VIA Rail

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Urban_Sky

This is exactly the setup of the ONR (a provincially regulated railroad operating within Ontario only) and its subsidiary, the Nipissing Central Railway (a federally regulated railroad operating into Quebec), which interline at 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵…

If that were the case then there wouldn’t be references to Ontario Northland all over the federal government, including areas such as labour relations (which are provincial jurisdiction unless federally regulated).

[Airboy]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Who owns the track between Calgary and Edmonton? If it is a short line regulated by the province Alberta might have a say. If it is CN or CP then Alberta has no jurisdiction.

A moot point anyway, Via has no interest in that route.

I believe even short lines are under federal regulation. During park upgrades at Ft Edmonton we had to follow Transport Canada regulations for Passenger Rail service. For crossing the parks tracks.

But rail service was given a sweet deal at Confederation. They have a lot of leeway on land.

The highway right of way could accommodate a HS line between Cal and Edm. The line could run along either the on 2a ROF or the QE2. Kinda like happens in parts of Europe

[Urban_Sky]

Originally Posted by acottawa

If that were the case then there wouldn’t be references to Ontario Northland all over the federal government, including areas such as labour relations (which are provincial jurisdiction unless federally regulated).

Then you shouldn’t have any difficulty locating Ontario Northland on this list of the 34 federally regulated railroads recognized as such by the Canadian Transportation Agency:
https://forms.cta-otc.gc.ca/en/federal-railway-companies

[Urban_Sky]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

I did a quick google map of a future when air travel and personal car travel is insanely expensive and the Rail has made a major comeback

HSR from Winnipeg to Calgary with stops in Brandon, Regina, Switft Current and Medicine Hat

HSR from Calgary to Edmonton

HSR from Regina to Saskatoon

HSR from Winnipeg to Dauphin (or go south of RMNP and stop at Yorkton instead) to Saskatoon to Llyodminster to Edmonton.

Then you could also put in HFR from regions north and south of the main HSR routes to route people to the stops to pick up HSR.

Many of the ROW from the heyday of the Rail construction still more or less exist. Nothing that money and initiative couldn't solve right?

I hate to break this to you, but there is no country on this planet which would bother even with studying a HSR line to connect two small cities like Regina&Saskatoon or a middle-sized city with virtually no hinterland population like Winnipeg. The best such cities could hope for (unless they were located on a very busy rail corridor) is electrification.

The only Canadian corridor outside Quebec-Windsor which has a remote chance of receiving HSR within our lifetime is Calgary-Edmonton, and even there the ridership potential is one order of magnitude smaller than Toronto-Montreal, whereas that for Regina-Saskatoon is another order of magnitude smaller than Calgary-Edmonton, as we’ve already discussed over at Urban Toronto:

[Nouvellecosse]

I don't understand why news about the VIA HFR project should result in dozens of posts about Calgary-Edmonton rail which has absolutely nothing to do it. There's nothing wrong with talking about rail in other parts of the country but there's no reason for news about one region to be drowned out by discussion of another when the other region doesn't even have any recent news to discuss.

[Truenorth00]

In a country where we can't build HSR between the two largest cities and the national capital with a combined catchment population of at least a third of the country (with those metros and their surroundings,) discussion of HSR between just about anything else is moot. Saskatchewan isn't even willing to keep public bus service across their province. HSR is an insane leap of vision in that circumstance.

Maybe things will change if Ontario and Quebec have HSR. But so far, while public transport in Canada is marginally better than the US, it's still a very long way from the type of support needed to build HSR between two cities of less than 350k. Also, the dynamics of our country are such that voters in other parts of the country would sooner see HSR between Toronto and Montreal get cancelled, than get their own improved rail service. We're about to see how Canadians really think about rail investments in the coming HFR RFQ and RFP. Let's see if politicians can really avoid the temptation to make it a political pinata.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Airboy

I believe even short lines are under federal regulation. During park upgrades at Ft Edmonton we had to follow Transport Canada regulations for Passenger Rail service. For crossing the parks tracks.

