Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[mcj]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

it depends on the section of tracks. some areas are worse than others. the study TransLink did a few years back even showed that.

is it really hard to believe that these people do deal with a louder than average section of SkyTrain? even the report TransLink commissioned a few years back said that this happened in various segments on the track. so you guys can all be like "oh theyre just karens/nimbys/etc" but even TransLink's own report said there were overly loud sections of track.

i dont care enough so havent looked into the specific sections and where this is. but it is not unrealistic to think its possible here, nor is it unreasonable to have an overly loud section of track made quieter if it is found to be above reasonable levels; which some sections we know are, from TransLink's own report on the issue.

so many people here just love to crap on home owners who complain and dismiss them being like "oh well I have never had an issue; karens."

Weird way to twist sharing my experience that there's other sources of noise in our city that we can also mitigate, that we don't make reports about, that are more bothersome for me.

Of course we should make the Skytrain as quiet as possible, while not sacrificing it's usefulness or using that as a tool to oppose future expansion.

Also curious to see a link to this report? It was someone writing an opinion piece in the local rag to complain that they "measured" the Skytrain to be 9 decibels over the limit. I can guarantee you traffic on Royal Ave is well over 89 decibels all day long.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by mcj

Weird way to twist sharing my experience that there's other sources of noise in our city that we can also mitigate, that we don't make reports about, that are more bothersome for me.

Of course we should make the Skytrain as quiet as possible, while not sacrificing it's usefulness or using that as a tool to oppose future expansion.

Also curious to see a link to this report? It was someone writing an opinion piece in the local rag to complain that they "measured" the Skytrain to be 9 decibels over the limit. I can guarantee you traffic on Royal Ave is well over 89 decibels all day long.

Wonder if it would be cheaper to mitigate the noise at the source or to mitigate the noise to people surrounding the source (double paned windows, insulation, etc)

[mangoicecream]

I know there as some other systems in China and Japan that use the same LIM technology. Wondering if their systems have to deal with the same noise problems of if its literally just a problem for us?

[madog222]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Would be nice for the Mark 6 to be single car type instead of having end cars and middle cars. Would probably make the manufacturing process a bit faster and cheaper

Nah not going to happen, open gangways are far superior. People can easily move through the train maximizing capacity and security. Everyone is going all in on open gangways.

Plus that would make manufacturing more expensive because a coupler, lights, window, and operating controls need to be fit on every car.

[madog222]

Originally Posted by mangoicecream

I know there as some other systems in China and Japan that use the same LIM technology. Wondering if their systems have to deal with the same noise problems of if its literally just a problem for us?

The problem noise is mainly from worn rails so the propulsion type shouldn’t make a difference.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Waist-level sound barriers might make sense, I suppose? But yeah, ~80 decibels is nothing compared to Harleys and sports cars on an arterial.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by madog222

Nah not going to happen, open gangways are far superior. People can easily move through the train maximizing capacity and security. Everyone is going all in on open gangways.

Plus that would make manufacturing more expensive because a coupler, lights, window, and operating controls need to be fit on every car.

They could have it with open gangways. A one car type train and open gangways aren't mutually exclusive

[MIPS]

Originally Posted by mangoicecream

I know there as some other systems in China and Japan that use the same LIM technology. Wondering if their systems have to deal with the same noise problems of if its literally just a problem for us?

My only experience is the Tokyo Oedo Line, which is both in a tunnel the entire length and deep underground.
It's noisy in turns, but so is the Canada Line going around Queen Elizabeth Park.

It' sreally is hard to express sympathy for the noise complaints when the system is approaching 35 years old and beyond hot spots the noise complaints have generally been kept to a minimum. These seem more like folks who bought-in to a residence and glossed over the fact they were in proximity to rail transportation, now they want the world to bend to their will. I'd be more interested in how many noise complaints had been reported after SkyTrain was active for five and ten years.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Would be nice for the Mark 6 to be single car type instead of having end cars and middle cars. Would probably make the manufacturing process a bit faster and cheaper

Mark I had that style.

They stopped doing that because it lowers the capacity vs having open gangways.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Mark I had that style.

They stopped doing that because it lowers the capacity vs having open gangways.

The open style is also safer. Doesn’t confine people to a single car.

[NewfBC]

Originally Posted by MIPS

My only experience is the Tokyo Oedo Line, which is both in a tunnel the entire length and deep underground.
It's noisy in turns, but so is the Canada Line going around Queen Elizabeth Park.

It' sreally is hard to express sympathy for the noise complaints when the system is approaching 35 years old and beyond hot spots the noise complaints have generally been kept to a minimum. These seem more like folks who bought-in to a residence and glossed over the fact they were in proximity to rail transportation, now they want the world to bend to their will. I'd be more interested in how many noise complaints had been reported after SkyTrain was active for five and ten years.

They had sympathy for the residents across from Science World.. they slowed down the trains going through there years ago after noise complaints from towers that were built after the Skytrain.

Ron.

[Helvetia]

Originally Posted by NewfBC

They had sympathy for the residents across from Science World.. they slowed down the trains going through there years ago after noise complaints from towers that were built after the Skytrain.

Ron.

