AUSTIN | Transportation Updates

[freerover]

Originally Posted by H2O

But for how long? Even the TxDOT spokesman said "We know we can't build our way out of congestion". And yet they keep trying.

This is less of a freeway expansion project and more like a new freeway. 183 south of 71 is just a road.

[atxsnail]

Originally Posted by H2O

But for how long? Even the TxDOT spokesman said "We know we can't build our way out of congestion". And yet they keep trying.

I don't think it's set up for dynamic pricing, but when it comes to that point they can increase tolls. The toll road is at least theoretically congestion-resistant though of course that leads to other issues like equity

[Sigaven]

Originally Posted by dilliam

It all comes down to inflation and the interest rate hikes that followed. We just can afford to service the same amount of debt as we originally planned for.

Depressing as hell, but honestly, I'd vote to raise more funds again if it meant we could get the original plan.

Same here, please, take my money.

[ahealy]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I really cannot believe this is happening with project connect. I need to rant.

Last night I sat up in bed thinking of all the ads, articles and promise back in '20. I encouraged a lot of friends who normally don't vote to make this happen. The fact that we got it to pass under those circumstances/price tag during a pandemic and economic slump was astonishing....and here we are. Mark my words, this will not happen again in our lifetimes. This is THE perfect soundbite for anti-transit groups and true NIMBYs. I just have zero faith in the city/capital metro at this point. It probably doesn't help I know several individuals who work for both that I cannot stand ....or understand how they have jobs in general.

Also, I've never even heard of Yellowjacket Ln. AM I DREAMING?! WAKE ME UP!

[freerover]

Originally Posted by ahealy

Not to beat a dead horse, but I really cannot believe this is happening with project connect. I need to rant.

Last night I sat up in bed thinking of all the ads, articles and promise back in '20. I encouraged a lot of friends who normally don't vote to make this happen. The fact that we got it to pass under those circumstances/price tag during a pandemic and economic slump was astonishing....and here we are. Mark my words, this will not happen again in our lifetimes. This is perfect bait for anti-transit groups and true NIMBYs. I just have zero faith in the city/capital metro at this point. It probably doesn't help I know several individuals who work for both that I cannot stand ....or understand how they have jobs in general.

Also, I've never even heard of Yellowjacket Ln. AM I DREAMING?! WAKE ME UP!

Surely you can understand why a street you never heard of would be where they would put the train yard / maintenance facility?

[ahealy]

Originally Posted by freerover

Surely you can understand why a street you never heard of would be where they would put the train yard / maintenance facility?

Oh, I thought Yellowjacket was there the line ends? I understood that to be the end destination, which, in my mind is the line to nowhere.

[freerover]

Originally Posted by ahealy

Oh, I thought Yellowjacket was there the line ends? I understood that to be the end destination, which, in my mind is the line to nowhere.

Nowhere is where train yards go because you need a lot of relatively cheap land.

[ahealy]

Originally Posted by freerover

Nowhere is where train yards go because you need a lot of relatively cheap land.

I don't think the original proposals were expensive lines to nowhere though?? Were they?

[freerover]

Originally Posted by ahealy

I don't think the original proposals were expensive lines to nowhere though?? Were they?

Since when is downtown, UT, Auditorium Shores, Oltorf, east riverside, SoCo, Monopolis, the capitol and North Campus 'nowhere'?

Are you entirely hung up on the literal last stop of the line? Maybe you've never used other transit systems but it's not uncommon for a line to terminate outside of the urban core that most people might not attend. I can assure you though there are a lot of working class families that live at Monopolies and Yellow Jacket (basically 71) that might not appreciate the sentiment. Also pointing out the obvious advantage of having the line end along a major highway with a park and ride. People coming form 130 or Bastrop can park at Yellowjacket and take the line to any of the non-nowhere stops which is (again) quite common with public transit.

[papertowelroll]

Originally Posted by Enghum

My initial reaction is that the Partial Elevated: 29th to Oltorf to Yellow jacket would be the most likely to get us to a successful vote on phase 2. Get construction started and tee up a vote on phase 2 for 2026 on extensions North and south on the Orange line plus to the airport. Phase 3 vote would be the second river crossing, gold line extension, Orange line to tech ridge, and Orange line to Slaughter after the initial operating segment is completed in 2030. That gets us nearly everything in the initial plan by 2040. Seattle did this really well with their vote timings and maintaining voter motivations for each phase of their plan.

Edit: I know pleasant valley to North Lamar isn't a bad plan. I am just afraid that is all we will get done for a while.

As a north loop resident I much prefer the North Lamar to Pleasant Valley plan, and I think that's easily the most functional of these as a standalone system, even if it is at grade downtown.

That said you make a compelling argument for the Partial Elevated plan, and I think I have to agree with you that it might be the best way to go. It gives us grade separation downtown and serves three directions decently, but not good enough to keep them from voting for extensions. While it really sucks compared to what was originally proposed it would still be amazing for Austin to build this system IMO. The absolute worse thing we can do is build nothing.

[papertowelroll]

Originally Posted by papertowelroll

As a north loop resident I much prefer the North Lamar to Pleasant Valley plan, and I think that's easily the most functional of these as a standalone system, even if it is at grade downtown.

