Broadway Corridor Development Plan - Page 51

Changing City · #**1001** Posted **Mar 24, 2023, 10:27 PM**

Looks like ABC (and therefore Council) will support the idea of no bike lanes. Cllr Montague was just on the radio saying that among other reasons for not adding them, it would remove parking.

idunno · #**1002** Posted **Mar 24, 2023, 10:33 PM**

Wow they really are getting that "we hate bikes" reputation, with Stanley Park and now this likely decision.

I guess this is what they wanted though.

Migrant_Coconut · #**1003** Posted **Mar 24, 2023, 10:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

I was saying two lanes in each direction: one general traffic lane and one bus + bike lane. Perhaps the bus + bike lane could revert to general traffic in the evenings.

Buses and bikes in the same lane is generally a Really Bad Idea.

chowhou · #**1004** Posted **Mar 24, 2023, 10:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Buses and bikes in the same lane is generally a Really Bad Idea.

Is it? I actually appreciate the dedicated bus+cycle lanes on the North Shore as a cyclist (but I guess only because it's an upgrade from sharing with busses and cars.)

whatnext · #**1005** Posted **Mar 24, 2023, 10:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by idunno

Wow they really are getting that "we hate bikes" reputation, with Stanley Park and now this likely decision.

I guess this is what they wanted though.

They're just restoring the balance from previous administrations who forced through bike lanes at the bidding of a small but vocal minority. For example, I just went by the new bike lane at Hornby and Drake. What a dangerous clusterfuck they have made of that intersection. Vehicles have to make an awkward right from Hornby onto Drake that is almost too tight for trucks. Pedestrians don't know why their light is red and walk in front of cars with the advance right turn and to top it off a cyclist who couldn't be bothered with the bike lanes was riding in the wrong direction in the vehicle lane in the face of oncoming traffic.

Better the energy is focused on making Broadway a more appealing street for pedestrians and on extending the line to UBC.

Changing City · #**1006** Posted **Mar 24, 2023, 10:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext

Better the energy is focused on making Broadway a more appealing street for pedestrians and on extending the line to UBC.

Whether bike lanes are added on the sections of the street that will be rebuilt after the current station construction is complete has nothing whatsoever to do with extending the line to UBC.

logan5 · #**1007** Posted **Mar 24, 2023, 10:56 PM**

Why can't we create even more space for both a bike lane and patio space by having larger setbacks for each development? A small density bonus should alleviate developer concerns.

Migrant_Coconut · #**1008** Posted **Mar 24, 2023, 11:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by chowhou

Is it? I actually appreciate the dedicated bus+cycle lanes on the North Shore as a cyclist (but I guess only because it's an upgrade from sharing with busses and cars.)

Separate lanes, no problem. Buses with only 20-30 minute frequencies, not much problem.

When you've got up to 16 buses an hour on a single stretch of Broadway - 24, if you count the 15/16/17 for a couple of blocks - then either they're all going to bunch up behind one bike ambling along Broadway (the Macdonald-Arbutus slope is a special PITA for bus passengers), or the bikes have to worry about an eleven-ten vehicle passing on their left as often as it takes to loop a Tragically Hip song.

GenWhy? · #**1009** Posted **Mar 24, 2023, 11:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by logan5

Why can't we create even more space for both a bike lane and patio space by having larger setbacks for each development? A small density bonus should alleviate developer concerns.

In addition to what the City is doing with the existing street, all new developments (you can see a few now) are required to step back an additional 1.5 metres from their property line and gift to the City for roadway use. This should total a sidewalk as wide as 5.5 metres from building to sidewalk curb, today. So 18 feet now, plus whatever they are going to add.

Lexus · #**1010** Posted **Mar 25, 2023, 12:25 AM**

I have biked from UBC to Burnaby 4 years straight. I will take 10th Ave no matter what they make on Broadway. It’s just always gonna be safer on 10th. I would still support reducing car lanes on Broadway though.
BTW. Saw a funny thing today driving Along Cambie St. SB. There was a block with a new development with 2 car lanes and then a curb after a bike lane and a side walk. FedEx just parked in a curb lane … 0 fucks given, and left to do deliveries, leaving only one through lane left… this is to a point that planners should also think about space for loading unloading zones.

chowhou · #**1011** Posted **Mar 25, 2023, 12:33 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexus

I have biked from UBC to Burnaby 4 years straight. I will take 10th Ave no matter what they make on Broadway. It’s just always gonna be safer on 10th. I would still support reducing car lanes on Broadway though.
BTW. Saw a funny thing today driving Along Cambie St. SB. There was a block with a new development with 2 car lanes and then a curb after a bike lane and a side walk. FedEx just parked in a curb lane … 0 fucks given, and left to do deliveries, leaving only one through lane left… this is to a point that planners should also think about space for loading unloading zones.

I've yelled at a couple Ubers on Esplanade in North Vancouver doing the same thing. There are pedestrian bulbs all along Esplanade and commercial drivers do not give a single fuck about blocking the bike lanes if they can squeeze into the end of the parking lane at an angle.

As the saying goes, "Paint is not infrastructure!" Paint doesn't stop drivers from breaking the law.

IMO loading zones won't fix that problem. The more skilled you are as a commercial driver the more skilled you are at knowing exactly how many traffic laws you can break and get away with. If parking in the curb lane or bike lane saves 5 seconds and you won't get caught, they do not give a single fuck.

Lexus · #**1012** Posted **Mar 25, 2023, 12:48 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by chowhou

I've yelled at a couple Ubers on Esplanade in North Vancouver doing the same thing. There are pedestrian bulbs all along Esplanade and commercial drivers do not give a single fuck about blocking the bike lanes if they can squeeze into the end of the parking lane at an angle.

