Public Disorder & the Decline of Vancouver's Livability - Page 116

jollyburger · #**2301** Posted **Mar 30, 2023, 3:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Stabbing somebody repeatedly with a knife is "intent to cause death", as that's what a reasonable person would assume.

Unless the Crown sends an intern to lead this case, I have no doubt it will be a 2nd degree murder conviction.

Seems like it will go down to manslaughter because of his mental faculties. Who stabs someone because of vaping in front of their kid and then go back into the coffee shop when they are finished?

FarmerHaight · #**2302** Posted **Mar 30, 2023, 3:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vin

Make the the guy work for his food in prison. Problem solved.

The food is one of the most affordable parts of incarceration. I challenge you to find any sort of make-work program that can generate $100k+ per year per inmate that can cover the costs of incarceration.

And just to clarify for everyone else, this is about the bus shelter smashing and other vandalism, NOT the stabing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by giallo

That guy is completely unhinged. Like, what kind of person stabs someone multiple times in broad daylight in front of the victim's family and a large crowd?

I honestly don't understand how these events could lead to this. The perp, who apparently has no criminal background, just carries a knife around in the middle of the day and takes it to demonstrations and coffee shops? It seems clear he was either looking for a conflict or was ready to happily participate in one if shit went down.

But for the victim (and I'm not blaming him, to be clear) why did he pass his daughter to his wife? Why didn't the whole family just walk away? My wife and I were discussing this event yesterday and she made me promise not to fight strangers.

I just don't understand how two strangers in the middle of the day end up in a lethal fight over vaping. It would be one thing if they were outside of a bar or something, but outside of a coffee shop?

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I don't want to get stabbed, but I don't hesitate to call people out on their bullshit. This guy was an asshole no matter how you look at it.

IDK man, I wouldn't hesitate to call out an a-hole either, but if said a-hole wanted a fight I hope I would walk away. There are just too many unpredictable variables like what if they're unstable, what if they have a weapon, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpongeG

stabbing someone to death is a little extreme and not the way most sane people react to being asked not to vape somewhere.

He brought a knife to a coffee shop. That doesn't really make sense, so I would guess he was looking for a fight all day long.

WarrenC12 · #**2303** Posted **Mar 30, 2023, 3:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Seems like it will go down to manslaughter because of his mental faculties. Who stabs someone because of vaping in front of their kid and then go back into the coffee shop when they are finished?

That's not what manslaughter is. If they want to go down the path of "not criminally responsible", that's a high bar to cross for the defence. You can still end up institutionalized for life anyway.

Acajack · #**2304** Posted **Mar 30, 2023, 4:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

That's not what manslaughter is. If they want to go down the path of "not criminally responsible", that's a high bar to cross for the defence. You can still end up institutionalized for life anyway.

Like Vincent Li, I suppose.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Tim_McLean

SFUVancouver · #**2305** Posted **Mar 30, 2023, 5:02 PM**

Good news: Hamilton is pretty certain that for a few dozen million, street homelessness can be eliminated. I'll be pleased to share the secrets with Vancouver once we solve that problem here.

Sarcasm aside, it never hurts to reiterate that street homelessness, public disorder, and a decline of civility isn't just a Vancouver problem. It's definitely a problem and hyper-concentrated in the DTES, but the underlying issue of poverty, housing unaffordability, addiction, a lenient legal system, and the absence of an institutional treatment option for people with severe untreated mental illness who are a demonstrated risk to themselves and society, are all not unique challenges to Vancouver.

Acajack · #**2306** Posted **Mar 30, 2023, 5:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

Good news: Hamilton is pretty certain that for a few dozen million, street homelessness can be eliminated. I'll be pleased to share the secrets with Vancouver once we solve that problem here.

Sarcasm aside, it never hurts to reiterate that street homelessness, public disorder, and a decline of civility isn't just a Vancouver problem. It's definitely a problem and hyper-concentrated in the DTES, but the underlying issue of poverty, housing unaffordability, addiction, a lenient legal system, and the absence of an institutional treatment option for people with severe untreated mental illness who are a demonstrated risk to themselves and society, are all not unique challenges to Vancouver.

No, the good news is that you guys are simply on the avant-garde!

Vin · #**2307** Posted **Mar 30, 2023, 5:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

Good news: Hamilton is pretty certain that for a few dozen million, street homelessness can be eliminated. I'll be pleased to share the secrets with Vancouver once we solve that problem here.

Sarcasm aside, it never hurts to reiterate that street homelessness, public disorder, and a decline of civility isn't just a Vancouver problem. It's definitely a problem and hyper-concentrated in the DTES, but the underlying issue of poverty, housing unaffordability, addiction, a lenient legal system, and the absence of an institutional treatment option for people with severe untreated mental illness who are a demonstrated risk to themselves and society, are all not unique challenges to Vancouver.

