Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[RHINO]

Yes, and even though weve got an automatic entry, the Kamloops Blazers would be there no matter what. The team is VERY good this year and a chance to win it all on home ice is even sweeter.

[esquire]

^ Yeah, the Blazers really loaded up at the trade deadline. But I'm counting on the Winnipeg ICE to win it all this year!!!!!!

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

It has premium seating but not nearly enough of it. what are we talking about 290 loge seats and 450 king club seats? Edmonton has more loge seats than that alone. I love Canada life center its my second favorite building in the league but it has design flaws in terms of expansion and adaptability in comparison to other clubs. Yes rogers arena and scotia bank arena are older but they are/were expandable and hold enough room to adapt to current standards. CLC doesn't. I mean I've come up with a few ideas on how they could add 1500 loge seats and maybe they will which would definitely extend the life of the building. But at some point the rest of league is going to have buildings that far outweigh the revenue potential of CLC unless some major structural changes happen and I envision that need to keep up with the jonses happening in the next 20 years as the league trends dictate the revenue needs of the jets. General seating in CLC isnt an issue, its the lack of premium seating which youre seeing spread around the league like wildfire. Except, the difference is You cant afford to canniblize general seating to replace them with loge seats in CLC, they have to be added.

Look what's happening in pretty much every sports arena right now. Club seating is becoming huge. Atlanta,montreal,LA,newyork,edmonton ect. they have all been slowly ditching the over supply of cooperate suites for patio style, loge seats. hell just about every arena in the league is transitioning to these types or renos or builds, and they have the room to do it. not an immediate concern but i see true north looking for funding in 2035

]

Canada Life Centre has 55 suites, 1000 club seats and about 270 or so loge seats. At this time, there really isn't any demand for additional premium seating as far as I know.

As mentioned above they could probably convert some seating in the lower bowl to premium seating but only if it makes economic sense and demand justifies it. There is also the option of adding sky suites/loges/club seating above the upper deck opposite the press box which could add a few hundred more pricier seats. Vancouver has something similar in their arena and those seats can go for a few hundred dollars a pop. If demand warrants it, that should satisfy this market for years to come.

Maybe in 10 or so years there will be initial discussions about a new arena, but as we know, these are long drawn out processes, so don't expect to see a new arena in Winnipeg until the 2040s at the earliest.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Regarding the pictures you posted, what's to say that the existing seats behind, say, the south net couldn't be transformed into something like that? Arenas change seating configurations all the time, and if there is a need for more premium seating there is no real obstacle to adding more of it at CLC.

These other arenas can do it because they have the dead zones to do it but still have a good amount of seats left. If Winnipeg has these dead zones that can be converted to a party deck in an already undersized arena, then that opens up the larger conversation of why?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

These other arenas can do it because they have the dead zones to do it but still have a good amount of seats left. If Winnipeg has these dead zones that can be converted to a party deck in an already undersized arena, then that opens up the larger conversation of why?

Why what? If the Jets replace some regular seating with premium seating and make more money that way even if overall capacity goes down, then what is the issue?

People are too fixated on simple capacity numbers. I mean, look at any overseas flight you go on. There is a reason that the airlines have lie-flat seats at the front of the cabin even though it drives overall capacity down considerably.

[GreatTallNorth2]

London City Council is looking at reinvesting in Budweiser Gardens. It was built 20 years ago for the London Knights and seats 9,000.

https://london.ctvnews.ca/reinvestme...city-1.6316044

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Regarding the pictures you posted, what's to say that the existing seats behind, say, the south net couldn't be transformed into something like that? Arenas change seating configurations all the time, and if there is a need for more premium seating there is no real obstacle to adding more of it at CLC.

Originally Posted by esquire

Why what? If the Jets replace some regular seating with premium seating and make more money that way even if overall capacity goes down, then what is the issue? .

The issue with converting general seating to premium is that its essentially net zero in winnipegs case. if you cannabilze 500 general lower bowl seats to create 330 premium seats you would have to price them astronomically high to improve your business model by a gate standard alone, then factor the losses of 170 patrons concession dollars you might be worse off. In bigger buildings with 19,500+ seats with large configurations this isn't an issue example (montreal,ottawa,chigago,philly,anahiem) but Winnipeg cant really afford to lose seating especially when demand is high.