But rail service was given a sweet deal at Confederation. They have a lot of leeway on land.

The highway right of way could accommodate a HS line between Cal and Edm. The line could run along either the on 2a ROF or the QE2. Kinda like happens in parts of Europe

The provinces don't have massive teams regulating these railways. It would not be unusual for the provincial regulator to adopt the federal specific rules. They call this harmonised regulations.

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/trans...tion-acts-regulations/railway-safety-act

In BC is is "Technical Safety BC" that is responsible for issuing permits and inspecting provincially regulated railways. This is the same agency that handles pressure vessels and elevators. In BC a lot of the provincially regulated railways will be small branches owned by mining companies or forest product companies so they shunt cars around in their yard and put them on a siding for one of the bigger railways to come pick up the load.

Probably similar in other provinces.

Canada has a "complex" system when it comes to a lot of safety rules that at the end of the day actually works despite our constitution. As an example, CSA and standards council write the Canadian Electrical Code. However it on its own has no legal standing. Each province then passes a 2-3 page act every few years that say "The province adopts this version of the electrical code with these minor exemptions". At the federal level regulators like the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission will do the same for nuclear facilities and so on. At the end of the day everyone is following almost the same rules with some limited exemptions.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

I don't understand why news about the VIA HFR project should result in dozens of posts about Calgary-Edmonton rail which has absolutely nothing to do it. There's nothing wrong with talking about rail in other parts of the country but there's no reason for news about one region to be drowned out by discussion of another when the other region doesn't even have any recent news to discuss.

There may be a case for Calgary-Edmonton regular rail using existing tracks and infastrcture. Perhaps. But not high speed rail.

The only other area where HFR or High Speed Rail would remotely make sense is Vancouver to Seattle. Currently under study. That is a route Via code-shares on and interlines with. That is also a route where most of the cost would be covered by the US and Canada cost would fairly minor. Unlike Alberta or Saskatchewan it is also a route where the provincial government is supportive.

The current problem with that route on the Canadian side is a rail bridge across the Fraser that is owned by the federal government, operated by CN and is at capacity.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by Urban_Sky

I hate to break this to you, but there is no country on this planet which would bother even with studying a HSR line to connect two small cities like Regina, Saskatoon, or Winnipeg

Did you not see the winking emoji.

Jesus, people need to chill around here.

[Urban_Sky]

Originally Posted by casper

The only other area where HFR or High Speed Rail would remotely make sense is Vancouver to Seattle. Currently under study. That is a route Via code-shares on and interlines with. That is also a route where most of the cost would be covered by the US and Canada cost would fairly minor. Unlike Alberta or Saskatchewan it is also a route where the provincial government is supportive.

Beyond hosting Amtrak’s trains at Pacific Station and servicing them at its VMC, I don’t recall VIA having any involvement in this service, which is very unlike the Maple Leaf, which is indeed operated as a VIA train on this side of the border…

[Urban_Sky]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

Did you not see the winking emoji.

Jesus, people need to chill around here.

Indeed I didn’t notice it, but being German, your beer emoji certainly caught my attention…!

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

Originally Posted by casper

I see 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 even has an impressive train station for such a small town.

I've got bad news. Wikipedia says it's been demolished

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika_station

The train station began demolition by Ontario Northland Railway on March 10th, 2021. On May 15th, 2021, the Train Station was completely demolished. As of June 2021 there is a historic locations plaque placed by Ontario Northland to commemorate this one of a kind train station that once stood on the grass hill that is now in its location.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Urban_Sky

Beyond hosting Amtrak’s trains at Pacific Station and servicing them at its VMC, I don’t recall VIA having any involvement in this service, which is very unlike the Maple Leaf, which is indeed operated as a VIA train on this side of the border…

Pre-COIVD VIA rail use to sell tickets on that route as well as on the Wilsons bus route from Vancouver to Victoria. They basically placed the Via rail code on both those routes. Now it does not look they offer them anymore. You also ended up getting Via rewards on it.

