YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[nname]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

I was wondering when the day would come that AC would be flying to Boston, New York, Washington and Miami from Vancouver.
Now I can see Orlando and Philadelphia on the agenda.
Also a Texas trifecta of Dallas, Houston and Austin (just need Dallas back)
Plus a San Jose return and that would complete my list.
Really not too many boxes left to tick.

Maybe getting DTW back on DL/WS? And maybe FLL on WS?

WS (link) applied for GEG last year, but didn't start the service. And there are rumors on FAT, but nothing concrete yet.

Updated list:

✅ Los Angeles, California		809,828
✅ San Francisco/Oakland, California	493,228
✅ Hawaii, Hawaii			425,169
✅ Las Vegas, Nevada			352,479
✅ New York, New York			262,318
✅ Phoenix, Arizona			189,097
✅ Palm Springs, California		153,017
✅ Chicago, Illinois			130,087
✅ San Diego, California		123,260
✅ Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas		 91,316
✅ Denver, Colorado			 90,354
☑️ Orlando, Florida			 87,307
☑️ Boston, Massachusetts		 86,183
☑️ Washington/Baltimore, DC		 85,630
✅ Portland, Oregon			 81,370
✅ Seattle/Tacoma, Washington		 74,190
✅ Houston, Texas			 65,642
☑️ Atlanta, Georgia			 52,070
✅ Minneapolis-St. Paul, Minnesota	 49,560
✅ Sacramento, California		 49,560
✅ Miami, Florida			 48,394
❌ Fort Lauderdale, Florida		 48,059
✅ Salt Lake City, Utah			 43,730
   Philadelphia, Pennsylvania		 36,050
☑️ Austin, Texas			 32,330
❌ Detroit, Michigan			 31,810
☑️ Anchorage, Alaska			 26,830
   Tampa/St. Petersburg, Florida	 26,396
☑️ Nashville, Tennessee			 23,913
   New Orleans, Louisiana		 22,810
   Charlotte, North Carolina		 21,890
   St. Louis, Missouri			 19,050
   Raleigh-Durham, North Carolina	 18,790
   Kansas City, Missouri		 16,430
   San Antonio, Texas			 15,000
   Indianapolis, Indiana		 14,740
   Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania		 14,670
   Cleveland, Ohio			 14,240
   Reno, Nevada				 12,650
   Columbus, Ohio			 11,670
   Cincinnati, Ohio		 	 11,270
   Hartford-Springfield, Connecticut	 11,130
   Fresno, California			 10,490

✅ Year-round, ☑️ Seasonal/Limited, ❌ Previously operated (2019)

I'll keeping Orlando as blue check until the service is increased to at least 2x weekly year-round...

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by nname

Maybe getting DTW back on DL/WS? And maybe FLL on WS?

WS (link) applied for GEG last year, but didn't start the service. And there are rumors on FAT, but nothing concrete yet.

Sorry I meant Air Canada only.

But I’m confident as recovery continues DL will return to DTW, JFK, ATL and possibly LAX (the latter two with or without Westjet on the routes) SEA reigns supreme for DL at YVR for the time being with seven daily E75s - they cover a vast majority of YVR’s transborder needs. MSP and SLC really supplementary with MSP really making up the gap for the smaller markets not reached from SEA. All in all DL well connected from YVR.

YVR’s Westjet transborder ops this summer will still be approx 50% of YYC’s - still a significant amount of capacity they will have at YVR. And third busiest transborder carrier after AC and UA.
Whereas YYC’s AC transborder ops have been destroyed (only approx 5% of YVR’s schedule)

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Sorry I meant Air Canada only.

But I’m confident as recovery continues DL will return to DTW, JFK, ATL and possibly LAX (the latter two with or without Westjet on the routes) SEA reigns supreme for DL at YVR for the time being with seven daily E75s - they cover a vast majority of YVR’s transborder needs. MSP and SLC really supplementary with MSP really making up the gap for the smaller markets not reached from SEA. All in all DL well connected from YVR.

