Public Disorder & the Decline of Vancouver's Livability

[hollywoodnorth]

Originally Posted by Zepfancouver

I just watch it, it is extremely disturbing, and made me extremely mad, and what the F**k!, a guy 10 feet away just sitting there, sipping is coffee like nothing unusual is happening, and the guy filming, I don't like his reaction either.

same here both of their reactions made me almost as mad and upset as the video itself.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

Sure, put the guy in prison for 12 months and now you've spent 4x the cost of the damage on incarceration. Locking up everyone who smashes a window or tags a wall is not the solution.

He most certainly will not be let out on bail

Make the the guy work for his food in prison. Problem solved.

Deterrence is key here. Makes those yahoos think twice before doing it. With the guise on "human rights", society has become too soft on criminals and those hell-bent on behaving in a destructive manner. Before you say anything further, know that many around these people are being hurt or killed.

[giallo]

That guy is completely unhinged. Like, what kind of person stabs someone multiple times in broad daylight in front of the victim's family and a large crowd?

He needs to be in jail for life. You can't have someone like that around a civil society.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by giallo

That guy is completely unhinged. Like, what kind of person stabs someone multiple times in broad daylight in front of the victim's family and a large crowd?

He needs to be in jail for life. You can't have someone like that around a civil society.

Charged with Murder 2. No chance of parole for 25 years.

The case should be straightforward.

[whatnext]

Global had a piece on yesterday about the increasing violence directed at retail/restaurant workers downtown:

Downtown Vancouver businesses flag safety concerns after fatal stabbing at Starbucks
By Simon Little Global News
Posted March 28, 2023 7:32 pm

Businesses in downtown Vancouver are speaking out about their mounting crime and safety concerns, in the wake of a fatal daylight stabbing that has shocked the city.

Paul Schmidt, a 37-year-old husband and father, died after being stabbed outside a Starbucks at Granville and Georgia streets Sunday evening.

Sandeep Alexander, who owns Festal Café on Granville Street said the incident is yet another sign of deteriorating conditions in the downtown core that have driven staff and customers away.

“Almost every other day we have people walking in, threatening our staff, taking money from the tip jars; we had multiple encounters of iPads being stolen, multiple encounters of vandalism. Quite a lot of these places the glass, shopfront — broken,” Alexander said....

....Joann Zarife, who operates Zatar w Zeit just a few steps away from the scene of Sunday’s deadly stabbing, said she’s had similar experiences.

“My employees didn’t want to come to work. They’re scared,” she said.

Zarife said she’s a regular victim of theft and confrontations, and feels the city is doing little to address the problem....

....For Alexander, it’s simply too late...

...Instead, he told Global News, he plans to shutter the Granville Street location and look for a new home for his café in safer part of town.

https://globalnews.ca/news/9584755/downtown-vancouver-safety-concerns/

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by Zepfancouver

I just watch it, it is extremely disturbing, and made me extremely mad, and what the F**k!, a guy 10 feet away just sitting there, sipping is coffee like nothing unusual is happening, and the guy filming, I don't like his reaction either.

The guy filming is the worst character. Not asking people to dial 911. Not dialing 911 for the guy gushing blood. Few accounts are suggesting the bystanders thought it was gang related but that excuse does no good.

It's insane that we allow khalistan protests in this country. Some of these individuals caught up in it are insane radicals. My brothers wife is Punjabi sikh but knows the fire we are playing with here.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Charged with Murder 2. No chance of parole for 25 years.

The case should be straightforward.

Could be manslaughter, depending on how the defence goes.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by whatnext

There is apparently a video of the altercation circulating online and authorities are asking people not to watch it as it is very disturbing. I haven't, but some of the comments indicate the suspect was called out by the victim for vaping inside and the perp stabbed him with his kirpan. Not confirmed by authorities.

I saw the disturbing video and from what I know of kirpans it didn't appear to be one. We'll have to wait on that but it's likely a minor detail relative to the overall horror of the attack.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Many news sites also seem to omit how the victim initially confronted the suspect (over a vape pen, I believe). The whole internet is jumping to conclusions here; we don't know who said what, and the suspect obviously overreacted, but it's entirely possible the victim was looking for a fight.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Many news sites also seem to omit how the victim initially confronted the suspect (over a vape pen, I believe). We don't know who said what, and the suspect obviously overreacted, but it's entirely possible the victim was looking for a fight.

Guy there with his wife and young kid? The vaping comment was because the kid was present.

I'm not sure why you're bending over to provide every excuse for the murderer.

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Guy there with his wife and young kid? The vaping comment was because the kid was present.

I'm not sure why you're bending over to provide every excuse for the murderer.

Someone gets stabbed repeatedly in the gut and eye and literally gushes out blood in front of his family while the stabber proceeds to mock him and takes videos of the victim...

"but the victim told the guy not to vape!"

Christ....

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Guy there with his wife and young kid? The vaping comment was because the kid was present.

I'm not sure why you're bending over to provide every excuse for the murderer.

I'm saying this entire thing could've been avoided - I've been in that Starbucks, it's not too hard to just walk over to a spot where there's no fumes. And you don't say "lady, take your kid" if you're intent on a random stabbing spree.

The suspect's getting 25 to life no matter what, and he should, but if the other guy lived, both of them would probably be charged for assault.

