diesel Car at Goldie, Ontario, on June 22, 2012. Such remote services offer equipment needs unique to VIA. Bob Johnston
Unique to VIA’s network, as presently constituted, are remote services in four Canadian provinces. With the exception of the multi-day Winnipeg-Churchill, Manitoba, overnight train, these don’t require a full complement of sleeping, lounge, and dining cars needed for the Ocean (Montreal-Halifax, Nova Scotia) or Canadian (Toronto-Vancouver, British Columbia). One remote route serving areas inaccessible by highways, the tri-weekly Sudbury-White River, Ontario, train, is currently operated with Budd-built Rail Diesel Cars. Another. between The Pas and Pukatawagan, Manitoba, utilizes VIA’s only remaining non-stainless steel cars, ex-Canadian National holdovers, on a twice-weekly mixed train.

Most manufacturing synergies consistent with Amtrak’s equipment needs, however, involve replacing rolling stock on the Ocean and Canadian. New equipment investment has bypassed replacements for cars built more than 60 years ago that currently ply long distance and remote routes. Instead, VIA has bought equipment for the Quebec City-Windsor, Ontario, corridor: Bombardier’s Light Rapid Comfortable in the 1980s, and 32 five-car Siemens Venture trainsets priced at C$989 million (about $750 million U.S.) now being delivered.

Whatever the manufacturer interest, this inquiry does give VIA management a tangible price tag with which to seek government funding necessary to maintain long-distance service.

It comes as the company is poised to roll out new corridor trains but has been shut out of developing a separate passenger-only “High Frequency Rail” route between Quebec City and Toronto. That project has been usurped by Transport Canada, which has created a separate entity to potentially involve private investors [see “Responding to inquiries, Transport Canada adjusts ..,” News Wire, Nov. 1, 2022].

Transport Canada, as the transportation arm of Canada Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s Liberal Party administration, also controls the passenger operator’s priorities and funding. In the mid-1980s, VIA tested borrowed Amtrak Superliners after Bombardier bought the design rights to those cars from the defunct Pullman Standard. The tests in a harsh Canadian winter were successful, but the government of Conservative Prime Minister Brian Mulroney not only passed on an investment which would have benefitted Bombardier, but slashed overall funding, precipitating VIA’s severe 1990 downsizing.

More than 30 years later as VIA again seeks to replace its aging cross-country fleet, the future of Canada’s transcontinental passenger rail system hangs in the balance. “VIA: New trains, new challenges” (March 2023 Trains Magazine) provides an in-depth look at the new Siemens trainsets and the forces impacting Canada’s passenger operator.
https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/...empting-to-replace-aging-passenger-cars/
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  #2129  
Old Posted May 26, 2023, 7:32 PM
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aberdeen5698 aberdeen5698 is offline
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Originally Posted by Changing City View Post
I'm doubtful about how 'soon'. The sleeper cars and park cars on The Canadian were built in 1954, and they're still in good condition having been upgraded several times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by swimmer_spe View Post
Talking to someone in Via, they had said that when the new Long Distance fleet replacement comes in, it will replace everything, even the sleepers. Mind you, we are looking at about 10-15 years.
Oh, man - I'll be really sad to see that Budd equipment on The Canadian put out to pasture. It's a truly classic design that has no equal in my mind. So much so that it earned a spot on the $10 bank note:


Image from cprailmmsub.blogspot.com
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  #2130  
Old Posted May 26, 2023, 7:33 PM
madog222 madog222 is offline
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Originally Posted by jollyburger View Post
Totally off-topic but YOLO
There is a heavy/passenger rail thread.
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  #2131  
Old Posted May 26, 2023, 8:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Changing City View Post
So you've just wasted everybody's time throwing in irrelevant comments about fantasy tunnel replacements, and finally got to the point of agreeing that BNSF's tracks are under utilized apart from one needing to be used for The Canadian to turn round.

So the initial comment was correct - it might be possible for TransLink to acquire some of the that area for their OM tracks and servicing facility. It's a much more realistic scenario than CN acquiring or using them, as they haven't even gone ahead with adding a second track.

TBF, if you had read my comment more thoroughly, you would never have gotten outraged, and none of this would have been needed.
The comment about the Dunsmuir Tunnel was a throwaway line.

This is your fault, not mine.


And yes, it's theoretically possible to build an OMC there.
But that's dumb, and won't happen, and shouldn't happen.
Any more than redeveloping any other part of the Flats for an OMC (and the corner of Beeg and Evans was undeveloped for the longest time, so it's not like there wasn't any other space available in the Flats).

We already got rid of most of the rail yards in DT.
Where would we put the trains for the ports if we run out of space in the Flats?
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  #2132  
Old Posted May 26, 2023, 8:37 PM
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Originally Posted by fredinno View Post

TBF, if you had read my comment more thoroughly, you would never have gotten outraged, and none of this would have been needed.
The comment about the Dunsmuir Tunnel was a throwaway line.

This is your fault, not mine.


And yes, it's theoretically possible to build an OMC there.
But that's dumb, and won't happen, and shouldn't happen.
Any more than redeveloping any other part of the Flats for an OMC (and the corner of Beeg and Evans was undeveloped for the longest time, so it's not like there wasn't any other space available in the Flats).

We already got rid of most of the rail yards in DT.
Where would we put the trains for the ports if we run out of space in the Flats?
I appreciate that the best thing to do with many of your rambling comments is throw them away.

The rail companies, according to you, are barely using the Flats railyards now. Additional capacity has been added for container movement at Centerm, and it would seem that there's enough space already for the trains that access the Port. They've added intermodal rail capacity within the terminal.

