Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Replacing the roof would be like building a new arena around the old. You get a lot of cost for only marginal benefits.

This is what Seattle did with their arena. $850M in 2019 dollars.

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

IT blows my mind that a city with the corporate wealth of Calgary is still struggling to gather funding for a new NHL arena.

There's enough corporate wealth to privately pay for an arena, but why do that when other cities had public funds contributed to theirs?

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by JHikka

There's enough corporate wealth to privately pay for an arena, but why do that when other cities had public funds contributed to theirs?

We wants what Edmonton Oilers got!!!

[EpicPonyTime]

I'm slightly concerned that talks resumed right around the time the Premier began hinting at provincial funding.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by JHikka

This is what Seattle did with their arena. $850M in 2019 dollars.

Well, the reverse of that. They kept the old roof and replaced and expanded everything under it.

[Oilkountry]

Just think in 2030-2035 we will be having the same chats about Winnipeg.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

Just think in 2030-2035 we will be having the same chats about Winnipeg.

What's the situation in the big three? I know Montreal and Toronto have made significant investments in their arenas recently. Are those guaranteed to stand the test of time? Unsure if Vancouver has made any investments beyond building a couple towers around it.

In Ottawa, if the current building (same era as the big three) had been built at LeBreton from the get-go, or even Hurdman, Lees, anywhere near the the now Confederation Line, I doubt the team would have been looking into a new arena over the last 8 years.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

Just think in 2030-2035 we will be having the same chats about Winnipeg.

Why? What is our arena lacking? To J.OT13's point, the big three have arenas older than ours and they don't seem to be considering replacement.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by esquire

Why? What is our arena lacking?

Seats???

[esquire]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Seats???

No. Adding regular seats at this point means adding empty seats. Unless the Jets start selling nosebleed seats for $30 or $40 a pop.

I am not aware that the arena is lacking private boxes or premium seating either, the Jets did add a ring of premium loge seats some years back so they did add some of that not long ago.

[WhipperSnapper]

IIRC, the 10 year licensing agreement with Scotiabank in Toronto can build a couple "bare bones" arenas.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

IIRC, the 10 year licensing agreement with Scotiabank in Toronto can build a couple "bare bones" arenas.

$800 million over 20 years. I would imagine that this sets a precedent which could go a long way in funding the new NHL arenas in Ottawa and Calgary.

Obviously, those two cities are not Toronto. Neither have the same international recognition, we both only have one major league team, not two like Toronto, so I don't expect either would be able to reach anywhere near $800 million over 20 years, but maybe $100-$200 million?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/sco...ghts-1.4271688

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Obviously, those two cities are not Toronto. Neither have the same international recognition, we both only have one major league team, not two like Toronto, so I don't expect either would be able to reach anywhere near $800 million over 20 years, but maybe $100-$200 million?

A lot of the valuation comes down to the concerts that the ACC, er Scotiabank, hosts as well.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by JHikka

A lot of the valuation comes down to the concerts that the ACC, er Scotiabank, hosts as well.

I would think that prime Hockey Night in Canada coverage, as well as 41 Raptors games helps, as well as the potential upside in team competitiveness when the deal was signed (realized with the Raptors in the first year, the Leafs not so much lol)

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

I would think that prime Hockey Night in Canada coverage, as well as 41 Raptors games helps, as well as the potential upside in team competitiveness when the deal was signed (realized with the Raptors in the first year, the Leafs not so much lol)

Yes of course, just adding that concerts also take up a considerable amount of dates at the venue as well, beyond the Leafs and Raptors.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by esquire

Why? What is our arena lacking? To J.OT13's point, the big three have arenas older than ours and they don't seem to be considering replacement.

It has premium seating but not nearly enough of it. what are we talking about 290 loge seats and 450 king club seats? Edmonton has more loge seats than that alone. I love Canada life center its my second favorite building in the league but it has design flaws in terms of expansion and adaptability in comparison to other clubs. Yes rogers arena and scotia bank arena are older but they are/were expandable and hold enough room to adapt to current standards. CLC doesn't. I mean I've come up with a few ideas on how they could add 1500 loge seats and maybe they will which would definitely extend the life of the building. But at some point the rest of league is going to have buildings that far outweigh the revenue potential of CLC unless some major structural changes happen and I envision that need to keep up with the jonses happening in the next 20 years as the league trends dictate the revenue needs of the jets. General seating in CLC isnt an issue, its the lack of premium seating which youre seeing spread around the league like wildfire. Except, the difference is You cant afford to canniblize general seating to replace them with loge seats in CLC, they have to be added.

Look what's happening in pretty much every sports arena right now. Club seating is becoming huge. Atlanta,montreal,LA,newyork,edmonton ect. they have all been slowly ditching the over supply of cooperate suites for patio style, loge seats. hell just about every arena in the league is transitioning to these types or renos or builds, and they have the room to do it. not an immediate concern but i see true north looking for funding in 2035

[esquire]

^ Regarding the pictures you posted, what's to say that the existing seats behind, say, the south net couldn't be transformed into something like that? Arenas change seating configurations all the time, and if there is a need for more premium seating there is no real obstacle to adding more of it at CLC.

The old Winnipeg Arena was a problem because it had virtually nothing in terms of premium seating. CLC has it, and we're just talking about possible marginal increases, similar to what is seen in those pictures. You don't build a new arena for 800 club seats unless you can get someone else to pay for it, but I don't see that tactic working for TNSE.

[JHikka]

Ottawa routinely reconfigures its arena to accommodate new areas for more premium seating or activations for games. CLC can do similar, it's just a cost-benefit analysis of whether removing 50 standard seats is worth the offset of adding 25 premium seats, or whatever the difference may be.

The bigger question for Winnipeg is whether there's enough demand for more premium seating in general, and whether their soft ticket demand continues onwards. The team has been mostly competitive recently so i'm curious to see what a rebuild would look like if they were to attempt one and what that would do to their overall demand in the market.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Ottawa routinely reconfigures its arena to accommodate new areas for more premium seating or activations for games. CLC can do similar, it's just a cost-benefit analysis of whether removing 50 standard seats is worth the offset of adding 25 premium seats, or whatever the difference may be.

The bigger question for Winnipeg is whether there's enough demand for more premium seating in general, and whether their soft ticket demand continues onwards. The team has been mostly competitive recently so i'm curious to see what a rebuild would look like if they were to attempt one and what that would do to their overall demand in the market.

Yeah, good point in the second paragraph. Although that said, I will say that the lower bowl and premium seats do tend to sell well. It's usually the upper bowl seats which tend to go unsold in noticeable numbers. Given the choice between dropping $220 for a pair of high upper bowl seats or watching on TV, most people opt for the latter.

I guess the question is how much more demand is there for higher-end seats? The pool of buyers is not going to be huge for those seats. Maybe you could add some, but not a lot. Maybe all you need is another, let's say, 250 premium seats to meet demand... that would not require a new building. You can bet that TNSE would already be agitating if they felt that there were hundreds or thousands of buyers being turned away for lack of appropriate premium seating options.

For what it's worth CLC did add a ring of loge seats at the bottom of the upper bowl a few years back, so there has been some activity on that front somewhat recently.

[RHINO]

KAMLOOPS SAND MAN CENTER

[esquire]

^ Nice barn. It's hosting the Memorial Cup this year, to Kelowna's chagrin. Apparently the rink there is not up to snuff?