Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Not in Quebec but definitely related to the French language and francophone identity...

Some Acadian groups are renewing calls for the Université de Moncton to be renamed as the school celebrates its 60th anniversary this year.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/university-moncton-name-change-2023-1.6765600?cmp=rss

Yeah, because we should continue to fight over something that happened in 1755.

Maybe they should just rename Moncton while they're at it. Though the Acadians might have to negotiate with indigenous groups on what to name it.

Great, important stuff, this...

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Yeah, because we should continue to fight over something that happened in 1755.

Maybe they should just rename Moncton while they're at it. Though the Acadians might have to negotiate with indigenous groups on what to name it.

Great, important stuff, this...

Ce qui est bon pour pitou est bon pour minou.

(What's good for the goose is good for the gander.)

My guess is that we're only getting started. Francophones in Canada are already a few years late to this party IMO.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Not in Quebec but definitely related to the French language and francophone identity...

Some Acadian groups are renewing calls for the Université de Moncton to be renamed as the school celebrates its 60th anniversary this year.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/university-moncton-name-change-2023-1.6765600?cmp=rss

This is a one time exemption to my embargo on this thread (because the post deals with a Moncton issue).

I have no problem with renaming UdeM.

But, this is for a different reason than the SAANB activists.

The SAANB radicals want to rename the university as a sign of defiance against centuries of anglophone dominance and oppression. They are free to have their own opinion.

Personally, I think the name is ill suited to the institution for a different reason - misrepresentation.

The name Universite de Moncton implies that it is the university for Moncton, meaning all Monctonians. This however is not the case. Only 1/3rd of Monctonians are francophone. 2/3rds of the population of the city are precluded from attending its namesake institution.

The Universite de Moncton is most definitely not Moncton's university.

I would suggest a name more meaningful to the francophone population. Unfortunately Universite d'Acadie is probably out due to the presence of Acadia University in Wolfville NS. Universite Beausejour is a possibility, as this is a popular designation amongst New Brunswick francophones (especially in the southeast). Universite Beausoleil might be a second choice if the intention of the SAANB is to stick it to the anglos since he was a hero of the Acadian resistance during the times of the Grande Derangement.

Fun fact. As a part time Wikipedia editor, I am the person mostly responsible for the Wikipedia article on Robert Monckton. He generally wasn't considered a horrible man by most historical sources. He was appointed by Governor Lawrence of NS to carry out the deportation and did as he was directed (he had little choice). He had a pretty distinguished military and political career actually.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

This is a one time exemption to my embargo on this thread (because the post deals with a Moncton issue).

I have no problem with renaming UdeM.

But, this is for a different reason than the SAANB activists.

The SAANB radicals want to rename the university as a sign of defiance against centuries of anglophone dominance and oppression. They are free to have their own opinion.

Personally, I think the name is ill suited to the institution for a different reason - misrepresentation.

The name Universite de Moncton implies that it is the university for Moncton, meaning all Monctonians. This however is not the case. Only 1/3rd of Monctonians are francophone. 2/3rds of the population of the city are precluded from attending its namesake institution.

The Universite de Moncton is most definitely not Moncton's university.

I would suggest a name more meaningful to the francophone population. Unfortunately Universite d'Acadie is probably out due to the presence of Acadia University in Wolfville NS. Universite Beausejour is a possibility, as this is a popular designation amongst New Brunswick francophones (especially in the southeast). Universite Beausoleil might be a second choice if the intention of the SAANB is to stick it to the anglos since he was a hero of the Acadian resistance during the times of the Grande Derangement.

Fun fact. As a part time Wikipedia editor, I am the person mostly responsible for the Wikipedia article on Robert Monckton. He generally wasn't considered a horrible man by most historical sources. He was appointed by Governor Lawrence of NS to carry out the deportation and did as he was directed (he had little choice). He had a pretty distinguished military and political career actually.

Another view among some Acadiens is that naming their university for Monc(k)ton is indirectly a very fitting middle finger (pied-de-nez as we say in French) towards someone who played a big role in the attempted eradication of the Acadien people.

In terms of a potential new name, I am hearing "Université de la Nouvelle-Acadie".

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Ce qui est bon pour pitou est bon pour minou.

(What's good for the goose is good for the gander.)

My guess is that we're only getting started. Francophones in Canada are already a few years late to this party IMO.

Yeah, great. Let's just relive the past over and over again.

FWIW, I think it's fine if they rename the University - in fact as MR mentions above, renaming it should probably be imperative. It's the outrage and continual efforts to drive barriers between people based upon language and culture that I have a problem with. Y'all don't really want to work together to strengthen the bond of the peoples of this fine country... just the opposite, it appears.

