Social Housing in Vancouver - The 14 Sites

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by dleung

So many questions about this one. Why isn't the firehall not integrated under a podium for more density? Why is the tower at Expo/Nelson rather than Expo/Beatty - wouldn't the Expo/Beatty corner be better for tower separation from 939 Expo?

The firehall access is probably better onto Beatty (2 way street) for accessing downtown via Smithe or Beatty, rather than onto Expo Blvd (1 way) or Nelson (very narrow 2 way). It would also be easier for trucks to return via Nelson.
The station also has a big driveway/forecourt.
At the present station, the trucks are often parked in front poking into the curb lane (for washing them), so this provides space to park them in front.

Construction-wise, it may be costly to build (in concrete) atop the clear-span fire truck bays. There was a project somewhere in east Van on top of a firehall, but that could have been wood frame on top of a concrete firehall.

The Beatty Nelson corner is also across from another condo tower (Nova) so similar to 939 Expo proximity if on the Beatty corner (and in line with Landmark 33), and the Arc has the Expo corner pretty open. But yes, it'll be close to 939 Expo.
Maybe they'll shift the tower a bit towards Beatty if possible, just not on the corner, or make it taller and skinnier.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by officedweller

The firehall access is probably better onto Beatty (2 way street) for accessing downtown via Smithe or Beatty, rather than onto Expo Blvd (1 way) or Nelson (very narrow 2 way). It would also be easier for trucks to return via Nelson.
The station also has a big driveway/forecourt.
At the present station, the trucks are often parked in front poking into the curb lane (for washing them), so this provides space to park them in front.

Construction-wise, it may be costly to build (in concrete) atop the clear-span fire truck bays. There was a project somewhere in east Van on top of a firehall, but that could have been wood frame on top of a concrete firehall.

The Beatty Nelson corner is also across from another condo tower (Nova) so similar to 939 Expo proximity if on the Beatty corner (and in line with Landmark 33), and the Arc has the Expo corner pretty open. But yes, it'll be close to 939 Expo.
Maybe they'll shift the tower a bit towards Beatty if possible, just not on the corner, or make it taller and skinnier.

It's possible your image explains the placement. The childcare needs outdoor space which isn't in constant shadow, and it appears that the Nelson / Beatty corner might be less in shadow. I assume the childcare will be using the roof of the firewall as the open space, so that could explain the location choice.

[casper]

Originally Posted by officedweller

The firehall access is probably better onto Beatty (2 way street) for accessing downtown via Smithe or Beatty, rather than onto Expo Blvd (1 way) or Nelson (very narrow 2 way). It would also be easier for trucks to return via Nelson.
The station also has a big driveway/forecourt.
At the present station, the trucks are often parked in front poking into the curb lane (for washing them), so this provides space to park them in front.

Construction-wise, it may be costly to build (in concrete) atop the clear-span fire truck bays. There was a project somewhere in east Van on top of a firehall, but that could have been wood frame on top of a concrete firehall.

Your thinking of this one.
https://goo.gl/maps/Vem4TEznqRnwRSpT9

Yes, it looks like a wood structure on top of the fire hall.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

Hope they also include lots of retail in these new developments. It is the Entertainment District after all.

It isn't the Entertainment District. There are two of those - Granville and North-East False Creek. These sites are all in False Creek North - further west than NEFC. Concord Pacific put retail nearby underneath The Max, and The Arc, and there's always some empty, often for years at a stretch. It tends to lease to services like lash bars, and nail studios, and a dog spa - but those already exist (along with a hair salon and a dentist). Apart from a sneaker cleaner, most 21st century services are already provided in the immediate area.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by casper

Your thinking of this one.
https://goo.gl/maps/Vem4TEznqRnwRSpT9

Yes, it looks like a wood structure on top of the fire hall.

It was:



[Construction Canada]

[officedweller]

Yes, that's it, thanks!

Originally Posted by Changing City

It's possible your image explains the placement. The childcare needs outdoor space which isn't in constant shadow, and it appears that the Nelson / Beatty corner might be less in shadow. I assume the childcare will be using the roof of the firewall as the open space, so that could explain the location choice.

