Metro Vancouver Road Infrastructure Discussion

[NetMapel]

Originally Posted by madog222

Yeah I’d blame inattentive drivers but the barriers could be more visible. In the daily hive post it looks like every car that has driven up on them is driving towards the busy intersection. For cars in that direction there is no ‘slow street’ sign.

They should have at least a pole on both barriers with a hazard marker.

Hmmm that’s even stranger to me then. Since my thinking is I’d expect to see more cars potentially running into those barriers when a car turn from a faster street into these neighborhood slow streets. Since it could be a bit of a “shock” if it’s not expected when you were just driving on a typical fast street? So the fact that you said these cars are hitting the barriers when exiting is strange in my opinion. Does that suggest these drivers weren’t driving slowly and carefully on their neighborhood streets prior to hitting these barriers? Then in that case I might argue for even more infrastructures around more parts of neighborhood streets to force cars to slow down. These aren’t collector or arterial roads and are residential roads and are likely close by schools and parks. Motorists need to slow down in areas that are clearly prioritizing pedestrians. I was walking by Brentwood mall the other day where there is a single road cutting through the middle of the mall. It’s clearly a pedastrian-prioritized area with shops on both sides and the road are raised. There was a car driving through that didn’t even bother slowing down at all and almost hit me crossing the street. The driver was looking through her shoulder and didn’t bother looking ahead at the big crossing. So maybe these drivers on these slow streets weren’t looking ahead at clear yellow barriers which means they could also be hitting children or other people as well.

[aberdeen5698]

I turned a corner off a main artery onto a side street and was confronted with these barriers - there were two lines of barriers about 20 feet long that divided the road up into three roughly equal-sized lanes. It confused the heck out of me - there wasn't enough room for two cars to pass in the middle "lane" and no signs indicating which way to go. I made a snap decision to go through the right-hand "lane" but in retrospect I suspect that was intended for bikes and the idea was to force opposing traffic to take turns passing through the middle.

I'd like to be a little more certain of how these are intended to be used...

Edit: it appears that my guess was correct, here's a link to the CoV web site describing them. I have to say that the barriers I saw left a lot more room on the left and right than is suggested by the graphic under the "Slower Vehicles" pop-open topic. If they're going to leave enough room at the left and right for a car to go through comfortably then I think they need to put "keep left" and "keep right" signs on the barriers to reduce confusion. I kinda feel like the guy in the photo above had the same kind of indecision I felt when I first saw these and basically his brain froze for a bit too long before he found himself up on the barriers.

[jollyburger]

I just have a problem with that one at McLean/East Hasting. It should be further into McLean so people coming off of Hastings have more room to yield to people coming the other way. Or just make it into a one way road.

They can take all the concrete dividers from Stanley Park and make a few hundreds of these around town

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

I turned a corner off a main artery onto a side street and was confronted with these barriers - there were two lines of barriers about 20 feet long that divided the road up into three roughly equal-sized lanes. It confused the heck out of me - there wasn't enough room for two cars to pass in the middle "lane" and no signs indicating which way to go. I made a snap decision to go through the right-hand "lane" but in retrospect I suspect that was intended for bikes and the idea was to force opposing traffic to take turns passing through the middle.

I'd like to be a little more certain of how these are intended to be used...

Edit: it appears that my guess was correct, here's a link to the CoV web site describing them. I have to say that the barriers I saw left a lot more room on the left and right than is suggested by the graphic under the "Slower Vehicles" pop-open topic. If they're going to leave enough room at the left and right for a car to go through comfortably then I think they need to put "keep left" and "keep right" signs on the barriers to reduce confusion. I kinda feel like the guy in the photo above had the same kind of indecision I felt when I first saw these and basically his brain froze for a bit too long before he found himself up on the barriers.

I see two purposes for these barriers. First, combined with the "Slow Street" sign they are a visual reminder to drivers to slow down. A sign on the curb is pretty easy to ignore but these are not. Second, they force drivers to slow down at the initial pinch point, especially if there is a vehicle coming the other direction.

The fact that they are placed only at intersections with main arterials and not sporadically through the neighborhood is also intentional. I don't know about others, but when I am driving 50 on Hastings or another arterial and turn onto a local street I don't always remember to adjust my speed because I am used to it. These barricades (or a speed bump or a traffic circle) remind me that I have switched from a 50 zone to a 30 zone.