Originally Posted by logicbomb

Someone gets stabbed repeatedly in the gut and eye and literally gushes out blood in front of his family while the stabber proceeds to mock him and takes videos of the victim...

"but the victim told the guy not to vape!"

Christ....

I see you didn't watch the video.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

I'm saying this entire thing could've been avoided - I've been in that Starbucks, it's not too hard to just walk over to a spot where there's no fumes. The suspect's getting 25 to life no matter what, and he should, but if the other guy lived, both of them would probably be charged for assault. You don't say "lady, take your kid" if you're intent on a random stabbing spree.

I don't want to get stabbed, but I don't hesitate to call people out on their bullshit. This guy was an asshole no matter how you look at it.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I don't want to get stabbed, but I don't hesitate to call people out on their bullshit. This guy was an asshole no matter how you look at it.

Did I say otherwise? I'm saying we don't know how it went down - was it "hey, mind putting the vape away in front of my kid?" or more like "hey jackass, put the f**king vape away"? Only one of those is an escalation. Again, jumping to conclusions is bad; some of the context sounds like the victim was trying to start the fight, and if true, that's a manslaughter charge instead.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Did I say otherwise? I'm saying we don't know how it went down - was it "hey, mind putting the vape away in front of my kid?" or more like "hey jackass, put the f**king vape away"? Only one of those is an escalation. Again, jumping to conclusions is bad; some of the context sounds like the victim was trying to start the fight, and if true, that's a manslaughter charge instead.

It doesn't matter. Murder is murder. Appalled you are giving excuses for the murderer.

Even people in this forum swear at each other (which I don't approve BTW). If people are so easily triggered bodies would've piled up by now.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Vin

It doesn't matter. Murder is murder. Appalled you are giving excuses for the murderer.

What Is The Difference Between Murder and Manslaughter?

Murder

Murder is the intentional killing of another human being. In Canada, murder law, or homicide, is classified into several categories: First degree murder, second degree murder, infanticide and manslaughter. The distinction between these offences is in the requirement of proof of the intent of the accused.

First degree murder refers to a murder that is both planned and deliberate. If it was planned then it was conceived and thought out before it was carried out. If it was deliberate then the act was considered and not impulsive.

There are several circumstances in which a murder that is not planned and deliberate can also warrant a first degree murder charge. The killing of a police officer or prison guard is always first degree murder. Murder committed in the course of the commission of other specified crimes such as hijacking, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, kidnapping, forcible confinement, hostage taking, terrorism, intimidation, or any offence being committed on behalf of a criminal organization, is also considered first degree murder under Canadian murder law.

Second degree murder is any homicide that is proven if the prosecution can establish the accused intended to kill the victim, or if he intended to cause bodily harm that he knew was likely to cause death.

Manslaughter

Manslaughter is any unlawful killing that lacks the intent to prove murder. The hallmark of manslaughter law is essentially the commission of an unlawful act that causes the death of the victim. An unlawful act could be something as simple as applying force to a person without their consent (assault), with the resulting death of that person. A classic case involved a push to the victim, resulting in him losing his balance, and falling down a flight of stairs to his death. Manslaughter also can be successfully pleaded when an accused is charged with murder, and due to intoxication, he or she may lack the intent to kill or cause bodily harm that is likely to cause death. A charge of murder can also be reduced to manslaughter where the accused person can establish provocation, or where the prosecution cannot prove the necessary intent to commit murder (first or second degree), as intent is a primary difference between manslaughter and murder.

I want justice done by due process, not by a barely-informed internet lynch mob. The defence team is going to try the exact same argument in just a few months, so I suggest you calm your tits before you get so angry that you need EMTs too.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

I want justice done by due process, not by a barely-informed internet lynch mob. The defence team is going to try the exact same argument in just a few months, so I suggest you calm your tits before you get so angry that you need EMTs too.

This is the key of course:

Second degree murder is any homicide that is proven if the prosecution can establish the accused intended to kill the victim, or if he intended to cause bodily harm that he knew was likely to cause death.

Courts have pretty firmly established that stabbing is intent to kill, especially multiple times.

[chowhou]

I don't think anyone is arguing that the stabber is a good defensible individual and shouldn't be charged with something. It seems relatively obvious that there was no threat to the stabber's life, and some chain of events caused the stabber to kill the stabbee. The real question (which needs to be solved by a court of law, not by the court of public opinion going on here) is whether the mens rea is there for murder or not. Perhaps the stabber only intended to maim.

The most disgusting thing to me is how many people (even in this thread!) have latched onto the "Khalistan radical stabs Canadian!" rhetoric that's being promoted by Indian nationalist tabloids. As the saying goes, when a white guy stabs someone, he's a murderer, when an Arab guy stabs someone, Arabs are terrorists.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

... Courts have pretty firmly established that stabbing is intent to kill, especially multiple times.

AFAIK it's only if the suspect confesses to anything, in which case it can be used as admissible evidence.

Police: You knew that might lead to his death, right?

Suspect: Yeah, but I wasn't trying to kill him!

Hence Miranda rights in the States ("You have the right to remain silent, anything you say can and will be used against you..."). If the suspect keeps mum, the prosecution has to guess - or make them trip up - and if that fails, manslaughter applies.

[SpongeG]

stabbing someone to death is a little extreme and not the way most sane people react to being asked not to vape somewhere.