That makes sense too.

***********

Vin's "Entertianment District" reference harks waaay back to when there was supposed to be commercial space at the north end Cambie Bridgehead and it was to be a "Sports and Entertainment District" and even included one of the social housing site (the triangle 1050 Expo Blvd one, I think).
The plazas and retail around One Pacific and The Arc are the remnants of that plan.

Here's a post of mine from the "Colours / One Pacific" thread:

Originally Posted by officedweller

This harks back to the concept of a plaza and market flanking the Smithe St. offramp with a market underneath.

It's really a marketing scheme for the Paragon Resort (3 towers), One Pacific (2 towers) and Colours (2 future towers).
Oddly, the 8th building is on a social housing site between Pacific and Expo Blvds.

The plan below shows that One Pacific has 2 podium levels of commercial (hopefully restaurant space, not office).
Hopefully, Colours will also have a generous amount of commercial space.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us
http://vancouver.ca/files/cov/committees...ard-report-68-smithe-street-de415916.pdf

In the video the "Stadium District" is called the "Entertainment District"

• Video Link

https://www.mikestewart.ca/presale/false-creek-central-by-concord-pacific/

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Vin's "Entertianment District" reference harks waaay back to when there was supposed to be commercial space at the north end Cambie Bridgehead and it was to be a "Sports and Entertainment District" and even included one of the social housing site (the triangle one, I think).
The plazas and retail around One Pacific and The Arc are the remnants of that plan.

Right, but that was never a plan - as you noted it was just a Concord marketing ploy, and never developed in reality. The City moved on, and really have planned a new Entertainment District as part of the Plaza of Nations redevelopment, (with the adjecent new park). The retail in that Cambie bridgehead area has been minor, local serving and painfully slow leasing spaces. There's no need, or sense in adding much more.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Right, but that was never a plan - as you noted it was just a Concord marketing ploy, and never developed in reality. The City moved on, and really have planned a new Entertainment District as part of the Plaza of Nations redevelopment, (with the adjecent new park). The retail in that Cambie bridgehead area has been minor, local serving and painfully slow leasing spaces. There's no need, or sense in adding much more.

Yeah, but you can see where the reference/confusion came from even if not a City initiative.
They could have built townhouses all around the bridge like next door at Waterworks, but they built retail.

Hopefully the area will find retail tenants. I tend to think that the west side of BC Place could be more successful for retail
than the east side of BC Place, just because of remoteness from the DTES (or rather, that retail will fail on the east side of BC Place like at the International Village mall).

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

I think Arc's at grade retail at Expo and Nelson is still vacant

So much City mandated ground floor commercial space is vacant for years after development, if not a decade.

I'm not sure how that area qualifies as an entertainment district either.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Right, but that was never a plan - as you noted it was just a Concord marketing ploy, and never developed in reality. The City moved on, and really have planned a new Entertainment District as part of the Plaza of Nations redevelopment, (with the adjecent new park). The retail in that Cambie bridgehead area has been minor, local serving and painfully slow leasing spaces. There's no need, or sense in adding much more.

I'd argue the Entertainment District starts and ends with the Parq casino and everything around it, which is fine.

[Sheba]

Red tape delays construction of Vancouver detox, social housing project approved 4 years ago

Stakeholders are frustrated a massive detox and social housing project approved by Vancouver city council more than four years ago is being held up by bureaucratic red tape.

The concerns come as the BC Coroners Service reports nearly seven people died per day of suspected illicit drug overdoses in January.

The potentially game-changing facility will be built on city-owned land on the north side of East 1st Avenue between Clark Drive and McLean Drive.

...

The city is partnering with BC Housing and Vancouver Coastal Health on the mixed-use development which was touted as the largest of its kind in B.C. when it was approved by council on Feb. 21, 2019.

With 97 affordable rental units, a new withdrawal management centre with 51 in-patient treatment beds and other addiction treatment services and a social enterprise space aimed at providing Indigenous services, it’s designed to tackle the twin affordability and addiction crises.

...

