HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > Vancouver > Business & the Economy


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1161  
Old Posted May 19, 2023, 6:50 AM
Migrant_Coconut's Avatar
Migrant_Coconut Migrant_Coconut is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Kitsilano/Fairview
Posts: 10,112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klazu View Post
I am really interested to see how the recent transit stab-athlon may have impacted transit numbers. Probably still early to have such recent numbers.
You'll find the likely answer in the transit thread. This is the office thread.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1162  
Old Posted May 19, 2023, 2:59 PM
FarmerHaight's Avatar
FarmerHaight FarmerHaight is offline
Peddling to progress
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Vancouver's West End
Posts: 1,631
Quote:
Originally Posted by Changing City View Post
The internet is known to encourage negativity, and we all know the few regular posters who seem to spend their life trolling the internet and media for 'bad things that happen' in order to share it with us all. It seems like a sad way to spend a life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
You'll find the likely answer in the transit thread. This is the office thread.
For the record, I imagine jollyburger and madog may also be annoyed at us for responding to, and drawing out, some of the negative drivel brought to us by whatnext, Klazu, and others. I may be wrong, but I am just trying to exercise some self-awareness here.

I don't know what the solution is. I certainly don't want factually incorrect or hysterical posts sitting out there unchallenged, but it doesn't seem like anyone who engages with those posts succeeds in winning hearts and minds...
__________________
“Nothing compares to the simple pleasure of riding a bike” – John F Kennedy
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1163  
Old Posted May 19, 2023, 3:26 PM
CanSpice's Avatar
CanSpice CanSpice is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 2,712
Quote:
Originally Posted by FarmerHaight View Post
I don't know what the solution is.
Two solutions: one and two.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1164  
Old Posted May 24, 2023, 3:17 AM
officedweller officedweller is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 41,586
Slate Cancels Capital Point Metrotown AAA Strata Office Project


https://storeys.com/capital-point-metrot...opment-cancelled-slate-asset-management/
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1165  
Old Posted May 29, 2023, 6:28 PM
Migrant_Coconut's Avatar
Migrant_Coconut Migrant_Coconut is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Kitsilano/Fairview
Posts: 10,112
From the DH article:
Quote:
... As a result of the decision to cancel the project in its current form, Slate has terminated all purchase agreements for the strata office space and provided a full refund on any deposits, along with any interest accrued to date.

They add that they have now deemed the “best use” for the property is a mix of residential and commercial uses, and will be returning to the municipal government this year with a new rezoning application outlining a revised redevelopment strategy...
So they're still considering a project, just not as offices. Temporary post-lockdown setback, or indication of lack of overall demand outside the core? Take your pick.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1166  
Old Posted May 29, 2023, 9:35 PM
LeftCoaster's Avatar
LeftCoaster LeftCoaster is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Toroncouver
Posts: 13,131
Covid slowdown or not this was a mediocre location for AAA offices and a late attempt to jump on what was at the time a very hot strata office market.

This is a better location for a smaller office building and a large residential development with retail frontage onto Kingsway. Hopefully that's what we see here.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1167  
Old Posted May 29, 2023, 10:01 PM
mcj mcj is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: New West
Posts: 1,182
When 200k sq.ft. of office space is too much, that also does speak to the ability of our region to meaningfully shift office space away from the downtown core. However a mixed use development makes more sense here, with residential to get the height up. Had Bosa/Keltic continued on with the 70 storey building at 4444 Kingsway this would have looked way too small beside it, and still will likely with the new 59 storey development. Something in the 40+ floor range would be more suitable.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1168  
Old Posted May 29, 2023, 10:06 PM
jollyburger jollyburger is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 15,623
To fill the Burrard Place building

Quote:
Lululemon promises 2,600 new jobs after exemption from some immigration rules

Vancouver-based company Lululemon says it will expand its headquarters in the city and create 2,600 jobs over the next five years.

The announcement comes months after the federal government granted the company the ability to hire foreign workers for certain highly skilled positions, including management jobs, software engineers and computer technicians, without needing to apply for a labour market impact assessment.

