Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

It's so dumb that they skipped Mk.4 in the numbering scheme.

I wonder if it's the same reason they skip floor 4 in buildings nowadays.

[madog222]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

It's so dumb that they skipped Mk.4 in the numbering scheme. Also wild to be realizing that the Mk.2s will be well on their way to being phased out a decade from now. I guess they will be coming up on 30 years old at that time, little different than the mid-90s order of Mk.1s today. They just still feel like the 'new' SkyTrain cars to me.

Aye, the 200s are still “the new trains” to me but are really starting to show their age. Recently a I’ve found doors being out of order a common occurrence.

Originally Posted by chowhou

I wonder if it's the same reason they skip floor 4 in buildings nowadays.

Translink has stated Mark IV is being reserved for upgraded/rebuilt Mark IIIs.

5000 series fleet numbers are also being reserved for them, Mark V will be 6000 series. I wonder if this is a clue they are preparing for the upgrade to include adding a 5th car and therefore require renumbering.

[mcj]

Originally Posted by madog222

Speaking of skytrain noise. The friction modifier program is launching and scheduled to achieve the target CoF in March 2028 (from the attached document).


http://discovery.ariba.com/rfx/15862196

Also, the attached document includes this table breaking down expected travel distance by each car type.
Mark I significantly phased out by 2026 and fully retired by 2027.
Mark II shows a significant change in 2030, I assume that is a retirement of the 200 series (2001) leaving the 300 series (2009) "Mark 2.5" in service.

Great find with that table! Cool to see how service on the system overall is going to dramatically increase even as the system gets longer.

Doing the math:
With 61.9km system length for Expo + Millennium currently, increasing to 67.6 with the Broadway subway completed in 2026, and 83.6km with the SLS completed in 2028/2029.

2023:
51/61.9km = 0.823

2026:
72/67.6km = 1.065 or a 29% increase in service per system km over today's usage.

2028/2029:
77/83.6km = 0.921, a 14% decrease over 2026 in service per system km, or a 12% increase over current service per system km.

2032:
91/83.6km = 1.088 or a 32% increase in service per system km over today's usage.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

100% by December? Place your bets.

i wouldn't bet on that.

[Helvetia]

(Daily Hive) These are TransLink's top bus routes and SkyTrain stations for ridership recovery in 2022

Seems like the full stats tables were released for 2022. Anyone got any cool inferences?

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Helvetia

(Daily Hive) These are TransLink's top bus routes and SkyTrain stations for ridership recovery in 2022

Seems like the full stats tables were released for 2022. Anyone got any cool inferences?

That Kenneth Chan can do his own research sometimes?

Judging by the Skytrain numbers it's really clear that white collar commuters that now work from home are the biggest gap in transit recovery. Downtown Skytrain station numbers are actually abysmal, the 87% number is clearly pulled down by downtown and is hiding the fact that suburban recovery is approaching 100% on the Skytrain and massively exceeding it on the major suburban bus lines.

Arguably not only is ridership recovering, it's actually still in growth mode; minus the downtown commuters. Looks great to see!

[madog222]

Originally Posted by chowhou

That Kenneth Chan can do his own research sometimes?

Meh, it's just the numbers from the 2022 Service Performance Review that Translink published two weeks ago; it was posted and discussed in this thread then.

He must not lurk SSP much anymore!

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

SkyTrain Track Replacement

An aging stretch of Metro Vancouver’s SkyTrain system will be getting a facelift to the tune of nearly $35 million.

The money... will be used to replace running rail and rail pads on the Expo Line in Vancouver and Burnaby

interesting... almost as if maybe it isn't just NIMBY home owners and there actually is a noise problem with some parts of SkyTrain.

[GMD]

Originally Posted by GMD

Yeah, I saw that 87% number as an aside in the translink release on the TSPR and was surprised they weren't highlighting it more , since it had seemed in last 2022 that the recovery was levelling out at around 80% (as you can see in the graph in the article - which they should really extend through to March 2023), so it was a pleasant surprise to see the surge to 87% for March.

I thought maybe it was in part due to variation in the calendar from year to year, and checking the calendar, there were 23 weekdays in March for 2023 vs 21 for 2019 so that may account for some of the change

Sorry, had to quote myself on this one, the latest daily hive article on ridership recovery notes at the bottom:

"Editor’s note: This article has been revised to note ridership recovery reached 84% in March 2023, not 87% as previously indicated. TransLink states it made an error in its calculations by not properly accounting for the actual number of weekdays in 2023 compared to 2022."