Construction on the large detox centre was planned for early 2020, pending development approvals, but BC Housing said it’s still waiting on building permits from the city.

The City of Vancouver said the original building design application was submitted based on regulations in the 2014 Vancouver Building Bylaw (VBBL) and the project experienced many delays due to “site challenges.”

“Due to these lengthy delays, the application could not be approved under the 2014 Vancouver Building Bylaw (i.e. too much time passed between staff receiving this submission and the VBBL being updated) and required the design to be aligned with the current 2019 VBBL,” City of Vancouver spokesperson Kirsten Langan said in an email.

Vancouver councillor Pete Fry told Global News he would have hoped city staff would have kept the building permit approval process on track after the disconnect between the current and older building bylaws was identified.

...

B.C.’s housing minister said he’s confident they will get the project up and running with construction underway this fall.

“The City of Vancouver understands how important this project is, we’re working through those bylaw changes that were brought in just recently,” Ravi Kahlon told Global News Tuesday.

...

[WarrenC12]

They are starting to clear the site south of the Main and Terminal modular home complex for the single-floor "expansion".

[GenWhy?]

That story about delays due to changing from the 2014 VBBL to the 2019 VBBL doesn't add up.

Their rezoning was approved by Council in February 2019, So I imagine they received their Conditions Letter a few weeks before the Public Hearing so I guess they started Development Permit drawings around that time (say January 2019) and started addressing the Conditions in the new drawings, with the expectation that by November 2019 they'd need to change drawings to meet the new code if they failed to meet their deadline.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

It isn't the Entertainment District. There are two of those - Granville and North-East False Creek. These sites are all in False Creek North - further west than NEFC. Concord Pacific put retail nearby underneath The Max, and The Arc, and there's always some empty, often for years at a stretch. It tends to lease to services like lash bars, and nail studios, and a dog spa - but those already exist (along with a hair salon and a dentist). Apart from a sneaker cleaner, most 21st century services are already provided in the immediate area.

Please refrain from saying more if you are not familiar about what had been planned before.

The problem why the area has not taken off is due to really bad planning and not allowing larger commercial complexes with retail, market, etc. for anchor retail stores to be located here, and the fact that Viewcone policies still exist. Lesser neighbourhoods in the suburbs are way more vibrant than any "entertainment districts" in Vancouver these days.

Originally Posted by Changing City

Right, but that was never a plan - as you noted it was just a Concord marketing ploy, and never developed in reality. The City moved on, and really have planned a new Entertainment District as part of the Plaza of Nations redevelopment, (with the adjecent new park). The retail in that Cambie bridgehead area has been minor, local serving and painfully slow leasing spaces. There's no need, or sense in adding much more.

Yeah, and hence your lovely nail and lash bars in existence. Don't want that, think outside the box.
Also, you speak of the Plaza of Nations as if it is miles away. That makes me chuckle.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

The problem why the area has not taken off is due to really bad planning and not allowing larger commercial complexes with retail, market, etc. for anchor retail stores to be located here.

Those are all allowed - Concord didn't build them. The are apparently not even following your advice and offering lowered rents to attract tenants - either that, or nobody wants to open a business here.

Concord also don't like to build non-market housing, which is the topic of the thread, (as you apparently hadn't noticed). That's why there were six unbuilt non-market housing sites, which mighy, finally, get developed now.

The developer at the Plaza of Nations (which isn't Concord) doesn't have the same problem with proposing some large format retail, and responding to the City's plans for a more vibrant waterfront that will be more animated. "The waterfront plaza and the waterfront promenade/seawall will be a focal point of restaurants and other publicly accessible uses and amenities within a fully pedestrian environment along the waterfront. The seawall edge will be designed with a variety of decks, seating and dining terraces; and will offer a variety of ways to enjoy the water’s edge including at on-water restaurants."

Oh, and the project respects the viewcones, and will be providing hundred of units of social housing.

[Migrant_Coconut]

If there was demand for a mall in Yaletown, somebody would've already pitched one back when there was enough empty space. But even Concord didn't believe their own hype about their "entertainment district."

