Broadway Corridor Development Plan - Page 49

logan5 · #**961** Posted **Mar 23, 2023, 4:30 AM**

I'm a big proponent of bike lanes along Broadway, but I wouldn't want them to be at the expense of the proposed expanded patio space. That patio space could make Broadway a much more vibrant place to be, as the patios would counteract the deleterious effects of the generic retail facades. The design of patio spaces can add a lot of character.

FarmerHaight · #**962** Posted **Mar 23, 2023, 4:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by logan5

I'm a big proponent of bike lanes along Broadway, but I wouldn't want them to be at the expense of the proposed expanded patio space. That patio space could make Broadway a much more vibrant place to be, as the patios would counteract the deleterious effects of the generic retail facades. The design of patio spaces can add a lot of character.

Priority number one for Broadway should be wider sidewalks and patio spaces. But to improve the pedestrian experience traffic speeds and volumes need to be reduced. I know I prefer eating on patios along Robson over patios along Georgia.

If a significant number of buses will still run on Broadway after the completion of the subway, maybe the outside vehicle lane could be a combined bike and bus lane.

Forager · #**963** Posted **Mar 23, 2023, 5:19 PM**

I'm both a driver and a bike rider, but I don't love the idea of bike lanes along Broadway if it means constricting the movement of goods/services/vehicles in an area that will become a critical extension of the downtown core. An alternative might be to relocate the bike route in this area from 10th Ave to 7th, and make the street open to one-way traffic only.

GenWhy? · #**964** Posted **Mar 23, 2023, 5:20 PM**

Option #1 isn't even against bike lanes on Broadway. It's to not rush to get it in place by summer 2024 to align with the work being don on the subway. Staff is concerned on a rushed job that has an impossible timeline to design and build to coordinate with the Province and TransLink on jurisdiction and conflicts at the station areas.

The mid-2024 timeline to negotiate and get permission and design is unrealistic.

FarmerHaight · #**965** Posted **Mar 23, 2023, 8:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forager

I'm both a driver and a bike rider, but I don't love the idea of bike lanes along Broadway if it means constricting the movement of goods/services/vehicles in an area that will become a critical extension of the downtown core. An alternative might be to relocate the bike route in this area from 10th Ave to 7th, and make the street open to one-way traffic only.

IMO, Broadway does not need to be a thoroughfare to be part of the downtown core. In fact, if Broadway is meant to be a destination with commercial, residential, and office uses, one could argue making the street most efficient for moving vehicles though the area is antithetical.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Option #1 isn't even against bike lanes on Broadway. It's to not rush to get it in place by summer 2024 to align with the work being don on the subway. Staff is concerned on a rushed job that has an impossible timeline to design and build to coordinate with the Province and TransLink on jurisdiction and conflicts at the station areas.

The mid-2024 timeline to negotiate and get permission and design is unrealistic.

And isn't the reason they are "rushing" is to ensure an expensive street rebuild isn't required five or ten years after the completion of the subway? If you're going to remove traffic lanes and otherwise redo the right of way, what better time then when: a) large portions of the street have already been ripped up, and b) when many drivers have already gotten used to avoiding Broadway for quick east/west trips across the city?

Migrant_Coconut · #**966** Posted **Mar 23, 2023, 8:30 PM**

Again, bearing in mind that there'll be five FTN feeder bus routes still moving through Central Broadway, a 2-3 lane road (and/or bus bays) doesn't sound like a good idea.

GenWhy? · #**967** Posted **Mar 23, 2023, 9:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

And isn't the reason they are "rushing" is to ensure an expensive street rebuild isn't required five or ten years after the completion of the subway? If you're going to remove traffic lanes and otherwise redo the right of way, what better time then when: a) large portions of the street have already been ripped up, and b) when many drivers have already gotten used to avoiding Broadway for quick east/west trips across the city?

I don't exactly know 100%, but my interpretation from the report was that to consult, design, begin construction AND coordinate and get permissions from both the Province and TransLink all by mid-2024 is pretty tight.

I think they just want more time to do it right, and be able to integrate it well with the new station areas / entrances, etc (think that's mentioned in the report). I don't blame them. Going down to 2 lanes each way with what I recall to be similar to how Pender is used (parking off peak?). It all seems very chaotic and driver-less on what they want built.

GenWhy? · #**968** Posted **Mar 23, 2023, 9:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Again, bearing in mind that there'll be five FTN feeder bus routes still moving through Central Broadway, a 2-3 lane road (and/or bus bays) doesn't sound like a good idea.

Why not? I lane for cars, 1 for buses during peak and no parking on the street, so 2 full lanes off-peak.