So 87% raw, but 84% if you account for the extra weekdays, still pretty solid (but not on track for 100% by year end, maybe 90%). Maybe they corrected the record after seeing my comment

[Lexus]

2023, May 13

OMC on 225 North Road

Untitled by Lexus LX600, on Flickr

Not sure if that all related to OMC or Pipeline

Untitled by Lexus LX600, on Flickr

[cganuelas1995]

Wonder how bad the screeching is comparing LIM skytrain (Expo and Millennium lines) with conventional skytrain (Canada line). To my understanding, the LIMs lift the train off the rails a bit

[madog222]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Wonder how bad the screeching is comparing LIM skytrain (Expo and Millennium lines) with conventional skytrain (Canada line). To my understanding, the LIMs lift the train off the rails a bit

It provides some lifting force but nowhere near enough to overcome the weight of the train. I would think the weight difference between train models would make a greater difference.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by madog222

It provides some lifting force but nowhere near enough to overcome the weight of the train. I would think the weight difference between train models would make a greater difference.

Yeah I figured the upwards thrust would be negligible but I believe it might have something to do with the Expo/Millennium line rolling stocks ability to go over slopes of a higher gradient than the Canada line can handle

[madog222]

I believe that's only because there is no need for traction between the rail and wheel. There is no technical grade limitation for the LIM itself, they will work completely vertical: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OBHUZetYIU

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Wonder how bad the screeching is comparing LIM skytrain (Expo and Millennium lines) with conventional skytrain (Canada line).

To my recollection the screeching of the Canada Line going around the corners at Queen Elizabeth Park is quite a bit worse than the Expo Line going around the bend in the tunnel between Burrard and Waterfront.

One of the features of the Skytrain cars was steerable bogies, where the two axles on each bogie pivot as the train goes around a corner in order to reduce noise and wear. I don't know if the Canada Line equipment has the same capability or not.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

To my recollection the screeching of the Canada Line going around the corners at Queen Elizabeth Park is quite a bit worse than the Expo Line going around the bend in the tunnel between Burrard and Waterfront.

One of the features of the Skytrain cars was steerable bogies, where the two axles on each bogie pivot as the train goes around a corner in order to reduce noise and wear. I don't know if the Canada Line equipment has the same capability or not.

How could I forget the bogeys, that and the reduced friction from the slight upforce the magnetics provide synergize for better noise reduction I believe

[xd_1771]

I really ought to step in (in the media, etc) and reinforce that the noise definitely comes from the age of the original Expo Line track, and in particular the softness of the originally used track (per the TL noise study).

The Expo Line in Surrey (along KGB going up the hill from Scott Road) passes even closer to homes than segments of the Expo Line in Burnaby, because the slope means that the homes are right up to guideway level. And yet, to my best recollection there have been no Surrey residents clamouring about the SkyTrain being too noisy. I think this also factored into public acceptance of the Surrey-Langley SkyTrain, which will pass close to homes on Fraser Highway (especially now that we know it's going to be north side running). The fact is we have not experienced noise problems to the same extent as Burnaby has.

The noise study gives one major hint for why this is the case: for the Surrey extension in the 1990s, engineers switched to using harder rail. Columbia to King George uses 285 hb, or brinell hardness, whereas the original Expo uses 240 hb. New extensions, or replaced rail segments on the original Expo (that no longer have a recurring noise problem) use even harder rail between 310-370hb.

[Helvetia]

That's pretty insightful, thanks for sharing!

I guess the rail-replacement projects on the oldest parts of the Expo Line had previously replaced the "soft" rails with similarly soft rails.

[madog222]

Originally Posted by Helvetia

That's pretty insightful, thanks for sharing!

I guess the rail-replacement projects on the oldest parts of the Expo Line had previously replaced the "soft" rails with similarly soft rails.

The phase 2 noise study is worth a read, it's only 40 pages. https://www.translink.ca/resources/trans...study%20phase%20two%20technical%20report

The rail replacement over the past few years (Waterfront to Nanaimo and 22nd St to New Westminster) has used 330 HB with 370 HB being used on the 22nd St-New Westminster inbound track.

Millenium Line was built with 300 HB and Evergreen with 350 HB

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

I really ought to step in (in the media, etc) and reinforce that the noise definitely comes from the age of the original Expo Line track, and in particular the softness of the originally used track (per the TL noise study).

The Expo Line in Surrey (along KGB going up the hill from Scott Road) passes even closer to homes than segments of the Expo Line in Burnaby, because the slope means that the homes are right up to guideway level. And yet, to my best recollection there have been no Surrey residents clamouring about the SkyTrain being too noisy. I think this also factored into public acceptance of the Surrey-Langley SkyTrain, which will pass close to homes on Fraser Highway (especially now that we know it's going to be north side running). The fact is we have not experienced noise problems to the same extent as Burnaby has.

The noise study gives one major hint for why this is the case: for the Surrey extension in the 1990s, engineers switched to using harder rail. Columbia to King George uses 285 hb, or brinell hardness, whereas the original Expo uses 240 hb. New extensions, or replaced rail segments on the original Expo (that no longer have a recurring noise problem) use even harder rail between 310-370hb.

Are there any curvature differences in between the different phases?

I've long wondered if putting some bolt-on dampening baffles in the high speed corners would work on the existing expo line guideway. It would bulk the guideway up a bit, but those things are incredibly effective in the right circumstance.