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Those are all allowed - Concord didn't build them. The are apparently not even following your advice and offering lowered rents to attract tenants - either that, or nobody wants to open a business here.

Why won't everyone build a new mall then give it away for free? My business strategy is flawless and everyone in the Canadian business world is dumb but me!

[Migrant_Coconut]

It's almost as if entrepreneurs realize that a shopping centre in the wrong location can actually fail and sit empty...

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Those are all allowed - Concord didn't build them. The are apparently not even following your advice and offering lowered rents to attract tenants - either that, or nobody wants to open a business here.

Concord also don't like to build non-market housing, which is the topic of the thread, (as you apparently hadn't noticed). That's why there were six unbuilt non-market housing sites, which mighy, finally, get developed now.

The developer at the Plaza of Nations (which isn't Concord) doesn't have the same problem with proposing some large format retail, and responding to the City's plans for a more vibrant waterfront that will be more animated. "The waterfront plaza and the waterfront promenade/seawall will be a focal point of restaurants and other publicly accessible uses and amenities within a fully pedestrian environment along the waterfront. The seawall edge will be designed with a variety of decks, seating and dining terraces; and will offer a variety of ways to enjoy the water’s edge including at on-water restaurants."

Oh, and the project respects the viewcones, and will be providing hundred of units of social housing.

Allowed? That makes me laugh.

A 50 storey tower above a 5-6 storey podium structure allowed at these sites? If not, your argument is moot.

It is already quite apparent what happened to the casino which ended up blocking the stadium because nothing tall on large podiums are allowed. Same applies to the Plaza of Nations development. For such a coveted area, it is surely taking forever to build anything there. Obviously the profitability just isn't there. Might as well build ONLY social housing that will not bring in any economic benefits to a bankrupted City.

If all the restrictions in place here in Vancouver are repeated in the suburb town/city centres, we wouldn't be seeing any large commercial/mixed use projects happening there either.

Open your eyes.

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Why won't everyone build a new mall then give it away for free? My business strategy is flawless and everyone in the Canadian business world is dumb but me!

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

It's almost as if entrepreneurs realize that a shopping centre in the wrong location can actually fail and sit empty...

Yet the fastest growing town and city centres in the Lower Mainland are centred around malls or large commercial complexes. Which one other than the one close to the DTES is sitting empty?

* Metrotown
* Lougheed Town Centre
* Surrey Central Mall
* Coquitlam Centre Mall
* Richmond Centre Mall
*Aberdeen Centre Mall
* Oakridge Centre Mall
* Willowbrook Mall
* Shops at New Westminster (Skytrain Station Mall)
* Shops at the Shipyard
* Park Royal Mall

Now, which one have I missed?

[Migrant_Coconut]

Casinos are inherently short and wide in order to maximize the floor, building height does nothing for street activity (otherwise Beresford and Rosser would be thriving), and nobody ever said the area was “coveted” except for Concord trying to scam presale buyers.

Originally Posted by Vin

Yet the fastest growing town and city centres in the Lower Mainland are centred around malls or large commercial complexes. Which one other than the one close to the DTES is sitting empty?

* Metrotown
* Lougheed Town Centre
* Surrey Central Mall
* Coquitlam Centre Mall
* Richmond Centre Mall
*Aberdeen Centre Mall
* Oakridge Centre Mall
* Willowbrook Mall
* Shops at New Westminster (Skytrain Station Mall)
* Shops at the Shipyard
* Park Royal Mall

Now, which one have I missed?

Location, location, location; I must’ve missed the part where Yaletown is considered a “town centre.”

Anybody with any actual power to build a mall only needed to realize that it’s a downtown bedroom community that’s just 5-10 minutes away from a preexisting, larger, more successful mall. Your list should look more like Waterfront Centre, Royal Centre, Sinclair Centre, Denman Place and City Square. Even in the 'burbs, Arbutus Centre, Kingsgate, Il Mercato, Capilano Mall, Park & Tilford, Lansdowne and Parker Place aren't doing too well either; neither were Brentwood or Lougheed before they got their second wind.