YVR’s Westjet transborder ops this summer will still be approx 50% of YYC’s - still a significant amount of capacity they will have at YVR. And third busiest transborder carrier after AC and UA.
Whereas YYC’s AC transborder ops have been destroyed (only approx 5% of YVR’s schedule)

With WS sort of taking over ATL with the same frequencies and timings I’d highly doubt DL would return on that route, same with YEG-MSP/SEA and YXE-MSP

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by nname

Maybe getting DTW back on DL/WS? And maybe FLL on WS?

WS (link) applied for GEG last year, but didn't start the service. And there are rumors on FAT, but nothing concrete yet.

Updated list:

✅ Los Angeles, California		809,828
✅ San Francisco/Oakland, California	493,228
✅ Hawaii, Hawaii			425,169
✅ Las Vegas, Nevada			352,479
✅ New York, New York			262,318
✅ Phoenix, Arizona			189,097
✅ Palm Springs, California		153,017
✅ Chicago, Illinois			130,087
✅ San Diego, California		123,260
✅ Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas		 91,316
✅ Denver, Colorado			 90,354
☑️ Orlando, Florida			 87,307
☑️ Boston, Massachusetts		 86,183
☑️ Washington/Baltimore, DC		 85,630
✅ Portland, Oregon			 81,370
✅ Seattle/Tacoma, Washington		 74,190
✅ Houston, Texas			 65,642
☑️ Atlanta, Georgia			 52,070
✅ Minneapolis-St. Paul, Minnesota	 49,560
✅ Sacramento, California		 49,560
✅ Miami, Florida			 48,394
❌ Fort Lauderdale, Florida		 48,059
✅ Salt Lake City, Utah			 43,730
   Philadelphia, Pennsylvania		 36,050
☑️ Austin, Texas			 32,330
❌ Detroit, Michigan			 31,810
☑️ Anchorage, Alaska			 26,830
   Tampa/St. Petersburg, Florida	 26,396
☑️ Nashville, Tennessee			 23,913
   New Orleans, Louisiana		 22,810
   Charlotte, North Carolina		 21,890
   St. Louis, Missouri			 19,050
   Raleigh-Durham, North Carolina	 18,790
   Kansas City, Missouri		 16,430
   San Antonio, Texas			 15,000
   Indianapolis, Indiana		 14,740
   Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania		 14,670
   Cleveland, Ohio			 14,240
   Reno, Nevada				 12,650
   Columbus, Ohio			 11,670
   Cincinnati, Ohio		 	 11,270
   Hartford-Springfield, Connecticut	 11,130
   Fresno, California			 10,490

✅ Year-round, ☑️ Seasonal/Limited, ❌ Previously operated (2019)

I'll keeping Orlando as blue check until the service is increased to at least 2x weekly year-round...

... correct me if I'm wrong, but do I not see San Jose CA anywhere on this list, or did my poor eyesight miss it? Has it not been a YVR destination for a goodly number of years?

[nname]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

... correct me if I'm wrong, but do I not see San Jose CA anywhere on this list, or did my poor eyesight miss it? Has it not been a YVR destination for a goodly number of years?

It's counted together with San Francisco

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by nname

It's counted together with San Francisco

Thank you for that clarification.

[ninjakafi_81]

It was nice having you around SQ

Singapore Airlines Axes Vancouver Flights, Exits Canada

Singapore Airlines cuts Singapore to Vancouver route
Currently Singapore Airlines’ only flight to Canada is a nonstop flight from Singapore (SIN) to Vancouver (YVR), which is operated 3x weekly with an Airbus A350-900. Unfortunately for those in Canada, this route will soon be cut. As noted by Mainly Miles, Singapore Airlines has revealed that it will be suspending flights to Vancouver as of October 2023, as it “adjusts its capacity in response to demand.”

