Canadian Retail Thread

[GreatTallNorth2]

Originally Posted by casper

Same way as McCafe (aka McDonalds) is successful in Europe. It is cheap, it has caffeine and sugar. Toss in a good marketing department. They are all set.

I can understand that McDonalds is successful in Europe, it has name brand recognition all over the world. They might even sell a few coffees. Europe and the UK (and South Korea) have a lot of big chains (Costa, Cafe Nero, Pret, Joe & the Juice) that sell real espresso based coffee with a barista who at least has some training. The best a Tim Hortons or McDonalds might have is an automatic, push button machine that cannot compare. And from what I know, South Korea, like Australia is at a higher level. Canada and the US is definitely in the low end category when it comes to what we accept as coffee. I really wish some of the UK chains would setup shop here - seeing as Costa was recently purchased by Coke, that might actually happen.

[esquire]

Is Zellers-mania still running wild through our cities and our towns? Or has it subsided?

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by esquire

Is Zellers-mania still running wild through our cities and our towns? Or has it subsided?

I totally forgot about Zellers at The Bay. I haven’t checked it out yet.

It was good for getting some website/social media traffic for a week.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

My buddy is getting hyped up for the T&T opening up in Fairview Mall and the little Asian foodcourt they have already opened parts of it.

Should be interesting



https://www.blogto.com/eat_drink/202...-food-toronto/

I’ll have to check that out next time I’m in that part of Toronto. Last time I was in that mall was shortly after Sears closed, seems like a lot of changes since then.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

I can understand that McDonalds is successful in Europe, it has name brand recognition all over the world. They might even sell a few coffees. Europe and the UK (and South Korea) have a lot of big chains (Costa, Cafe Nero, Pret, Joe & the Juice) that sell real espresso based coffee with a barista who at least has some training. The best a Tim Hortons or McDonalds might have is an automatic, push button machine that cannot compare. And from what I know, South Korea, like Australia is at a higher level. Canada and the US is definitely in the low end category when it comes to what we accept as coffee. I really wish some of the UK chains would setup shop here - seeing as Costa was recently purchased by Coke, that might actually happen.

I think that varies by region in both the US and Canada. There’s no Dunkin on the US west coast, and Tim Hortons is far less predominant in BC than in other provinces. Starbucks rules the roost in the three west coast states and at least prior to 2021 was ubiquitous in the Vancouver area; New Westminster alone had at least 8 locations, and only two Tim Hortons. A lot more independent coffee shops in the four states/provinces than I’m used to out east.

BC, Washington, Oregon, and to some extent California take good coffee pretty seriously. Two of the best coffee shops I’ve been to were in Portland.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

I totally forgot about Zellers at The Bay. I haven’t checked it out yet.

It was good for getting some website/social media traffic for a week.

The reason I asked is I actually went to my local Hudson's Bay IRL to find a Mother's Day gift. I stumbled upon the Zellers, I had forgotten it was there.

I took a quick glance and it looked more chic and curated than the Zellers of old, which was typically frumpy... it's a little reminiscent of Target but with obviously far, far less stock.

Maybe it's because it was a Thursday night but there was no one there, my kids were probably the only people under 40 on the whole second floor of the store.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

South Korea has a culture of high end, espresso based cafes. I am not sure how Tim Hortons fits into that environment, but then again I do not know how they can operate in the UK, Spain, and the middle east as their product is so bland and there are so many better coffee and food options out there in these countries.

I saw a review video done by a few people in the UK who visited a new Tim's location. The food was much fancier and of better quality than what we have in Canada. The drink selections other than the coffee seemed to be much higher-end. The reviewers thought everything was very good considering what they had paid. In Canada, Tim's has taken its customers for granted and my prediction is that there will be some bad years ahead unless there is focus on higher qualify and/or better value.

[esquire]

^ Tim's will continue selling what it does for the same reason that Walmart isn't suddenly going to start stocking Yves Saint Laurent clothing. They each have their clientele and they aren't going to suddenly alienate them with something that their customers aren't interested in. It's smart business on their part IMO.

[yaletown_fella]

Tims is a joke now, at least in my experience.