I think the overall issue is how Canada Life stacks up to other arenas long term not today. For example where they fall on the building revenue chart.

lets say edmonton,newyork,montreal,toronto and Chicago are top 5 in no order. Winnipeg most likely sits around 23rd-27th as of today. So we could expect Winnipeg to sit probably right below the average in terms of gate and concession revenue. Still profitable but what happens when the league starts collectively renovating to todays standards and continues to build new arenas and CLC doesn't have the ability to follow those trends? In 2011 NHL arenas were basically still uniformly seats, luxery boxes and more seats. That is changing rapidly and as these new buildings continue to be built the pressure on the older buildings to renovate or replace gets greater because the average revenue goes up which effects your cap. So to stand still on these changes long term isn't an option club seating is becoming king.

And that's what makes CLC so difficult. It's still so new that in 10 years the thought of replacement is hard to imagine in Canada. The cap in 2011 was just under 65M today its 85M. It's only a matter of time until the salary cap outstrips the revenue potential of CLC in its current form. Ticket prices can only go up so far if anything True North has regressed from the top price Winnipeg is willing to pay to catch an NHL game.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

The issue with converting general seating to premium is that its essentially net zero in winnipegs case. if you cannabilze 500 general lower bowl seats to create 330 premium seats you would have to price them astronomically high to improve your business model by a gate standard alone, then factor the losses of 170 patrons concession dollars you might be worse off. In bigger buildings with 19,500+ seats with large configurations this isn't an issue example (montreal,ottawa,chigago,philly,anahiem) but Winnipeg cant really afford to lose seating especially when demand is high.

I think the overall issue is how Canada Life stacks up to other arenas long term not today. For example where they fall on the building revenue chart.

lets say edmonton,newyork,montreal,toronto and Chicago are top 5 in no order. Winnipeg most likely sits around 23rd-27th as of today. So we could expect Winnipeg to sit probably right below the average in terms of gate and concession revenue. Still profitable but what happens when the league starts collectively renovating to todays standards and continues to build new arenas and CLC doesn't have the ability to follow those trends? In 2011 NHL arenas were basically still uniformly seats, luxery boxes and more seats. That is changing rapidly and as these new buildings continue to be built the pressure on the older buildings to renovate or replace gets greater because the average revenue goes up which effects your cap. So to stand still on these changes long term isn't an option club seating is becoming king.

And that's what makes CLC so difficult. It's still so new that in 10 years the thought of replacement is hard to imagine in Canada. The cap in 2011 was just under 65M today its 85M. It's only a matter of time until the salary cap outstrips the revenue potential of CLC in its current form. Ticket prices can only go up so far if anything True North has regressed from the top price Winnipeg is willing to pay to catch an NHL game.

It may just be that expanded club seating in Winnipeg will have to be less dramatic than the kinds of club seating you see elsewhere. The existing club seating area looks and feels more or less like regular seating areas (the seats are maybe an inch wider and you have access to a small lounge space) and it's small, it's the exact same size it was when the AHL Moose were the prime tenant at Canada Life Centre. Maybe Winnipeg has to follow Calgary and Vancouver's lead and designate a large part of the lower bowl as club seating. You don't need to completely reconfigure the structure or replace it altogether if the end goal is just to jack up the cost of season tickets. You can just jack up the cost of season tickets.

[thurmas]

Jets will not be leaving CLC anytime soon. The amount of money they are pouring into true North Square development and now soon likely hundreds of millions more into redeveloping portage place mall on portage ave. They are there for the long haul.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by thurmas

Jets will not be leaving CLC anytime soon. The amount of money they are pouring into true North Square development and now soon likely hundreds of millions more into redeveloping portage place mall on portage ave. They are there for the long haul.

Hard to believe our little rink turns 20 next year. But yeah, Chipman has not even hinted at a replacement. And with all of the development that has taken place at either end of the arena, it seems unlikely that the process will be happening anytime soon.

[Oilkountry]

So hear me out. This my idea for CLC. Taking some inspiration from Scotia bank arena and rogers place. I think what they should do is add one these tower type seating arrangements on one or both ends of the arena upper bowls. Youre gonna lose a few of your cheapest seats. but in return you add a ton of premium seats that are right over the rink it would basically have the same veiw as the existing loge seats albeit a little higher but closer to the ice.