Federal Innovation Minister François-Philippe Champagne says if Ottawa hadn't acted, the company's headquarters may have left Vancouver.

CEO Calvin McDonald says Lululemon has secured an additional 125,000 square feet of office space in downtown Vancouver because of the confidence it has in the agreement.

Nike sues Lululemon for infringement of footwear patents
"As a proudly Canadian brand, we are fortunate to be in partnership with the provincial and federal governments, who were able to move this forward for us," McDonald said in a government release Thursday.

Lululemon employed nearly 9,000 people in Canada in 2022, the release said.

A labour market impact assessment is a process sometimes used to determine if a company needs a foreign worker to fill a position because of a lack of Canadian workers or permanent residents available to do the job.

Immigration Minister Sean Fraser says Canada won't be able to meet the domestic needs of the economy with an exclusively domestic labour force and the entire world is competing for talent.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/lululemon-2600-jobs-immigration-exemption-1.6855906
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1169  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2023, 1:00 AM
jollyburger jollyburger is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 15,623
Did Hootsuite move into those new Main Alley buildings or did they dump some of their office space on West 8th?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1170  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2023, 1:57 AM
madog222 madog222 is online now
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by jollyburger View Post
Did Hootsuite move into those new Main Alley buildings or did they dump some of their office space on West 8th?
They've moved out of 5 E 8th consolidating at 111 E 5th which is part of Main Alley but not the new building.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1171  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2023, 7:31 PM
whatnext whatnext is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 27,679
Significant offering for sale:

Amazon’s Vancouver office building put up for sale by pension funds
Ari Altstedter, Bloomberg News

An Amazon.com Inc. office building in Vancouver, along with a neighboring tower, are up for sale by two of Canada’s largest pension funds, according to people familiar with the sales process.

Oxford Properties, the real estate arm of the pension fund representing Ontario’s municipal workers, and the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board expect to get about $350 million for the buildings at 402 Dunsmuir St. and 401 West Georgia St., according to the people, who asked not to be named because the discussions are private.

After last year’s sharp rise in borrowing costs froze the market for Canadian office buildings, the sale of the two Vancouver properties would be the first significant office transaction in the country since last April, when a tower in downtown Toronto traded hands for about $380 million, according to data from CBRE Group Inc. that analyzed deals of more than $200 million.

Office owners have been grappling with even higher borrowing costs since that sale last year, as well as changing appetite from tenants given the rise in remote work and layoffs. Oxford and CPPIB’s potential sale of the two Vancouver buildings will be the first clue as to what such office towers are worth in the new environment.

The two pension funds are seeking to manage their exposure to Vancouver’s office market and have opted to sell more mature projects given that they are nearing completion on another new office tower with about 51,100 square meters of space, according to two people familiar with the matter. Both buildings that are being put up for sale are fully leased, with the one on Dunsmuir completed in 2020....


https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/amazon-s-van...t-up-for-sale-by-pension-funds-1.1938698
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1172  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2023, 7:55 PM
LeftCoaster's Avatar
LeftCoaster LeftCoaster is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Toroncouver
Posts: 13,131
Very interesting to see what the market thinks of these. They aren't trophy assets but they're pretty decent and I expect they will get snapped up at a decent rate.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1173  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2023, 9:10 PM
TwoFace's Avatar
TwoFace TwoFace is offline
Dig-it
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Downtown
Posts: 956
Lots of folks must be just thrilled by this prediction ...

"In the U.S., a report by research firm Capital Economics predicted the switch to remote or hybrid work will cause office building values in that country to plunge 35 per cent from the peak by the end of 2025, and take at least another 15 years to recover after that"
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1174  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2023, 9:46 PM
whatnext whatnext is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 27,679
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoFace View Post
Lots of folks must be just thrilled by this prediction ...

"In the U.S., a report by research firm Capital Economics predicted the switch to remote or hybrid work will cause office building values in that country to plunge 35 per cent from the peak by the end of 2025, and take at least another 15 years to recover after that"
In many markets office has taken a big hit. As Leftcoaster says, it will be interesting to see hw the market values these two buildings as it will give an indication of how bullish the office market is in vancouver.