I just went to order a large black coffee after my work today on Bay Street and as I went to grab a seat the worker yelled "no dine in"

Theres no point in going to these places unless you are driving and in a pinch or wanting to sit down to get away from home and relax/people watch.

Going to buy a thermos mug tommorow and just make all my coffee from home.

This understaffing and grab&go nonsense is going to backfire on tims and starbucks . Defeats the whole point of going there. Only makes sense if you are using the drive through.

Why buy sub par coffee in a to-go cup that will get cold within 10 minutes of going outside.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

I think that varies by region in both the US and Canada. There’s no Dunkin on the US west coast, and Tim Hortons is far less predominant in BC than in other provinces. Starbucks rules the roost in the three west coast states and at least prior to 2021 was ubiquitous in the Vancouver area; New Westminster alone had at least 8 locations, and only two Tim Hortons. A lot more independent coffee shops in the four states/provinces than I’m used to out east.

BC, Washington, Oregon, and to some extent California take good coffee pretty seriously. Two of the best coffee shops I’ve been to were in Portland.

When I was in Brisbane, this Australian lady bragged about how their coffee was so much better than ours and told me how I was in for a treat. When she watched me drink it, I had to break it to her that it was exact same product we get at cafes in Canada. She had tried gas station/doughnut shop coffee and assumed it was the only kind Canadians drank.

Comparing gas station/doughnut shop coffee to coffee from a cafe doesn't make sense. They're almost separate products. The first is mass market filter coffee that costs $1.50 to $2.50 while the latter is higher quality drip coffee that costs $3.00 to $4.00. And it's not like the lower price point filter coffee isn't a thing in Australia. Every gas station/corner store in Brisbane seemed to sell it.

Tim Hortons will likely succeed internationally for the same reason low end burger places like McDonald's succeed. Marketing muscle + brand familiarity + low price points. Let's face it, McDonald's is one of the worst burgers out there but it doesn't seem to matter.

Can we still call Starbucks a cafe? If Starbucks just sold regular cafe items like coffee and baked goods, they'd have gone out of business decades ago. People go there for their coffee infused liquid desserts. They're a dessert place like Baskin-Robbins. Nicer than Baskin-Robbins, but a dessert place nonetheless.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by yaletown_fella

Tims is a joke now, at least in my experience.

I just went to order a large black coffee after my work today on Bay Street and as I went to grab a seat the worker yelled "no dine in"

Theres no point in going to these places unless you are driving and in a pinch or wanting to sit down to get away from home and relax/people watch.

Going to buy a thermos mug tommorow and just make all my coffee from home.

This understaffing and grab&go nonsense is going to backfire on tims and starbucks . Defeats the whole point of going there. Only makes sense if you are using the drive through.

Why buy sub par coffee in a to-go cup that will get cold within 10 minutes of going outside.

I have yet to see a Tim Hortons disallow dine-in, aside from when there were Covid restrictions. Is this an Ontario thing?

Well, I did see it once, in Campbell River, but there was a sign at the entrance explaining the reason. At the time (September 2021) they had a severe staff shortage. But it was a temporary thing and not an ongoing thing.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

I think that varies by region in both the US and Canada. There’s no Dunkin on the US west coast, and Tim Hortons is far less predominant in BC than in other provinces. Starbucks rules the roost in the three west coast states and at least prior to 2021 was ubiquitous in the Vancouver area; New Westminster alone had at least 8 locations, and only two Tim Hortons. A lot more independent coffee shops in the four states/provinces than I’m used to out east.

BC, Washington, Oregon, and to some extent California take good coffee pretty seriously. Two of the best coffee shops I’ve been to were in Portland.

There are 8 Tim Hortons in New West.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by theman23

There are 8 Tim Hortons in New West.

Whereas, for example, here in Woodstock Ontario, roughly half the population of New West, we have 6.

[Doady]

I found a record store near my house a few years ago, a Sunrise Records. I thought they were all gone. Square One used to have Music World, Sunrise, Sam the Record Man, HMV, but now it has none. Sunrise is in a different mall. CDs I bought there so far are Love Junk deluxe, a couple of Stereolab deluxe editions, and a few ECM, maybe more.