There are also the age-old sins of mankind for the decline of society and even civilization:
1. Greed
2. Selfishness
3. Laziness
3. Violence

These sum up as the root of problems we have today.

Even though the issues affecting us is spread nation-wide, Vancouver is definitely leading the pack. Also, being in Vancouver, we have the responsibility to highlight our own problems.

Migrant_Coconut · #**2308** Posted **Mar 30, 2023, 6:12 PM**

Best to save the Puritanical sermonizing for the rest of the church group.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Stabbing somebody repeatedly with a knife is "intent to cause death", as that's what a reasonable person would assume.

Unless the Crown sends an intern to lead this case, I have no doubt it will be a 2nd degree murder conviction.

Even if one is clean and sober, adrenaline is still a helluva drug. We’ve got demonstrable intent to maim... intent to kill, not so much; as mentioned, defendants in BC have gotten lighter sentences for worse.

Acajack · #**2309** Posted **Mar 30, 2023, 6:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Best to save the Puritanical sermonizing for the rest of the church group.

Even if one is clean and sober, adrenaline is still a helluva drug. We’ve got demonstrable intent to maim... intent to kill, not so much; as mentioned, defendants in BC have gotten lighter sentences for worse.

Likely true, but is that really a good thing?

Migrant_Coconut · #**2310** Posted **Mar 30, 2023, 6:24 PM**

I don't see it as a good thing or a bad thing - it's just the product of a criminal justice system that chose long before my time to prioritize reform over retaliation, as with most first world countries.

Acajack · #**2311** Posted **Mar 30, 2023, 6:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

I don't see it as a good thing or a bad thing - it's just the product of a criminal justice system that chose long before my time to prioritize reform over retaliation, as with most first world countries.

It seemed like a good idea at the time, but definitely seems like it's passed its best-before date.

cornholio · #**2312** Posted **Mar 31, 2023, 1:59 AM**

Regarding the stabbing I take it somewhat personally since some bit over 20 years ago I was stabbed multiple times and it’s only luck I am alive unlike this guy (neck, face, stomach, back, etc…large kitchen knife all the way but missed all major arteries and more or less all major organs).

Having said that I am yet to hear the full story here.

a) If the guy just went and stabbed him. Second degree murder.
b) If the two got into a fight and he stabbed him when it wasn’t looking in his favour but his life was not in danger could be manslaughter.
c) If the guy who died attacked him. That in my eyes is self defense assuming the stabber defended him self right away and didn’t consent to a fight. Even if c is less likely then a and b I still find it odd it is completely ignored.

I learned my lesson to not get into confrontations that can be avoided because the repercussions can be death if it escalates to physical and weapons. In fact for over five years I have not been living in Vancouver and instead in Europe (CZ) where I have a self defense conceal carry permit and do regularly carry my hand gun, loaded and cocked. If I know I will be consuming alcohol I instead have only my auto switch blade. I am getting up there in age but take self defense, the ability for me to defend my self and my family in all situations pretty seriously. The only thing I take more seriously is avoiding needless confrontations and minimizing risks of one and I do a good job of that and don’t expect to get into any unless I am unlucky and someone picks me as a random target. Let’s not forget about c. It would explain why the guy didn’t leave the scene because why would you if you do nothing wrong (honestly I still put my money on a or b with the guy who died making mistake of starting a needles confrontation but the stabber using lethal force without justification so 2nd degree or manslaughter).

By the way in my case if it was c, some fit guy attacked me out here in Prague and I would feel I was threatened (not just life but injury) while I was carrying I would pull and there would be a split micro second for the attacker to convince me he is stopping his attack for me to not pull the trigger. In the case of having to resort to a knife which I carry for self defense it would be no different and if the attacker felt invincible he would be mistaken. A video taken at the end may not look much different and I would expect to be quickly cleared by the police.

My two cents on it. I feel for the family. And I hope justice is served, be it chargers or a speedy vindication if it was a maybe less likely case of self defense.

Vin · #**2313** Posted **May 9, 2023, 8:19 PM**

Gotta punish criminals harder....

Quote:

Police called over multiple sex assaults in Vancouver's downtown core
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-sex-assaults-investigations-police

WarrenC12 · #**2314** Posted **May 9, 2023, 8:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vin

Gotta punish criminals harder....

Does that work? Got any evidence?

Zepfancouver · #**2315** Posted **May 9, 2023, 10:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Does that work? Got any evidence?

I'm with Vin, "Gotta punish criminals harder...." That works for me, I don't need an endgame to/for everything.
Criminals don't like to be told when to wake up, when to eat and when to behave.