As the saying goes, "Paint is not infrastructure!" Paint doesn't stop drivers from breaking the law.

IMO loading zones won't fix that problem. The more skilled you are as a commercial driver the more skilled you are at knowing exactly how many traffic laws you can break and get away with. If parking in the curb lane or bike lane saves 5 seconds and you won't get caught, they do not give a single fuck.

I actually mostly agree.

Klazu · #**1013** Posted **Mar 25, 2023, 12:50 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by s211

These people actually want to reduce traffic and impede emergency access to the hospital, for instance. Talk about blinders on.

Cycling wackos have already achieved this with BC Children's where emergency room access from east has been completely decimated by idiotic bikelane arrangements blocking access from 29th and Cambie. Now ambulances have to spend an extra 5+ minutes getting around to the ER, which is poorly located in the new building at the back of the hospital. I just wonder how many hundreds of urgent ambulance rides have been delayed just a bit too much by this madness.

It's even worse if you would be bringing someone in critical condition on your own for the first time and not being familiar with the area. Not being able to access a hospital that you can see from a distance due to imbecile bikelanes is sure to have cost some little patients dearly.

chowhou · #**1014** Posted **Mar 25, 2023, 1:31 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klazu

Cycling wackos have already achieved this with BC Children's where emergency room access from east has been completely decimated by idiotic bikelane arrangements blocking access from 29th and Cambie. Now ambulances have to spend an extra 5+ minutes getting around to the ER, which is poorly located in the new building at the back of the hospital. I just wonder how many hundreds of urgent ambulance rides have been delayed just a bit too much by this madness.

It's even worse if you would be bringing someone in critical condition on your own for the first time and not being familiar with the area. Not being able to access a hospital that you can see from a distance due to imbecile bikelanes is sure to have cost some little patients dearly.

Oh damn you're so right, that's why all those distraught parents with dead children and PTSD'd out ER pediatricians and nurses with dead patients are so up in arms about the bike lanes! After all, those are the most vocal and militant activists about child health, right?

Forget MADD, MABLE (Mothers Against Bike Lane Extremism) have been going ballistic recently, so I hear!

Copium!

whatnext · #**1015** Posted **Mar 25, 2023, 1:41 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feathered Friend

https://twitter.com/christineeboyle/status/1639333831361859585?s=20

I’m not really sure why anyone would give a second thought to what Christine Boyle and her flailing OneCity party think. Maybe she should spend more time contemplating why once again she’s their only a councillor. Had ABC run a full slate she wouldn’t even have that.

As to Heymann, he will be facing the same voters who tossed the mayoral candidate the NDP fully endorsed just a few months ago.

officedweller · #**1016** Posted **Mar 25, 2023, 2:28 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexus

I have biked from UBC to Burnaby 4 years straight. I will take 10th Ave no matter what they make on Broadway. It’s just always gonna be safer on 10th. I would still support reducing car lanes on Broadway though.

I agree.
Placing bikes on a heavily trafficked arterial (including buses), when there are bike routes on quieter streets immediately adjacent is just "virtue signalling".
(i.e. bike lanes on Cambie)
Ultimately, it is putting the cyclists in danger because of the higher risk of being next to more traffic (not to metion breathing more exhaust pollution).
It would be better to improved the safety level of the bike lanes on the side streets if that's a concern.

Feathered Friend · #**1017** Posted **Mar 25, 2023, 4:32 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext

I’m not really sure why anyone would give a second thought to what Christine Boyle and her flailing OneCity party think. Maybe she should spend more time contemplating why once again she’s their only a councillor. Had ABC run a full slate she wouldn’t even have that.

As to Heymann, he will be facing the same voters who tossed the mayoral candidate the NDP fully endorsed just a few months ago.

Regardless of whether your guess that the results of the upcoming provincial election will defy the polls is accurate or not, it's noteworthy that a provincial minister is supporting this, especially given the funding shortfall.

As for citing the One City councilor, I have no partisan motives, its simply where I first saw the letter.

Migrant_Coconut · #**1018** Posted **Mar 25, 2023, 5:19 AM**

Bike lanes aside, there's as much chance of Prince George flipping Green as Vancouver-Granville flipping Liberal - it keeps getting more and more orange every four years.

Changing City · #**1019** Posted **Mar 25, 2023, 5:23 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by officedweller

I agree.
Placing bikes on a heavily trafficked arterial (including buses), when there are bike routes on quieter streets immediately adjacent is just "virtue signalling".
(i.e. bike lane on Cambie)
Ultimately, it is putting the cyclists in danger because of the higher risk of being next to more traffic (not to metion breathing more exhaust pollution).
It would be better to improved the safety level of the bike lanes on the side streets if that's a concern.

The fact that there are bike routes on parallel streets is irrelevent if the cyclists are accessing shops, services or restaurants on Broadway, which should become an even more active and less heavily trafficked street. And with a high proportion of restaurants in the retail mix, there's a greater number of bike delivery cyclists using the street too.

It's a lost opportunity to provide bike lanes now, after traffic has found other routes while construction has restricted lanes. All that will happen instead is that cyclists will ride on the sidewalk, and cause problems for the pedestrians. Clearly cyclists are expected to access Broadway - there are bike racks all along the street. It's just that there's no convenient or easy way to use them. For the sake of the convenience for drivers to park on the street, the convenience of cyclists and pedestrians will be ignored.

Migrant_Coconut · #**1020** Posted **Mar 25, 2023, 5:41 AM**

Let's be real - there'll be bikes riding on the sidewalk whether they have dedicated lanes or not. Meanwhile, the buses need at least two lanes per side (or bus bays, which most urbanists think are bad) in order to pass MV traffic and each other.