Up until then, I had been buying CDs from Amazon, except for some out of print on Discogs or direct from artists on Bandcamp. Annoying thing about Sunrise is they don't do special orders. Some box sets I want are in their database, but my only option is to import them from overseas.

[yaletown_fella]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

I have yet to see a Tim Hortons disallow dine-in, aside from when there were Covid restrictions. Is this an Ontario thing?

Well, I did see it once, in Campbell River, but there was a sign at the entrance explaining the reason. At the time (September 2021) they had a severe staff shortage. But it was a temporary thing and not an ongoing thing.

I wouldve been more understanding if there was a sign posted explaining what was going on , it caught me off guard.

I suspect they're pretending to have a staff shortage, but just cheaping out . It was only that one guy behind the counter on Bay near Bloor.

[yaletown_fella]

Originally Posted by isaidso

When I was in Brisbane, this Australian lady bragged about how their coffee was so much better than ours and told me how I was in for a treat. When she watched me drink it, I had to break it to her that it was exact same product we get at cafes in Canada. She had tried gas station/doughnut shop coffee and assumed it was the only kind Canadians drank.

Comparing gas station/doughnut shop coffee to coffee from a cafe doesn't make sense. They're almost separate products. The first is mass market filter coffee that costs $1.50 to $2.50 while the latter is higher quality drip coffee that costs $3.00 to $4.00. And it's not like the lower price point filter coffee isn't a thing in Australia. Every gas station/corner store in Brisbane seemed to sell it.

Tim Hortons will likely succeed internationally for the same reason low end burger places like McDonald's succeed. Marketing muscle + brand familiarity + low price points. Let's face it, McDonald's is one of the worst burgers out there but it doesn't seem to matter.

Can we still call Starbucks a cafe? If Starbucks just sold regular cafe items like coffee and baked goods, they'd have gone out of business decades ago. People go there for their coffee infused liquid desserts. They're a dessert place like Baskin-Robbins. Nicer than Baskin-Robbins, but a dessert place nonetheless.

Starbucks used to have a lot more exclusivity 10-20 years ago. It used to be frequented by Oakville venture capital types and a couple of reserved introverted students on their laptops. Nowadays, it's more downmarket hipsters, hobos, and pickup trucks lined up in the drive thru.

[savevp]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

I really wish some of the UK chains would setup shop here - seeing as Costa was recently purchased by Coke, that might actually happen.

We did have Costa espresso vending machines for a little while, but they got pulled. And we do have Pret now. What I'd really like to see is Tim's bringing the full espresso menu they offer in the UK (the flat whites aren't half bad). To be fair, there are a couple fancy Tim's locations in Toronto and maybe elsewhere that do offer premium espresso drinks, plus matcha tea, and other high end things.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by yaletown_fella

I wouldve been more understanding if there was a sign posted explaining what was going on , it caught me off guard.

I suspect they're pretending to have a staff shortage, but just cheaping out . It was only that one guy behind the counter on Bay near Bloor.

Was this the one next to Bay Street Video? That one has a substantial seating area.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by theman23

There are 8 Tim Hortons in New West.

I just checked on Google Maps, I found seven. Still, I didn’t realize there were that many; looks like two are gas station locations I wasn’t aware of. One is inside the Douglas College campus; another one is inside a hospital, both ones I didn’t realize existed either. I had forgotten about the one in Queensborough, I don’t go down that way very often.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by yaletown_fella

Starbucks used to have a lot more exclusivity 10-20 years ago. It used to be frequented by Oakville venture capital types and a couple of reserved introverted students on their laptops. Nowadays, it's more downmarket hipsters, hobos, and pickup trucks lined up in the drive thru.

The students who studied at Starbucks on their laptops are now the soccer moms that drive pickup trucks.

I didn't find the coffee in Australia to be anything special either. It was good, but nothing like Spain or Italy. To be honest, I think the concept of a "coffee culture" is what local tourists boards scrape off the bottom of the barrel, kind of like how every board of commerce boasts about its burgeoning tech sector. I haven't been to any developed city (on any continent) in the last decade that didn't have an overabundance of good coffee options.