Interestingly, I started reading this thread because I wanted to learn more about the Francophone/Quebecois experience, and try to understand their/your point of view. Unfortunately, my opinion about the situation has become less positive than before I started reading this thread.

I'm pretty much at the point of not bothering with this anymore as I don't want my opinion of Quebec tarnished any further. Y'all are just too negative for me to want to continue. Have fun with it, as I'm sure you will.

[harls]

ROC, and MOC, and FOCK.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Yeah, great. Let's just relive the past over and over again.

FWIW, I think it's fine if they rename the University - in fact as MR mentions above, renaming it should probably be imperative. It's the outrage and continual efforts to drive barriers between people based upon language and culture that I have a problem with. Y'all don't really want to work together to strengthen the bond of the peoples of this fine country... just the opposite, it appears.

Interestingly, I started reading this thread because I wanted to learn more about the Francophone/Quebecois experience, and try to understand their/your point of view. Unfortunately, my opinion about the situation has become less positive than before I started reading this thread.

I'm pretty much at the point of not bothering with this anymore asAt l I don't want my opinion of Quebec tarnished any further. Y'all are just too negative for me to want to continue. Have fun with it, as I'm sure you will.

At least you are getting the largely unfiltered view which IMO is fairly rarely heard in English in Canada.

That to me would be a valuable insight if the shoe were on the other foot.

Though I can understand if some people don't like what they hear.

Another thing is that the tone is a symptom of the times. A lot of people are getting a little bit panicky and edgy because they are sensing that the solutions they have long pegged their hopes on aren't necessarily panning out.

Finally, note that while I do share a lot of these views, they don't all align with mine 100% perfectly.

But since there are so few contributors from my demographic on here, I try to provide what I sense is an accurate representation of the mood out there.

I mean, if I said that I think that Don Cherry is great and that tons of francophones think like me, that would not be giving you an accurate picture from francophone Canada.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I have no problem with renaming UdeM.

You have zero credibility on this until you undergo this first:

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=179491

[lio45]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Universite Beausejour

Universite Beausoleil

These sound like cheap-ass diploma mills.

The most prestigious universities are usually UdeX / UofX (they also tend to be the oldest and main ones in their cities) therefore if I were UdeM, I'd definitely resist a name change. They're named for the city, after all.

If Monc(k)ton is unpalatable, then change the city's name and the university's name problem immediately vanishes. If Moncton becomes Lioville, then UdeM is now UdeL which sounds as serious as any other name of that style -- it's just a lateral change, not a downgrade like "Bright Sun University" or "Nice Stay University" would be

[Nashe]

I wonder if Prince William ever gets any flak over branding. I would think an Englishman would want to distance himself from any perceived links to that Norman William the Conqueror guy. I mean... it was only 1000 years ago. Too soon for some Anglo-Saxons, I'd wager.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Interestingly, I started reading this thread because I wanted to learn more about the Francophone/Quebecois experience, and try to understand their/your point of view. Unfortunately, my opinion about the situation has become less positive than before I started reading this thread.

Your original opinion was probably too optimistic then. As Acajack says, you'll find an unvarnished point of view in this thread. Many of us would be fine with staying in Canada, if Canada doesn't prove too incompatible with us (see ToxiK's post about him being actually a federalist).

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Nashe

I wonder if Prince William ever gets any flak over branding. I would think an Englishman would want to distance himself from any perceived links to that Norman William the Conqueror guy. I mean... it was only 1000 years ago. Too soon for some Anglo-Saxons, I'd wager.

It's always interesting to realize that us Quebecois have been on our ceded-and-now-ancestral homeland for about half the time that the British Royal Family has been at home in Britain (400+ years vs ~950 years).

Do the Welsh actually consider Prince William a recent immigrant?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Nashe

I wonder if Prince William ever gets any flak over branding. I would think an Englishman would want to distance himself from any perceived links to that Norman William the Conqueror guy. I mean... it was only 1000 years ago. Too soon for some Anglo-Saxons, I'd wager.

I would be more concerned about being associated with Prince William, the Duke of Cumberland (victor of the Battle of Culloden).

The English were so pleased with his victory over the Scots they named a flower after him (Sweet William). The Scots on the other hand decided on a different name for this flower - Stinkin' Willie.

[vanatox]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The name Universite de Moncton implies that it is the university for Moncton, meaning all Monctonians. This however is not the case. Only 1/3rd of Monctonians are francophone. 2/3rds of the population of the city are precluded from attending its namesake institution.

The Universite de Moncton is most definitely not Moncton's university.