GenWhy? · #**969** Posted **Mar 23, 2023, 9:21 PM**

I should back up an re-mention as I did months ago that I'm not sure if the City is presenting their space allocation taking into full consideration the additional ROW from each new development along Broadway. It's about an extra 5 feet allocated to sidewalk space, taken from private property and "gifted" to the City. The Broadway ROW currently is massively wide, and that's even without adding the extra 5 feet on either side of the road.

An extra automatic 10 feet is a lot. That's about 3 metres and if I recall about the equivalent of a 2-way bike lane?

whatnext · #**970** Posted **Mar 23, 2023, 9:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Why not? I lane for cars, 1 for buses during peak and no parking on the street, so 2 full lanes off-peak.

LOL, one lane for cars on the major arterial for our so called "second downtown"?

There's an established bike lane on 10th that services the same area. Just remove all the car parking there. Oh wait, the city removed the parking minimums required for all the new buildings that will go up on 10th.

GenWhy? · #**971** Posted **Mar 23, 2023, 9:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext

LOL, one lane for cars on the major arterial for our so called "second downtown"?

There's an established bike lane on 10th that services the same area. Just remove all the car parking there. Oh wait, the city removed the parking minimums required for all the new buildings that will go up on 10th.

No more parking minimums! Free market, baby!

GenWhy? · #**972** Posted **Mar 23, 2023, 9:27 PM**

I don't care if bike lanes go in here, honestly, I'm more concerned about space for pedestrians and transit.

chowhou · #**973** Posted **Mar 23, 2023, 9:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

No more parking minimums! Free market, baby!

Remove parking minimums and remove free parking; Problem solved. It's madness that we give public land away for free to people to store their cars.

I think option 3 was never really an option, so between option 1 and 2 there isn't much of a vehicular capacity difference. It's all a matter of whether these single blocks should have short bike lanes, or if the pedestrian + business friendly space should be expanded. My understanding is this plan was never for a continuous bike lane alone Broadway and was for short single block bike lanes so that doesn't seem like an effective use of space to me. In between stations I don't think they're planning on touching Broadway at all. Making the short blocks more pedestrian + business friendly makes sense to me.

s211 · #**974** Posted **Mar 23, 2023, 9:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext

LOL, one lane for cars on the major arterial for our so called "second downtown"?

Indeed. But don't tilt at the cyclist windmill, lest you wish the wrath of Critical Mass.

These people actually want to reduce traffic and impede emergency access to the hospital, for instance. Talk about blinders on.

chowhou · #**975** Posted **Mar 23, 2023, 9:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by s211

These people actually want to reduce traffic and impede emergency access to the hospital, for instance. Talk about blinders on.

If expanded bike lanes and sidewalks were impeding emergency access to the hospital, don't you think the hospital would be the first to complain? The VGH emergency access literally has a bike lane crossing the entrance; Doesn't seem to be a problem for them. I don't think they need you fighting their battle for them (especially when the average doctor would probably tell you to walk and cycle more and drive less!)

GenWhy? · #**976** Posted **Mar 23, 2023, 9:49 PM**

Exactly, TBH I've never seen a route plan

chowhou · #**977** Posted **Mar 23, 2023, 10:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Exactly, TBH I've never seen a route plan

10th and Oak has a big "HOSPITAL ZONE" crosswalk and signs pointing towards emergency, so I assume they generally enter the hospital complex there.

I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't have explicit routes and always tried to find the path of least resistance. Theoretically emergency vehicles need to access everywhere, so there shouldn't be any streets off limits.

Changing City · #**978** Posted **Mar 23, 2023, 10:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by s211

Indeed. But don't tilt at the cyclist windmill, lest you wish the wrath of Critical Mass.

These people actually want to reduce traffic and impede emergency access to the hospital, for instance. Talk about blinders on.

I understand Critical Mass is now sponsored by ABC.

"These people actually want to reduce traffic" is a bad thing?

s211 · #**979** Posted **Mar 23, 2023, 11:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by chowhou

If expanded bike lanes and sidewalks were impeding emergency access to the hospital, don't you think the hospital would be the first to complain? The VGH emergency access literally has a bike lane crossing the entrance; Doesn't seem to be a problem for them. I don't think they need you fighting their battle for them (especially when the average doctor would probably tell you to walk and cycle more and drive less!)

I live in the area. Broadway is ambulance alley. It's critical infrastructure. FOR MILES EACH WAY. Anyone arguing differently has their bike helmet on too tight.

chowhou · #**980** Posted **Mar 23, 2023, 11:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by s211

I live in the area. Broadway is ambulance alley. It's critical infrastructure. FOR MILES EACH WAY. Anyone arguing differently has their bike helmet on too tight.

I'll wait and see if the BC Ambulance Service cares. The improved pedestrian + business access around Skytrain stations seems like a no-brainer to me, I'm not even in support of the bike lane option!