The Telework Culture is Threatening Downtown
-As double-digit vacancy rates persist, consider these headwinds facing commercial real estate across North America.
Yan Barcelo 10 January, 2023

In the U.S., a study predicts that work from home will prompt an “apocalypse” for downtown office real estate, but things don’t seem as gloomy in Canada.

“Physical office occupancy in the major office markets of the U.S. fell from 95% at the end of February 2020 to 10% at the end of March 2020 and has remained depressed ever since, only gradually creeping back to 47% by November 2022,” write three researchers in a recent paper.

The authors claim that commercial office buildings “may become a stranded asset in the wake of disruptions resulting from remote work”, especially with lower-quality properties. In the short term, they calculate that the value of office buildings has declined by 44.8%, and in the long run, up to 2029, should stabilize around a 39.2% loss....


https://www.morningstar.ca/ca/news/230648/the-telework-culture-is-threatening-downtown.aspx
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1175  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2023, 9:59 PM
TwoFace's Avatar
TwoFace TwoFace is offline
Dig-it
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Downtown
Posts: 956
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
In the short term, they calculate that the value of office buildings has declined by 44.8%, and in the long run, up to 2029, should stabilize around a 39.2% loss....[/I]

https://www.morningstar.ca/ca/news/230648/the-telework-culture-is-threatening-downtown.aspx
How long before developers start considering repurposing these, as Anthem did with the Cube.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1176  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2023, 10:23 PM
s211 s211 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The People's Glorious Republic of ... Sigh...
Posts: 8,503
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoFace View Post
Lots of folks must be just thrilled by this prediction ...

"In the U.S., a report by research firm Capital Economics predicted the switch to remote or hybrid work will cause office building values in that country to plunge 35 per cent from the peak by the end of 2025, and take at least another 15 years to recover after that"
It's armageddon time for both equity and debt in US office properties. The scale is astounding, and not a cool way. I wonder when Canada might see the same scale of drama.
__________________
If it seems I'm ignoring what you may have written in response to something I have written, it's very likely that you're on my Ignore List. Please do not take it personally.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1177  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2023, 10:26 PM
fredinno's Avatar
fredinno fredinno is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,317
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
In many markets office has taken a big hit. As Leftcoaster says, it will be interesting to see hw the market values these two buildings as it will give an indication of how bullish the office market is in vancouver.

The Telework Culture is Threatening Downtown
-As double-digit vacancy rates persist, consider these headwinds facing commercial real estate across North America.
Yan Barcelo 10 January, 2023

In the U.S., a study predicts that work from home will prompt an “apocalypse” for downtown office real estate, but things don’t seem as gloomy in Canada.

“Physical office occupancy in the major office markets of the U.S. fell from 95% at the end of February 2020 to 10% at the end of March 2020 and has remained depressed ever since, only gradually creeping back to 47% by November 2022,” write three researchers in a recent paper.

The authors claim that commercial office buildings “may become a stranded asset in the wake of disruptions resulting from remote work”, especially with lower-quality properties. In the short term, they calculate that the value of office buildings has declined by 44.8%, and in the long run, up to 2029, should stabilize around a 39.2% loss....


https://www.morningstar.ca/ca/news/230648/the-telework-culture-is-threatening-downtown.aspx
That's true for downtown real estate, but suburban offices are doing fine still (not booming, but not really having massive increases in vacancy.)