Singapore Airlines has long struggled with profitably operating flights to Canada:

Until 2009, Singapore Airlines operated a route from Singapore to Seoul to Vancouver; once that route was ended, Singapore Airlines didn’t fly to Canada for over a decade
In 2021, Singapore Airlines returned to Canada by adding a stop to its existing Singapore to Seattle route, as the airline operated on select days from Singapore to Vancouver to Seattle to Vancouver to Singapore
In 2022, Singapore Airlines gave Vancouver its own service, with a simple Singapore to Vancouver roundtrip
It’s anyone’s guess if Singapore Airlines tries to return to Canada again at some point in the future. Following the current pattern, maybe we’ll see the airline try this service again in the mid-2030s.

https://onemileatatime.com/news/singapore-airlines-axes-vancouver-flights/

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by ninjakafi_81

It was nice having you around SQ

Singapore Airlines Axes Vancouver Flights, Exits Canada

https://onemileatatime.com/news/singapore-airlines-axes-vancouver-flights/

I never understood why so many posters wanted them back or thought that route would be a great success.

[nname]

Perhaps the codeshare didn't work out in the end. It is still not opened for reservation despite it being in schedule for over a month now.

Let's see if AC will open YVR-SIN in response to this. AC had been looking at this route for a long time...

[Alexcaban]

Originally Posted by nname

Perhaps the codeshare didn't work out in the end. It is still not opened for reservation despite it being in schedule for over a month now.

Let's see if AC will open YVR-SIN in response to this. AC had been looking at this route for a long time...

Very slim chance until the 321XLRs arrive.

Its a long route to make work, look at YVR-MEL.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by nname

Perhaps the codeshare didn't work out in the end. It is still not opened for reservation despite it being in schedule for over a month now.

Let's see if AC will open YVR-SIN in response to this. AC had been looking at this route for a long time...

In era of scarce crew, I'm sure they can find a better place to deploy their resources. There are nowhere near the number of Singaporean ex-pats as from elsewhere in Asia and business connections pale next those with HK. It's also not a place that would be high on Canadians' destination tourism list.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by ninjakafi_81

It was nice having you around SQ

Singapore Airlines Axes Vancouver Flights, Exits Canada



https://onemileatatime.com/news/singapore-airlines-axes-vancouver-flights/

Originally Posted by whatnext

I never understood why so many posters wanted them back or thought that route would be a great success.

I think that a large percentage of wanting it was having Singapore as a "prestige" destination (for whatever reason) and SQ as a "prestige" airline.
Apparently, Singapore is overtaking HK as a major business centre, so perhaps, if it pays off, AC will try a route there. I hope so, anyway.

[nname]

Originally Posted by Alexcaban

Very slim chance until the 321XLRs arrive.

Its a long route to make work, look at YVR-MEL.

Winter seasonal will always work. AC is never short of plane and crew during winter.

AC will have to find something to rotate with AKL and BKK this winter anyways. Last year was BNE, but that's likely going daily this winter. Before the pandemic, AKL/MEL/DEL rotates with 4-6 planes, with TPE fills the gap on the off-days.

I was thinking of AKL/BKK/DEL rotate this winter, but doesn't looks like AC will be able to operate DEL any time soon...

[nname]

So with the AC schedule update, looks like they are preparing to keep the current schedule to China and India the same until at least April 2024.

[ninjakafi_81]

Originally Posted by nname

Winter seasonal will always work. AC is never short of plane and crew during winter.

AC will have to find something to rotate with AKL and BKK this winter anyways. Last year was BNE, but that's likely going daily this winter. Before the pandemic, AKL/MEL/DEL rotates with 4-6 planes, with TPE fills the gap on the off-days.

I was thinking of AKL/BKK/DEL rotate this winter, but doesn't looks like AC will be able to operate DEL any time soon...

With the current fleet, do you think it’s possible for AC to launch YVR-SIN ? Or would they have to wait until they pick up the additional 787’s.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I never understood why so many posters wanted them back or thought that route would be a great success.

Wanting them back is normal. Why wouldn't you? SQ is a very desirable airline. Why would anyone not want them back?

As for the second part of your question, there I agree.