Secondly this option gives you the ablilty to add a second private club setting if you actually remove the current seating forms. But most importantly it gives you entrance and exits to add a multilevel ring of premium loge seats at the lower pressbox level which would become the 400 level (think chase sky bridge msg). You would need to address the extra 1000-1300 patrons clogging up the upper concourse but if the "sky walk?" had a few concessions. Really you're only adding bathroom congestion. And you might be able to sneak a bathroom or 2 in the towers. An lets be honest theirs a ton of extra room for more concourse space in the main atrium that is just dead air currently

[esquire]

^ I could see something like that working. The upper bowl end seats are the least expensive, yet lowest demand seats in the building. Not many people think they are worth the cost. So reconfiguring those areas might work.

That said, it is ironic that the way you deal with $90 seats you can't sell is to dress them up and make them $300 seats.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I could see something like that working. The upper bowl end seats are the least expensive, yet lowest demand seats in the building. Not many people think they are worth the cost. So reconfiguring those areas might work.

That said, it is ironic that the way you deal with $90 seats you can't sell is to dress them up and make them $300 seats.

That's so true BUT you are getting a way better view being pushed forward so much, way more comfortable seats and the private club setting. These are some of the most expensive seats in Edmonton. The sportsnet club in rogers place is a big hit with the fans. it's pretty genius if you ask me.

[esquire]

^ Are they really pushed forward though? Looking at that picture of Rogers Place it looks like the club seats are no more than a couple of feet ahead of the regular seats, at most. It's exclusivity that's the selling point there.

I will say, I sat in the Budweiser King Club seating area at CLC for the first time in a long time recently and those seats feel like they're an inch or two wider than the seats I'm used to. The comfort is nice.

[thurmas]

If memory serves me right i heard clc can be expanded if they build an overhang on Hargrave and build a tunnel reducing it to 1 lane of traffic.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Are they really pushed forward though? Looking at that picture of Rogers Place it looks like the club seats are no more than a couple of feet ahead of the regular seats, at most. It's exclusivity that's the selling point there.

I will say, I sat in the Budweiser King Club seating area at CLC for the first time in a long time recently and those seats feel like they're an inch or two wider than the seats I'm used to. The comfort is nice.

Oh 100% every level of the Sportsnet club is straight up and down from each other. So those higher levels start at the same distance from the ice as the lower levels.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by thurmas

If memory serves me right i heard clc can be expanded if they build an overhang on Hargrave and build a tunnel reducing it to 1 lane of traffic.

Can't speak on that theory but I'm not sure how that would help either. opportunity to add more concourse space I suppose? They will gain a ton of that with the moxies closure and if they needed more 300 level concourse it would be way cheaper to add more in the main atrium dead space, Over building an entire structure running along the outside of the building. CLC isn't lacking 300 level seats, certainly not nose bleed 300 level seating. I'm not sure that's the route i would take.

[drew]

Originally Posted by thurmas

If memory serves me right i heard clc can be expanded if they build an overhang on Hargrave and build a tunnel reducing it to 1 lane of traffic.

It's really not feasible. And this would only serve to add in more even cheaper seats and an immense construction price.

What IS feasible with CLC is expanding sky suites (similar to the press box) or adding suites/lounges at the same position as the newish organ location.

Otherwise, the arena is at the sweet spot for capacity and location in the Winnipeg market IMO. Plus it was comparatively dirt cheap to build ($134 million in 2004, ~$200 million in 2023 dollars).

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by drew

It's really not feasible. And this would only serve to add in more even cheaper seats and an immense construction price.

What IS feasible with CLC is expanding sky suites (similar to the press box) or adding suites/lounges at the same position as the newish organ location.

Otherwise, the arena is at the sweet spot for capacity and location in the Winnipeg market IMO. Plus it was comparatively dirt cheap to build ($134 million in 2004, ~$200 million in 2023 dollars).

You cant really do that if you look at an Arial of CLC those out walls are on the very edge of the arena itself. Unless you built some kind of cantilever structure on the side of the building but then how do you access them ect. would be a cool idea for additional 300 loge seats. knock down those walls and build a 5 foot platform around the arena but i think theirs lower hanging fruit in the press box level.

[drew]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

You cant really do that if you look at an Arial of CLC those out walls are on the very edge of the arena itself. Unless you built some kind of cantilever structure on the side of the building but then how do you access them ect. would be a cool idea for additional loge seats but i think theirs lower hanging fruit in the press box level.

Correct, at the very top it would be the ends/corners of the building. Lots of AHU's to move around though. But no actual building enlargement necessary - which is cost prohibitive.