Vancouver is also still at normal vacancy levels, and so this will just be a level-off of future office projects for a decade or so.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1178  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2023, 2:13 AM
NewfBC NewfBC is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 1,330
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoFace View Post
How long before developers start considering repurposing these, as Anthem did with the Cube.
This has been happening in Calgary frequently over the past couple years.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/c...uildings-converted-residential-1.6816052


Ron.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1179  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2023, 2:26 AM
Denscity Denscity is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Laramidia
Posts: 12,776
Ya Calgary has had an embarrassing level of empty office buildings for years now.
That's why their boosterism on SSP ended.
__________________
Peak SSP:

28C is hotter than 42C
Vancouver is not on the ocean but Quebec City is.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1180  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2023, 3:04 PM
SFUVancouver's Avatar
SFUVancouver SFUVancouver is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 6,681
I think there will be a perverse benefit to Vancouver's historic lack of large-scale office buildings and general market orientation towards small- to mid-size tenancies because it will make it easier for companies to right-size their office space without running up against the leasing and subletting constraints of large floorplates. For building owners, while it's obviously ideal to have a large tenant take up some or all of a building, having the ability to accommodate subletting or floor-shedding without the awkwardness of trying to demise a very large floorplate building should help keep up leasable area efficiency.

Moreover, if we do encounter a wave of Class B and C office conversions to residential, and conceivably even some partial or total conversions of certain Class A product, the smaller floorplates are more readily adapted to the generally shallow configuration of residential uses and the need for daylighting of bedrooms. Though, on that note, there is precedent from the Yaletown warehouse residential conversions to permit interior bedrooms without daylighting, provided that the primary bedroom has this (either directly, or in an open concept loft-configuration). Perhaps there may be some accommodation for this in office to residential conversions? There would already been need to waive the requirement for suites to have outdoor living space (patios/decks).

The fairly diverse office tenancy of Vancouver should also help it weather sector-specific downturns that may result from broader economic inflection points, such as the anticipated reduction in employment for tasks that can be wholly automated or fundamentally reshaped through the adoption of AI. This is nothing entirely new, but like the elimination of 'typing pool' and 'secretarial pool', and near elimination of executive secretaries, the space needs and composition of the office were slowly but inexorably reshaped through the wholesale adoption of the computer, word processor, and means for direct communication (e.g. direct dial phones and multiple lines, personal printers, voicemail, fax, email, cell phones, smartphones with email, video conferencing, laptops, the proliferation of courier services, etc.).

With respect to so-called AI, someone described the current large language model (LLM) AIs as "word calculators" and that really resonated and stuck with me. I fully expect that portions of my job, for example, will soon shift to telling an AI what to write, editing the output, and using that in the course of creating my overeall work products. In much the same way I could spend hours doing long-hand arithmetic or plugging figures into a calculator, using Excel to manage information and perform math is just wildly more efficient. Likewise, I could, hypothetically, develop the skillset to manually manipulate images, plans, and maps, but Illustrator is wildly more efficient at this, too. I am still using the program to accomplish the task I want, but I'm not necessarily doing all the work on a number by number or pixel by pixel basis. A few hours spent in Illustrator creating a map could yield the same thing a talented draftsperson would have produced with pen and paper fifty years ago. But while that would have been their whole skillset, for me that is just one small part of the overall set of skills that I need to use to do my job. Of course it's frustrating that the productivity benefits that have accrued over the decades have not flowed, by and large, to the person that posses the required skills, but that's another story.

For my work, I think that AI-based tools will very soon be used to generate repetitive or high-level (i.e. not very important) blocks of text for a document. It will be a new tool that lets me save me time by offloading certain types of work onto a machine. If integrated with a credible search tool, as opposed to the current crop of AI's propensity to make shit up, I could also see it being contextually aware enough to populate and cite current figures and statistics as part of the generation of text. I think that the fundamental skill of operating a LLM AI tool will be being able to craft effective prompts. I would not be surprised if a very light-touch programming language were to emerge for 'power users' who want to get the most out of the tool, as opposed to the general public who may use it as a toy or engage at only a superficial level. Ultimately this will result in the creation of LLM AI APIs and simplified user interfaces that would let the programming language back end be interacted with in a more user friendly manner. Ultimately, I will still be operating the LLM AI as a tool that will let me do my job and keep up with the expectations of the skillset a professional in my field must possess.
__________________
VANCOUVER | Beautiful, Multicultural | Canada's Pacific Metropolis

Last edited by SFUVancouver; Jun 28, 2023 at 3:46 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > Vancouver > Business & the Economy
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 5:16 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.