Originally Posted by nname

Perhaps the codeshare didn't work out in the end. It is still not opened for reservation despite it being in schedule for over a month now.

Let's see if AC will open YVR-SIN in response to this. AC had been looking at this route for a long time...

I think the codeshare wasn't enough to keep the route going. It's as simple as that. SQ would have seen the forward bookings for this summer, and that's with the AC codeshare. They clearly felt the aircraft could be better used on another route.

At the end of the day, let's not forget that this route was launched as a VTL flight during the height of the pandemic, when there was little to no competition from SE Asia to Canada. Those conditions aren't there anymore.

Yields on YVR-SIN simply weren't there, at least not compared to other routes. It's as simple as that.

Originally Posted by nname

Winter seasonal will always work. AC is never short of plane and crew during winter.

AC will have to find something to rotate with AKL and BKK this winter anyways. Last year was BNE, but that's likely going daily this winter. Before the pandemic, AKL/MEL/DEL rotates with 4-6 planes, with TPE fills the gap on the off-days.

I was thinking of AKL/BKK/DEL rotate this winter, but doesn't looks like AC will be able to operate DEL any time soon...

You're assuming BKK will return next winter. I wouldn't be so sure. We don't know how they did on the route yet. I was kind of hoping they mention something about the performance of the route in their Q4 discussion/analysis from last week, but they didn't. They just mentioned the start of the route and the fact that it's there to balance seasonality, but didn't speak about the performance of the route. And it's by no means a sure bet to remain. With the detour around Russia, it's a very long flight, almost as long as YVR-SIN (only a 55 min difference), and yields to Thailand are garbage in general. Now add in US and Chinese airlines resuming their Asia-US ops, and YVR-BKK is by no means a sure bet.

Also, AC clearly won't restart YVR-DEL anytime soon. I'm not too convinced they want to jump into SIN either (besides, SIN should be served year round, not winter seasonal). So that only leaves YVR-MEL as a possible restart next winter in my book. AC is seeing good performance to Australia (that was specifically mentioned in their Q4 analysis), so YVR-MEL might be coming back.

[nname]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

I think the codeshare wasn't enough to keep the route going. It's as simple as that. SQ would have seen the forward bookings for this summer, and that's with the AC codeshare. They clearly felt the aircraft could be better used on another route.

You still cannot book SIN-YVR-🞵🞵🞵 through SQ, and YVR-SIN or 🞵🞵🞵-YVR-SIN through AC, so the codeshare aren't really working... If you want to fly SIN-YYC with SQ, they'll still route you through SEA. Something must've happened after they loaded the codeshare in the schedule.

From the start, I always feel SQ to YVR is just temporary during the pandemic. For almost 2 years, they never bother to put YVR on their global destination map, and never bother to write the destination guide for YVR (both of these would cost them almost nothing). And of course, never bothered to set up feed at the YVR end. That just show how much they're committed to the market.

Is it just me, or it seems like AC had recently discontinued a lot of long-haul codeshares that are not part of a JV. For instance, YVR-HND on NH and YVR-AKL on NZ are no longer bookable through AC. And looks like AC may also want to discontinue codeshare on YVR-TPE with BR from mid-August...

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by Alexcaban

Very slim chance until the 321XLRs arrive.

What do you mean by 321XLR here? There is no way for such a long route to be possible without a wide-body plane?

[Alexcaban]

Originally Posted by Klazu

What do you mean by 321XLR here? There is no way for such a long route to be possible without a wide-body plane?

A 321XLR taking over a 787 route at YUL/YYZ would free up the frame to be able to do YVR-SIN.

[hollywoodnorth]

Originally Posted by Klazu

What do you mean by 321XLR here? There is no way for such a long route to be possible without a wide-body plane?

"In January 2019, Air Canada expressed interest in using narrow-body aircraft for transatlantic routes and was considering options including the A321XLR and the Boeing 737 MAX."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airbu...satlantic-narrowbody-needs-idUSKCN1P82FT