That said you make a compelling argument for the Partial Elevated plan, and I think I have to agree with you that it might be the best way to go. It gives us grade separation downtown and serves three directions decently, but not good enough to keep them from voting for extensions. While it really sucks compared to what was originally proposed it would still be amazing for Austin to build this system IMO. The absolute worse thing we can do is build nothing.

The one thing that really, really sucks about the partial elevated plan is that it doesn't have a single red line connection. I really like the idea of this new line giving the red line a boost of usefulness, and I don't think that happens here.

[ahealy]

Originally Posted by freerover

Since when is downtown, UT, Auditorium Shores, Oltorf, east riverside, SoCo, Monopolis, the capitol and North Campus 'nowhere'?

Are you entirely hung up on the literal last stop of the line? Maybe you've never used other transit systems but it's not uncommon for a line to terminate outside of the urban core that most people might not attend. I can assure you though there are a lot of working class families that live at Monopolies and Yellow Jacket (basically 71) that might not appreciate the sentiment. Also pointing out the obvious advantage of having the line end along a major highway with a park and ride. People coming form 130 or Bastrop can park at Yellowjacket and take the line to any of the non-nowhere stops which is (again) quite common with public transit.

Yes, I am familiar with mass public transit plans.

...and I don't care if someone doesn't like my comment about that area tbh .

That particular route is crap, which the vast majority of Austin will not use. We need N + S connectivity, not UT, DT to....a park and ride.

[freerover]

Originally Posted by ahealy

Yes, I am familiar with mass public transit plans.

...and I don't care if someone doesn't like my comment about that area tbh .

That particular route is crap, which the vast majority of Austin will not use. We need N + S connectivity, not UT, DT to....a park and ride.

It's also not my favorite plan but you were were the one referencing it. There is a more N/S route that goes all the way to 183 with 40,000 projected daily users so maybe reference that one?

Obviously we want to build the entire system. This is the 1st phase. Once you build the first section, then you extend it. That's. literally how all transit systems work.

Originally Posted by papertowelroll

The one thing that really, really sucks about the partial elevated plan is that it doesn't have a single red line connection. I really like the idea of this new line giving the red line a boost of usefulness, and I don't think that happens here.

Yeah, not my favorite plan and I doubt it gets picked. If it does, not sure if it makes more sense to still try to go up trinity and cross 4th with LRT or extend the Red/Greed line from the convention center to Republic Square.

[ahealy]

Originally Posted by freerover

It's also not my favorite plan but you were were the one referencing it. There is a more N/S route that goes all the way to 183 with 40,000 projected daily users so maybe reference that one?

Obviously we want to build the entire system. This is the 1st phase. Once you build the first section, then you extend it. That's. literally how all transit systems work.





Yeah, not my favorite plan and I doubt it gets picked. If it does, not sure if it makes more sense to still try to go up trinity and cross 4th with LRT or extend the Red/Greed line from the convention center to Republic Square.

For sure...and I don't mean to be short, just pissy about all this. Which plan do you think will actually come to fruition? I wonder if PRT might come into the picture again. Just build "The Wire" system

[freerover]

Originally Posted by ahealy

For sure...and I don't mean to be short, just pissy about all this. Which plan do you think will actually come to fruition? I wonder if PRT might come into the picture again. Just build "The Wire" system

I get it. No one is happy. The reality is we can't afford what we want and that's always a shitty feeling. However, we have to look forward and we need to work towards sustainable city design. This gets us toward that goal.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by ahealy

Just build "The Wire" system

You think we're seeing cost increases now

[freerover]

[ahealy]

Interesting. Are they also doing a sort of racial equity study? Not sure why BIPOC is on the chart? Our is it something else?

Seems like N. Lamar meets everything head on

[freerover]

Originally Posted by ahealy

Interesting. Are they also doing a sort of racial equity study? Not sure why BIPOC is on the chart? Our is it something else?

Seems like N. Lamar meets everything head on

It seems like the strongest candidate however it's all at grade so there are tradeoffs. It's jus not clear that we will need the 2050 capacity that we predicted we would pre-covid. Time is infinite so maybe we need it someday but it might not be for a really long time. Still, pedestrians and auto traffic means it's going to be slower downtown.


The layers and layers and layers of overlapping government agencies make this such an annoying process. State, county, city, federal, CAMPO, Cap Metro, and now ATP that has to work between all of them playing moderator/peacekeepr/begger. The fact that yahoos elected from east Texas hundreds of hours away have power over what we choose to do with our land is just insane.

[dilliam]

Originally Posted by papertowelroll

As a north loop resident I much prefer the North Lamar to Pleasant Valley plan, and I think that's easily the most functional of these as a standalone system, even if it is at grade downtown.

That said you make a compelling argument for the Partial Elevated plan, and I think I have to agree with you that it might be the best way to go. It gives us grade separation downtown and serves three directions decently, but not good enough to keep them from voting for extensions. While it really sucks compared to what was originally proposed it would still be amazing for Austin to build this system IMO. The absolute worse thing we can do is build nothing.

I have this exact same opinion. We have to start building ASAP and this one, while not quite extensive enough, will keep them wanting more basically teasing N/S/E Austin lol