Being francophone or anglophone is certainly no something that prevent you from learning the other language. Anglophone are not precluded from attending the university. Many francophones study at McGill and Concordia, often to improve their English. I would see this has an opportunity for anglophones in Moncton to improve their language skills.

Always talking about anglophones in Quebec but when it comes to francophones in your province and city, you just show your prejudices constantly. Today they do not deserve to have an university named after the city... wow.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

It's always interesting to realize that us Quebecois have been on our ceded-and-now-ancestral homeland for about half the time that the British Royal Family has been at home in Britain (400+ years vs ~950 years).

Do the Welsh actually consider Prince William a recent immigrant?

The new world vs the old world debate is often caught up in comparisons that make it seem like European locales were all founded 5000 years ago and that everywhere on this side of the pond came into being in 1922 or something.

Of course many places in Europe are a lot older than any place here, but there a lot of cities and towns in Northern Europe in particular were only founded and settled well into the 1000s.

I some cases they're not really significantly older than the oldest places in Canada.

And on the timeline starting from when homo sapiens first emerged (maybe 50,000 years ago), "civilization" is a fairly recent thing, maybe representing very roughly the most recent 10% of our existence as a species.

Can someone from Amsterdam really say that Quebec City is a mere young pup compared to their hometown?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by vanatox

Always talking about anglophones in Quebec but when it comes to francophones in your province and city, you just show your prejudices constantly. Today they do not deserve to have an university named after the city... wow.

I have absolutely no problem with there being a francophone university in Moncton, and a comprehensive one too (similar to UNB in Fredericton). There are 250,000 Acadians in NB and they deserve their own university system (there are three UdeM campuses).

The issue is the name misrepresents the situation on the ground. It is not Moncton's university since the majority of Monctonians are anglophone and not francophone.

How would you feel if the only university in Montreal was an anglophone one, and it was called the University of Montreal??? Is that representative and inclusive???

[vanatox]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I have absolutely no problem with there being a francophone university in Moncton, and a comprehensive one too (similar to UNB in Fredericton). There are 250,000 Acadians in NB and they deserve their own university system (there are three UdeM campuses).

The issue is the name misrepresents the situation on the ground. It is not Moncton's university since the majority of Monctonians are anglophone and not francophone.

How would you feel if the only university in Montreal was an anglophone one, and it was called the University of Montreal??? Is that representative and inclusive???

It is just interesting that francophones in Moncton in your view are less Monctonians that anglophones. Doesn't work really with everything you constantly talk about regarding Quebec.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by vanatox

It is just interesting that francophones in Moncton in your view are less Monctonians that anglophones. Doesn't work really with everything you constantly talk about regarding Quebec.

Francophone Acadians in Moncton are most definitely Monctonians, and I didn't say otherwise. You are putting words in my mouth.

My point is the name Universite de Moncton is exclusive of the anglophone majority in the city, is misrepresentative, and gives the impression that Moncton is a primarily francophone city. It is appropriative. Again, it would be like calling the sole university in Montreal the "University of Montreal". It would be ignoring the French fact in the city, and would be dismissive, elitist and unfair.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

Your original opinion was probably too optimistic then. As Acajack says, you'll find an unvarnished point of view in this thread. Many of us would be fine with staying in Canada, if Canada doesn't prove too incompatible with us (see ToxiK's post about him being actually a federalist).

I am wondering if all the "all provinces are equally different from one another" and "Quebec isn't really different from the ROC, it's just your regular Canada with a different code to communicate" dismissals over the years may have subliminally convinced even many smart, thoughtful Canadians that Québécois actually can't have wildly divergent views from theirs on a whole bunch of topics.

Which explains why some people are shocked when they encounter them.

I've mentioned before on here (even though no one seems to have paid attention) that even as a francophone hors-Québec (FHQ) who could easily "fit in", a number of things took some getting used to when I moved to Quebec. It was even harder for my wife (also an FHQ) and for a number of years she really wanted to move back to the ROC because of it.

[vanatox]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Francophone Acadians in Moncton are most definitely Monctonians, and I didn't say otherwise. You are putting words in my mouth.

My point is the name Universite de Moncton is exclusive of the anglophone majority in the city, is misrepresentative, and gives the impression that Moncton is a primarily francophone city. It is appropriative. Again, it would be like calling the sole university in Montreal the University of Montreal. It would be ignoring the French fact in the city, and would be dismissive, elitist and unfair.

Maybe you should take a few minutes to think about what you write on this forum and your own opinions about francophones in your province and city and then think about everything you write about Quebec and the relationships between anglophones and francophones... might be a good idea!

Everyone has bias but sometime it is good to be conscious of its own.