I thought the slow down was because of the incredibly tight turn. Is there a time when the trains were faster in that section, if so, when did it change?

[officedweller]

I think there are also switches near Science World, so rumbling over those.

[madog222]

Originally Posted by Helvetia

I thought the slow down was because of the incredibly tight turn. Is there a time when the trains were faster in that section, if so, when did it change?

They always went slow on the curve. Slowing for the switches is what changed from the noise complains. Since the track has been replaced in that section trains no longer slow for the switches and from what I can tell take the corner faster than before.


In 1990 @22:40
• Video Link

In 2022 @5:20
• Video Link

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Mark I had that style.

They stopped doing that because it lowers the capacity vs having open gangways.

You could still have that and have open gangways I think

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by Helvetia

I thought the slow down was because of the incredibly tight turn. Is there a time when the trains were faster in that section, if so, when did it change?

The trains used to be slowed between Stadium and Main to speeds of 45-50 km/h, whereas the posted speed on track-side signs is 65km/h in this section.

In the last year however BCRTC appears to have returned the running speed on this stretch to 65km/h, I noticed the trains moving faster between Stadium and Main and so I decided to use a speed tracking app on my phone to confirm it: trains are back to full posted speed, 65km/h.

There aren't any noise problems on this section anymore either, so my guess is it's a result of the rail replacement with more robust/harder rails.

[madog222]

Speaking of skytrain noise. The friction modifier program is launching and scheduled to achieve the target CoF in March 2028 (from the attached document).

TransLink... is seeking interested parties which can design new Top-of-Rail Friction Modifier (“TORFM”) tread stick hardware for existing and incoming rolling stock fleet, including the supply of the manufactured hardware, and friction modifier (tread stick) consumables. The Contractor will be expected to oversee and manage the implementation of the project, including the transition to an operating program which BCRTC will be able to assume ownership of.

http://discovery.ariba.com/rfx/15862196

Also, the attached document includes this table breaking down expected travel distance by each car type.
Mark I significantly phased out by 2026 and fully retired by 2027.
Mark II shows a significant change in 2030, I assume that is a retirement of the 200 series (2001) leaving the 300 series (2009) "Mark 2.5" in service.

[Migrant_Coconut]

TransLink ridership has now recovered to 87% of pre-pandemic levels

Ridership on Metro Vancouver’s public transit services continues to inch upward towards pre-pandemic levels.

In a recent update, TransLink states ridership reached 87% of 2019 levels in March 2023, marking the highest rate yet in the three-year-long recovery from the trough.

In April 2020, upon the sudden onset of the pandemic, ridership collapsed to just 17% of normal volumes.

According to TransLink, it continues to lead all major public transit networks in Canada and the United States in ridership recovery.

Here is how TransLink ridership has fluctuated, based on its reported ridership change updates:

• April 2020: 17% of pre-pandemic
• September 2020: 41% of pre-pandemic
• November 2020: 44% of pre-pandemic
• September 2021: 55% of pre-pandemic
• January 2022: 60% of pre-pandemic
• February 2022: 64.5% of pre-pandemic
• May 2022: 70% of pre-pandemic
• June 2022: 72% of pre-pandemic
• September 2022: 77% of pre-pandemic
• November 2022: “80%+” of pre-pandemic
• December 2022: 82% of pre-pandemic
• March 2023: 87% of pre-pandemic...

100% by December? Place your bets.

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by madog222

Speaking of skytrain noise. The friction modifier program is launching and scheduled to achieve the target CoF in March 2028 (from the attached document).


http://discovery.ariba.com/rfx/15862196

Also, the attached document includes this table breaking down expected travel distance by each car type.
Mark I significantly phased out by 2026 and fully retired by 2027.
Mark II shows a significant change in 2030, I assume that is a retirement of the 200 series (2001) leaving the 300 series (2009) "Mark 2.5" in service.

It's so dumb that they skipped Mk.4 in the numbering scheme. Also wild to be realizing that the Mk.2s will be well on their way to being phased out a decade from now. I guess they will be coming up on 30 years old at that time, little different than the mid-90s order of Mk.1s today. They just still feel like the 'new' SkyTrain cars to me.

[GMD]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

TransLink ridership has now recovered to 87% of pre-pandemic levels

Yeah, I saw that 87% number as an aside in the translink release on the TSPR and was surprised they weren't highlighting it more , since it had seemed in last 2022 that the recovery was levelling out at around 80% (as you can see in the graph in the article - which they should really extend through to March 2023), so it was a pleasant surprise to see the surge to 87% for March.

I thought maybe it was in part due to variation in the calendar from year to year, and checking the calendar, there were 23 weekdays in March for 2023 vs 21 for 2019 so that may account for some of the change, but hopefully the recovery rate continues to increase through 2023, although I wouldn't bet on 100% by end of year.

Anecdotally, it seems to me that, in the last few months, traffic has reached back to its pre-Covid norms in terms of congestion, in the suburbs at least, so that may be driving more people to transit, especially transit modes that have some ability to not get stuck in traffic (skytrain, rapidbus to some extent).

The good news is that it looks like, fingers crossed, Vancouver will be able to avoid a post-Covid death spiral of declining transit service and funding cuts.