It was a decent setup because you could get a single ticket through VIA website all the way through and usually it was a few bucks cheaper than buying separately.

I just tried and you can't do it anymore. Someone at VIA needs to get on that and bring those interline agreements back.

[casper]

Originally Posted by ShavedParmesanCheese

I've got bad news. Wikipedia says it's been demolished

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika_station

Disappointing. From Google street view that looked to the biggest building in town.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

I did a quick google map of a future when air travel and personal car travel is insanely expensive and the Rail has made a major comeback

HSR from Winnipeg to Calgary with stops in Brandon, Regina, Switft Current and Medicine Hat

HSR from Calgary to Edmonton

HSR from Regina to Saskatoon

HSR from Winnipeg to Dauphin (or go south of RMNP and stop at Yorkton instead) to Saskatoon to Llyodminster to Edmonton.

Then you could also put in HFR from regions north and south of the main HSR routes to route people to the stops to pick up HSR.

Many of the ROW from the heyday of the Rail construction still more or less exist. Nothing that money and initiative couldn't solve right?

HSR on the Prairies between Edmonton/Calgary to Winnipeg may work, but a good test would be between the 2 biggest ones; Calgary and Edmonton. The reasons for a TOM HSR are similar to the C-E area. Hate to say it though, we are more likely to see all of the W-QC corridor done before anything outside of C-E, if at all.

Originally Posted by acottawa

If that were the case then there wouldn’t be references to Ontario Northland all over the federal government, including areas such as labour relations (which are provincial jurisdiction unless federally regulated).

IIRC There are 2 different crews for the ONR. One based out of Englehart and the other based out of the line to Quebec, possibly 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵.

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

I don't understand why news about the VIA HFR project should result in dozens of posts about Calgary-Edmonton rail which has absolutely nothing to do it. There's nothing wrong with talking about rail in other parts of the country but there's no reason for news about one region to be drowned out by discussion of another when the other region doesn't even have any recent news to discuss.

... that was my fault. It was an offhand question about if HSR between TOM is built and the rest of the Corridor is built in phases at what point the C-E corridor would see HSR as outside of the TOM, it is the next best part.
Come on...if something is discussed that is not within the tiny existing box that is Via, it is usually my fault.

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

In a country where we can't build HSR between the two largest cities and the national capital with a combined catchment population of at least a third of the country (with those metros and their surroundings,) discussion of HSR between just about anything else is moot. Saskatchewan isn't even willing to keep public bus service across their province. HSR is an insane leap of vision in that circumstance.

Maybe things will change if Ontario and Quebec have HSR. But so far, while public transport in Canada is marginally better than the US, it's still a very long way from the type of support needed to build HSR between two cities of less than 350k. Also, the dynamics of our country are such that voters in other parts of the country would sooner see HSR between Toronto and Montreal get cancelled, than get their own improved rail service. We're about to see how Canadians really think about rail investments in the coming HFR RFQ and RFP. Let's see if politicians can really avoid the temptation to make it a political pinata.

One hopes that the Astom proposal is a pinata that the politicians of the day like and want to crack open. We shall see what happens.

[Truenorth00]

Nice visualization to help make it obvious where passenger rail investment should go:



Source: https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/population-density-patterns-countries/

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Nice visualization to help make it obvious where passenger rail investment should go:



Source: https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/population-density-patterns-countries/

Agreed.
Looking at that, there is a lot of places Via does not go at all.

When you say "passenger rail investment" do you mean regular trains, or HSR?

[Nouvellecosse]

Thunder Bay looks so isolated!

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Thunder Bay looks so isolated!

at ~600km to Winnipeg, and more to anywhere else as big, it is.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

When you say "passenger rail investment" do you mean regular trains, or HSR?

Any intercity passenger rail investment. What Urban Sky says about CalEd having a tenth of the revenue of Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal becomes much more obvious when you look at a density map like this. It's pretty obvious that there's really only two major population corridor that really warrants substantial rail investment. Quebec-Windsor and CalEd.