BTW, if "his brain froze" long enough to drive over this barrier he shouldn't be driving at all or he should be driving slower.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

I see two purposes for these barriers. First, combined with the "Slow Street" sign they are a visual reminder to drivers to slow down. A sign on the curb is pretty easy to ignore but these are not. Second, they force drivers to slow down at the initial pinch point, especially if there is a vehicle coming the other direction.

The fact that they are placed only at intersections with main arterials and not sporadically through the neighborhood is also intentional. I don't know about others, but when I am driving 50 on Hastings or another arterial and turn onto a local street I don't always remember to adjust my speed because I am used to it. These barricades (or a speed bump or a traffic circle) remind me that I have switched from a 50 zone to a 30 zone.

BTW, if "his brain froze" long enough to drive over this barrier he shouldn't be driving at all or he should be driving slower.

But even most of those side streets that go into that area don't even have a 30km/h sign. I think making every intersection along McLean on that stretch into a 3/4 way stop would do more to slow down people than that barrier. And bump up the fine for disobeying a stop sign to $400.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

BTW, if "his brain froze" long enough to drive over this barrier he shouldn't be driving at all or he should be driving slower.

The problem I had was that it was the first time I'd seen them, and I had just turned off an arterial and found them in front of me with almost no time to figure out what to do about them. I was wary of just stopping because all my attention was on this novel sight in front of me, I had no idea who might be close on my tail, and my brain was going "whaaaat?" So in the absence of some signage guidance I was forced to make a split-second decision. It turned out to be the wrong one, but luckily there wasn't anyone around and so it didn't matter.

It'll be easier the next time because I'll understand what's going on, but I empathize with people who may screw up when they encounter these for the first time. I really think some signage would help.

[NetMapel]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

The problem I had was that it was the first time I'd seen them, and I had just turned off an arterial and found them in front of me with almost no time to figure out what to do about them. I was wary of just stopping because all my attention was on this novel sight in front of me, I had no idea who might be close on my tail, and my brain was going "whaaaat?" So in the absence of some signage guidance I was forced to make a split-second decision. It turned out to be the wrong one, but luckily there wasn't anyone around and so it didn't matter.

It'll be easier the next time because I'll understand what's going on, but I empathize with people who may screw up when they encounter these for the first time. I really think some signage would help.

It's why I said earlier that I would be a bit more understandable if the cars hitting those barriers are entering the slow streets. But as a poster pointed out so far, the two images we've seen floating around are cars exiting the slow streets so there should be very little split second shock. You're supposed to be driving slowly and paying attention in the slow streets and exiting it. The fact that the car made it so far in the barrier suggests that they were both negligent and hitting the barrier with speed since a slower moving car would be stopped earlier by the barrier. These two cars were basically almost over the barrier which would be suggest some approaching speed. So I still would argue that those barriers were doing their job precisely!

Also for some comedy

Reddit poster with a bicycle making a joke about cars getting stuck on the barrier

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

King George Blvd through Whalley is becoming unbearable to drive through. Another one right beside King George Station. Planned lights at 97 A Ave, 101 Ave, 102 A Ave. It takes forever to drive from 96th Ave to 108th Ave now.

Yeah.
At least the province operates Lougheed, so Burnaby can't do stupid things with Lougheed either.

King George will never be an actual 'boulevard', not when it connects to Fraser and Pautello.

[madog222]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Yeah.
At least the province operates Lougheed, so Burnaby can't do stupid things with Lougheed either.

King George will never be an actual 'boulevard', not when it connects to Fraser and Pautello.

Nope, Lougheed Hwy through Burnaby is under Translink jurisdiction not Provincial.

It's Major Road Network just as KGB is.

[officedweller]

Hmmm, for a barrier in the street, it doesn't have the usual traffic signage for an obstacle (and are those reflectors painted over?).
(but generally agree that if you are attentive, you shouldn't be riding up on these,.
They may be hard to see at night, but the pics show daytime incidents.

The other aspect is that the vehicle shown has a high hood.
If a driver is sitting back, he/she may not be able to see past the hood for such a short barrier (that's also why kids can get run over if playing around an SUV).
There should be signs on all 4 corners of the barriers for visibility.
Likewise, for someone reversing near one (don't assume there's a back-up camera).

