Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[madog222]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Does it matter?
You're repainting and repaving the road anyways to build the SkyTrain, since you're not going to be plowing viaducts directly into asphalt pavement.

Exactly. It’s a bus lane, there is no Right of Way.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Does it matter?
You're repainting and repaving the road anyways to build the SkyTrain, since you're not going to be plowing viaducts directly into asphalt pavement.

Not necessarily Skytrain, a centre lane RoW would make surface level rail a viable option too.

Originally Posted by madog222

Exactly. It’s a bus lane, there is no Right of Way.

BRT (which this is close to but is not) is characterized by a right of way, and the design for the 72 Ave intersection looks very close to it. If the design of the 72nd Ave intersection spanned the entirety of Scott Road, I would call that a right of way.

[Helvetia]

Any reason why the bus priority lane is discontinuous between roughly 90 Ave and 99 Ave? The freight tracks have two crossings in this section.


Photo from page 7 of R6 backgrounder.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Probably the freight tracks, yeah.

WRT surface rail, it hasn’t even been five years since we scrapped the last half-baked streetcar plan – let’s not jump into another.

[madog222]

Originally Posted by chowhou

Not necessarily Skytrain, a centre lane RoW would make surface level rail a viable option too.

BRT (which this is close to but is not) is characterized by a right of way, and the design for the 72 Ave intersection looks very close to it. If the design of the 72nd Ave intersection spanned the entirety of Scott Road, I would call that a right of way.

There is no legal right-of-way being established for the R6. It’s being constructed within the existing road right-of-way.

As much of the road is free to be used for rail transit as desired, only limited by it being Major Road Network.

Using a more broad right of way meaning, the only benefit is less realignment of vehicle lanes. Doing that during construction of a skytrain or LRT line has a negligible cost compared to the entire line construction cost so I don’t see that as a valid argument.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by madog222

There is no legal right-of-way being established for the R6. It’s being constructed within the existing road right-of-way.

As much of the road is free to be used for rail transit as desired, only limited by it being Major Road Network.

Using a more broad right of way meaning, the only benefit is less realignment of vehicle lanes. Doing that during construction of a skytrain or LRT line has a negligible cost compared to the entire line construction cost so I don’t see that as a valid argument.

They need to start to expand the priority ROW to acquired ROW instead of building new R-Lines so that buses aren't going in and out of the bus priority lanes.

[whatnext]

Not exactly the kind of headline that gets people into transit:

Stranger attack on board SkyTrain, third stabbing on public transit this week
Published April 15, 2023 12:19 p.m. PDT

SURREY – A man was stabbed by a stranger while riding the SkyTrain early Saturday morning, according to Metro Transit Police.

Police said it happened shortly after 1 a.m. at Surrey Central SkyTrain station….

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/stranger-attack-on...ng-on-public-transit-this-week-1.6357178

[Migrant_Coconut]

If the worst plague in a hundred years didn't end the SkyTrain, a few assaults definitely won't.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

If the worst plague in a hundred years didn't end the SkyTrain, a few assaults definitely won't.

Who said anything about ending it? With its continual government handouts it can limp on forever. It’s just not a very convincing pitch to increase ridership.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

If the worst plague in a hundred years didn't end the SkyTrain, a few assaults definitely won't.

Ridership has still not fully recovered from COVID, though.

If anything, the Pandemic is proof that people don't take transit if they don't feel safe on it.

I'm not saying this is the end, but I am saying we need more enforcement to prevent this from happening again.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by fredinno

I'm not saying this is the end, but I am saying we need more enforcement to prevent this from happening again.

enforcement of what? almost all of these are people who the courts let out.

the changes to bail is what caused this. its made policing basically pointless for these vagrants.

there is nothing that the police, or people can do at this point. its literally the courts and the federal governments fault for all of this.


you cant defend yourself here. youll get in more trouble then the attacker. if you're law abiding, have a job, pay taxes, etc. the courts will punish you. you cant even have pepper spray here ffs. hell cities have even started banning bear spray in cities. since "you dont need it."

if you're a vagrant who constantly vandalizes, steals, assaults, harasses people; you get a free pass.

we are at this point where there is no legal way for you to defend yourself and no legal way the police can stop someone from doing these things.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Who said anything about ending it? With its continual government handouts it can limp on forever. It’s just not a very convincing pitch to increase ridership.

Ridership's rebounding to 2015/16 levels, actually. It seems like the 99.999997% of people who don't get stabbed still find it convenient, and as long as they do, SkyTrain (unlike any of our free roads/bridges/highways) actually pays for itself upfront.

Originally Posted by fredinno

... I'm not saying this is the end, but I am saying we need more enforcement to prevent this from happening again.