The BNSF tracks are under utilized, and putting an OMC there seems better than leaving them unused for another decade or two. CN tore up tracks and sold off some of their land along Terminal a few years ago, where various car dealerships and the CRA offices are now - so they seem unlikely to want to add more track ownership. It seems likely that TransLink will find somewhere else, but it's not a dumb idea that they might look at the space adjacent to the existing SkyTrain. Evans would make far less sense as it would have been much more difficult to access, and is in multiple ownerships.
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  #2133  
Old Posted May 26, 2023, 8:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Changing City View Post
I appreciate that the best thing to do with many of your rambling comments is throw them away.

The rail companies, according to you, are barely using the Flats railyards now. Additional capacity has been added for container movement at Centerm, and it would seem that there's enough space already for the trains that access the Port. They've added intermodal rail capacity within the terminal.

The BNSF tracks are under utilized, and putting an OMC there seems better than leaving them unused for another decade or two. CN tore up tracks and sold off some of their land along Terminal a few years ago, where various car dealerships and the CRA offices are now - so they seem unlikely to want to add more track ownership. It seems likely that TransLink will find somewhere else, but it's not a dumb idea that they might look at the space adjacent to the existing SkyTrain. Evans would make far less sense as it would have been much more difficult to access, and is in multiple ownerships.
You do that all the time, sir.

Quote:
CN tore up tracks and sold off some of their land along Terminal a few years ago, where various car dealerships and the CRA offices are now
[Citation Needed]
I know they tore up the spur connecting directly to the warehouses, but that's because warehouses rarely load onto rail cars directly anymore. It wasn't a rail yard.



And as I pointed out in the previous comment that started this all, all the OMCs minus the Richmond one are in areas not vulnerable to earthquakes or flooding, so they can still operate after a disaster.

The Flats are not one of those places.


Hence, why I keep suggesting the Cariboo Heights.
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  #2134  
Old Posted May 26, 2023, 9:01 PM
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Originally Posted by fredinno View Post
[Citation Needed]
I know they tore up the spur connecting directly to the warehouses, but that's because warehouses rarely load onto rail cars directly anymore. It wasn't a rail yard.
Sorry you can't access a search engine. They could have added more tracks, instead of the warehouses and tracks in the rail yard that they sold off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredinno View Post
And as I pointed out in the previous comment that started this all, all the OMCs minus the Richmond one are in areas not vulnerable to earthquakes or flooding, so they can still operate after a disaster.

The Flats are not one of those places.
The Flats don't, and won't flood, (Citygate is in the way, and they'll have to deal with sea level rise for the entire False Creek area) and it's perfectly possible to build an OMC so that it isn't affected by an earthquake, just like the new hospital, and all the office buildings being built along Great Northern Way.
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  #2135  
Old Posted May 26, 2023, 9:07 PM
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fredinno fredinno is offline
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Originally Posted by Changing City View Post
Sorry you can't access a search engine. They could have added more tracks, instead of the warehouses and tracks that they sold off.

The Flats don't, and won't flood, (Citygate is in the way, and they'll have to deal with sea level rise for the entire False Creek area) and it's perfectly possible to build an OMC so that it isn't affected by an earthquake, just like the new hospital, and all the office buildings being built along Great Northern Way.
First off, stop being passive-aggressive.


Second, in fairness, 1999 is a lot more than 'a few years ago.'
That's why I couldn't find it.

Also, things change in 20 years.


Right, it's not like the St. Paul's Hospital also had to deal with flooding:
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/st-pauls...k-flats-flooding-earthquake-liquefaction


Yes, it's possible to mitigate (eg. building the OMC semi-elevated on deep foundations.)

It's also not really a good idea to do that if you can avoid it (which you can).

St. Paul's is being built where it is because there really weren't any other good options. Same thing with the Richmond OMC.

Just build it somewhere else near the tracks and spare the effort.
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  #2136  
Old Posted May 26, 2023, 9:41 PM
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Tvisforme Tvisforme is online now
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Originally Posted by fredinno View Post
....[Citation Needed]
This isn't Wikipedia. Also, once again, I would encourage you to make better use of paragraphs, formatting, and judicious trimming of quoted material. That would make your posts more readable which means that more people would read them. Do with this what you will.
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  #2137  
Old Posted May 26, 2023, 11:20 PM
swimmer_spe swimmer_spe is offline
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Originally Posted by aberdeen5698 View Post
Oh, man - I'll be really sad to see that Budd equipment on The Canadian put out to pasture. It's a truly classic design that has no equal in my mind. So much so that it earned a spot on the $10 bank note:


Image from cprailmmsub.blogspot.com
I agree that it will be sad to see it go, but unfortunately they are aging and eventually it becomes a safety issue.Maybe the new fleet can be built to look as timeless as the current fleet looks.

.... or maybe they use a new fleet for regular service and the old fleet as an excursion train with luxury services.
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  #2138  
Old Posted May 26, 2023, 11:53 PM
madog222 madog222 is offline
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Getting back on topic...

Phyllis has arrived at Alberta St. (Broadway - City Hall station). Phyllis averaged ~16.2m/day.


Tunnel Boring Machine Phyllis Arrives at Broadway-City Hall Station
by B.C. Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure, on Flickr
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  #2139  
Old Posted May 27, 2023, 12:25 AM
officedweller officedweller is offline
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Nice!
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  #2140  
Old Posted May 27, 2023, 1:15 AM
Hooknose Hooknose is offline
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is Elsie moving to Oak

I just read the DH article on Phyllis.

The article also says, "Elsie, the first tunnel-boring machine, achieved the same milestone on April 14, 2023, and is now well on her way towards the mid-way point of the five-km-long underground segment, with her next breakthrough being the pit of Oak-VGH Station at Laurel Street. Elsie is building the eastbound tunnel."

Has Elsie left Cambie Street and nobody noticed???
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