Maybe signs like these would help.
"Slow Street" requires the driver to know what the program is about and is not intuitive regarding the presence of barriers/obstacles.
i.e. "School Zone" signs indicate slower speeds without physical barriers in the street.


https://www.seton.ca/reflective-warning-...AucUEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds#W4394S55TEDRAH



https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=http...CBEQjhxqFwoTCJiM1ozw-v0CFQAAAAAdAAAAABAI

Another example of poor signage is at Burrard and Pacific.
You can see the original hazard sign in the middle of the island was inadequate to prevent drivers from hitting the island, so an additional post has been added to the right.
I expect that drivers were hitting it at night.
That's what happens when lanes are planned out on paper with precise dimensions.
You can see the pick-up truck only has a foot on either side, so a cargo truck or a bus would have less clearance.

October 2022:

https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2769398,...itch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

January 2022:

https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2769467,...7xA!2e0!5s20220101T000000!7i16384!8i8192

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by NetMapel

Vancouver's car-eating slow street barriers spark controversy (PHOTOS)

Without knowing more details, I feel that drivers must be rather distracted and/or driving too fast to land your car on those barriers. In which case, I feel those barriers are doing exactly as they’re intended to. Protect and slow down cars in neighborhood areas to increase safety for all on the roads there. I would like more of those around more neighborhoods to further reduce cars speeding through neighborhood roads. I believe road signs don’t slow down drivers. Only actual infrastructure do. So I have a hard time understanding what controversies it is creating other than for unsafe drivers in neighborhoods. What do you guys think?

How on earth does this slow down traffic any more than a row of cars on each side of the road?

[jollyburger]

Vancouver Sun says that they are going to "fix" the problem with the dividers at McLean/East Hastings.

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news...nd-the-city-of-vancouver-banana-barriers

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by whatnext

How on earth does this slow down traffic any more than a row of cars on each side of the road?

It doesn't. But a jersey barrier doesn't suddenly fling its door open to hit a person on a bicycle.

[NetMapel]

Originally Posted by whatnext

How on earth does this slow down traffic any more than a row of cars on each side of the road?

I supposed it wouldn’t be consistent if you have to rely on having cars parked there. Having a physical infrastructure is more consistent. Personally I’d rather hav the pedestrian area extended as a way to narrow the streets there. Plus raise the cross walk to signal that you are entering slow area. But that wouldn’t stop negligent drivers which is exactly what I think happened here. These drivers could have hit people crossing the street there. Better hit the barrier and wreck the car than hit and injure a person.

[jollyburger]

Double the height of the dividers and they can use them for street art as well.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

It'll be easier the next time because I'll understand what's going on, but I empathize with people who may screw up when they encounter these for the first time. I really think some signage would help.

Every bit of new infrastructure requires an adjustment period. I know there are plenty of people who are uncomfortable with the two-lane traffic circles at UBC and SFU, but does that mean we should get rid of them?

Originally Posted by CanSpice

It doesn't. But a jersey barrier doesn't suddenly fling its door open to hit a person on a bicycle.

Yeah, one of the biggest faults with the local "slow streets" for cyclists is you're often squeezed between an oncoming vehicle and parked cars. And I really don't want to get doored.

Originally Posted by NetMapel

These drivers could have hit people crossing the street there. Better hit the barrier and wreck the car than hit and injure a person.

For the cars exiting the slow street, having a barrier at the corner instead of a parked car helps with visibility of oncoming traffic, crossing pedestrians, and road signage. I am tall, so drivers can see me overtop of parked cars but I can imagine children and shorter adults being afraid of crossing at an intersection when parked cars abut it.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

Every bit of new infrastructure requires an adjustment period. I know there are plenty of people who are uncomfortable with the two-lane traffic circles at UBC and SFU, but does that mean we should get rid of them?

But they clearly didn't think it through if they are changing the implementation on McLean/Hastings. If it is just an adjustment period then leave it as is.

Not sure how common it is but West Vancouver turned 21st Street below the highway into a meandering road to slow down people.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

It doesn't. But a jersey barrier doesn't suddenly fling its door open to hit a person on a bicycle.

Gee, too bad the rest of the roadway shown has cars parked that could. Doesn't seem very effective for that but the reason for installing them is supposedly to slow traffic and they don't.

[NetMapel]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Gee, too bad the rest of the roadway shown has cars parked that could. Doesn't seem very effective for that but the reason for installing them is supposedly to slow traffic and they don't.

Reposting this again. It appears to have slowed the distracted driver down no problem though?

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Gee, too bad the rest of the roadway shown has cars parked that could. Doesn't seem very effective for that but the reason for installing them is supposedly to slow traffic and they don't.

Same idiots that roll through stop signs and do 50 in slow areas will see these things as challenges to speed through. Even most speed bumps are useless unless you're do like 80 over them.