Never said we don't.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

you cant even have pepper spray here ffs. hell cities have even started banning bear spray in cities. since "you dont need it."

As bad as pepper spray is, it's still way better than a knife or a gun. I know that if I had to defend myself I'd feel far less guilt about spraying an attacker than knifing or shooting them.

I have bear spray that I take with me when I'm hiking alone. I don't carry it in the city because I don't go places that I feel unsafe. But if I were a woman I think I'd carry some even if it was illegal because I feel like the consequences of using it if necessary would be far less than the consequences of not being able to defend myself.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

As bad as pepper spray is, it's still way better than a knife or a gun. I know that if I had to defend myself I'd feel far less guilt about spraying an attacker than knifing or shooting them.

I have bear spray that I take with me when I'm hiking alone. I don't carry it in the city because I don't go places that I feel unsafe. But if I were a woman I think I'd carry some even if it was illegal because I feel like the consequences of using it if necessary would be far less than the consequences of not being able to defend myself.

that's the point I'm making though. its perfectly reasonable to want to do those things. and since things are getting worse, because of the government, its perfectly reasonable for a person to feel the need to do this. everyone has the human right to protect themselves, their family/friends, and their own property.

but it is illegal. the same people who are making reasonable people need a way to defend themselves, also punish contributing members of society for defending themselves.

it is absolutely and utterly disgusting that this is the society we have created for ourselves. i dont care if criminals kill eachother. but i do care when innocent people are killed. and thats what is now happening; literally. no exaggeration.

you can be sitting in a train station, minding your own business, and someone comes up and randomly stabs you to death. walking down the street. sitting on a bus. someone who the courts have let out countless times; someone who has violated conditions countless times; someone who has ignored court dates; someone who has committed violent crimes against people before.

and there is not one thing anyone of us can do about it. its disgusting.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

that's the point I'm making though. its perfectly reasonable to want to do those things. and since things are getting worse, because of the government, its perfectly reasonable for a person to feel the need to do this. everyone has the human right to protect themselves, their family/friends, and their own property.

but it is illegal. the same people who are making reasonable people need a way to defend themselves, also punish contributing members of society for defending themselves.

it is absolutely and utterly disgusting that this is the society we have created for ourselves. i dont care if criminals kill eachother. but i do care when innocent people are killed. and thats what is now happening; literally. no exaggeration.

you can be sitting in a train station, minding your own business, and someone comes up and randomly stabs you to death. walking down the street. sitting on a bus. someone who the courts have let out countless times; someone who has violated conditions countless times; someone who has ignored court dates; someone who has committed violent crimes against people before.

and there is not one thing anyone of us can do about it. its disgusting.

We already have this thread for you to complain about the utter downfall of society.

[Migrant_Coconut]

You're about 90x more likely to get hit by a car today than stabbed on a SkyTrain, but nobody jumps into the road & highway thread with an axe to grind every time there's a hit and run.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

You're about 90x more likely to get hit by a car today than stabbed on a SkyTrain, but nobody jumps into the road & highway thread with an axe to grind every time there's a hit and run.

You're way less likely to get killed by the Boeing 787 MAX (or airplanes in general)- and look how much people made about that.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

You're about 90x more likely to get hit by a car today than stabbed on a SkyTrain, but nobody jumps into the road & highway thread with an axe to grind every time there's a hit and run.

I'm pretty careful when driving, cycling and walking and I'm pretty confident that my chances of getting hit by a car are lower than for the average person. Yeah, I know the old saw about how almost everyone thinks that they're "above average", but I watch countless people engrossed in their cell phones both while waking across the street and while driving. I don't do either of those, have my head on a swivel when I'm on the road, and so far over many decades I've been accident free.

So I feel like I have a fair bit of control over my risk in normal life. It's the things I can't control that worry me more, and assaults tend to fall into that category. I can avoid the areas I consider to be less reputable, but it's harder to avoid less reputable people who choose to take public transit.

If transit starts to be perceived as dangerous, then it will undo years of progress. I'm not sure exactly what needs to be done, but it seems like we're getting to the point where some sort of action needs to be taken.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

... I'm not sure exactly what needs to be done, but it seems like we're getting to the point where some sort of action needs to be taken.

Again, not saying otherwise, but exactly what does TransLink do which they aren't already?

Even Tokyo gets crazy knife-wielders on the train, sometimes only a few months apart; so far, it hasn't really made a dent in ridership.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Again, not saying otherwise, but exactly what does TransLink do which they aren't already?

Even Tokyo gets crazy knife-wielders on the train, sometimes only a few months apart; so far, it hasn't really made a dent in ridership.

Try driving in Tokyo on a regular basis.

A better comparison is decline in ridership in other NA cities from increasing criminality.