DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by mhays

Pass state policies with these principles and include every city over a certain size so places aren't just enclaves of the rich not doing their share.

This is how it works in my area, where every city accepts significant growth, some are going above the requirements and planning for massive gains in their 20-year plans, and the question is how much more the state will liberalize the rules this year.

This is hard here; likely requires a state constitutional change, which has a pretty high bar to pass.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by laniroj

Having done a bit of this in the past what I will say is this, and it's simply my experience not necessarily fact. I think the general sentiment of the development community regarding lobbyists and active code/process/law changes is that most developers are hesitant to join such efforts because they are afraid to bite the hand that feeds them. Ultimately, projects are complicated and require negotiation and compromise on the part of jurisdictions and private entities, despite Denver and many city's best efforts to make a rule for everything in zoning codes or comprehensive plans or design guidelines. That fear largely means most developers might give some nominal amount of money ($500) to a Mayoral or Council candidate and support a local community cause or two here or there for the district a project of theirs is in, but that's about where it ends (I know, what about the bribes, collusion, and all these other conspiracy theories?!). Especially when it comes to big projects, developers are very cautious with optics, politics, etc.

When politicians get an idea in their head, good luck trying to stop them.

One way to move the needle would be to have more people who actually develop sitting on the boards and committees which shape development policy. All too often, those things are filled with special interest groups and a token 'developer'. As a result, lots of stuff those committees pass which lead to 'reforms' negatively affects the development process, cost, etc. to serve a special interest/need. That's not necessarily bad taken one thing at a time, but over time it becomes a complex beast that nobody can even follow. That said, I agree that the development community doesn't participate nearly enough in those sorts of efforts and that's their own durn fault.

^Case in point, the City passes a transportation demand management plan requirement, so you go through the plan and determine the best fit for your project and submit said plan
Gubment responds: plan isn't adequate you need to provide monthly transportation passes for all units
Developer: Can't do it, that will add 5-7% to the rent we need to achieve to make the project work and those are not achievable rents. How about we provide it to 10% of all units to match up with public transportation participation nationwide?
Gubment: (2 months and 1% cost inflation later) No, it must be all units
Developer: Ok, the project is dead
Gubment (3 months and 3% cost inflation later): Ok, do the 10%
Developer: Great, but the project now has a 3% cost gap so we can only do 5% of units or we can just follow the original transportation demand management plan we submitted
Gubment: (2 months and 1% cost inflation later plus 10% increase in water/tap fees because it's a new year) ok please resubmit the original transportation demand management plan, that will work.

Simple stuff like this routinely progresses in the above fashion and this is but one example of a vast network of regulation all residential development (except single family homes) have to navigate. The process itself is probably close to 10% of total project cost when you factor in delays, administration, inflation, etc.

Ultimately, I've just reduced my thinking to 'this problem will solve itself when less old people vote and attend public meetings'. TakeFive will hate me for that stance, but it really is a thing. I see no way way of moving the public opinion needle short of different age demographics and I'm starting to think this generational shift might not even work (but I still have hope that will happen).

Hilarious. So what you're really saying is... it's all Fauci's fault? We had a once in a generation opportunity to rid ourselves of the scourge of public meetings, and through a toxic combination of masking, social distancing, and vaccines, we let them all live?

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Piper Sandler to the Rescue

Piper Sandler Looks Toward Investment in the Rocky Mountain Region in 2023
January 16, 2023 - Mile High CRE

Me? Totally clueless but I assume somebody has heard of these guys since they grease the wheels for new affordable housing.

Tell me more about new affordable housing?

Is there any doubt that Colorado needs more new affordable housing?

When the bankers behind developer/metropolitan district financings somehow get characterized as champions of affordable housing, I know I have entered the topsy-turvy world of wonderland, where fantasy reigns and the rules of reality disappear.

[rds70]

Originally Posted by rds70

A couple additional projects working through the review process:

9th and Broadway (AMLI) - 22 stories, 549 units, 9,000 square feet of retail, 250 feet in height:

Revised elevations for the project, which will now top out at 23 stories and 258 feet, and include 553 units:

[bunt_q]

Well that’s goddamn awful. Looks like a mediocre Marriott somewhere on the redneck riviera, where they used to send you for the sort of shitty conference that made you question everything about your life and that, thank God, zoom has driven to extinction. Just when we thought Denver was moving past the era of the land barge.

[TakeFive]

It makes more sense than you might think

Originally Posted by bunt_q

When the bankers behind developer/metropolitan district financings somehow get characterized as champions of affordable housing, I know I have entered the topsy-turvy world of wonderland, where fantasy reigns and the rules of reality disappear.

Think back to the Great Recession. For many years there was scarcely any new entry-level housing being built. Millennials wanted to live downtown and they couldn't get loans anyway as bankers had gotten cranky.

Fast forward to today and the game has changed. There's now a healthy demand for entry-level or modest housing that people are ready to buy. If you think about the development out near DIA there's now a lot of hard working people that qualify to buy at an affordable level.

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Well that’s goddamn awful. Looks like a mediocre Marriott somewhere on the redneck riviera, where they used to send you for the sort of shitty conference that made you question everything about your life and that, thank God, zoom has driven to extinction. Just when we thought Denver was moving past the era of the land barge.

Everybody screaming about getting more density. There it is!

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

It makes more sense than you might think

Think back to the Great Recession. For many years there was scarcely any new entry-level housing being built. Millennials wanted to live downtown and they couldn't get loans anyway as bankers had gotten cranky.

Fast forward to today and the game has changed. There's now a healthy demand for entry-level or modest housing that people are ready to buy. If you think about the development out near DIA there's now a lot of hard working people that qualify to buy at an affordable level.

I think those things are not related to what these folks do.

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Everybody screaming about getting more density. There it is!

No no no. That is exactly the problem. There is no rule that says density has to be awful looking.

I would love for some architecture/planning class to take this exact project and make it their semester project. Let's get the cost estimate and proforma from the developer. And then let's have 6 different groups re-design this in a not awful way - using real costs - to prove it could be done. (The interesting thing would be if you untether them from zoning constraints - or say, you can use restrictions from any zone district - don't view that as a constraint, assume City Council would make reasonable changes for better design, to also see what that would produce.) I bet you anything, even without that, though, there are 6 ways to do this better without messing up the economics.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

I think those things are not related to what these folks do.

They don't enable new housing development? Then what do they do?

Originally Posted by laniroj

Ultimately, I've just reduced my thinking to 'this problem will solve itself when less old people vote and attend public meetings'.

I wouldn't say it's a non-issue; what I'd say is it's lazy thinking. For example, suggesting too many seniors vote is an odd assertion. Perhaps it would be better to suggest that getting more younger people to vote is important. Just because Seniors are more likely to show up at meetings doesn't mean they rule the roost. Each Senior person has only one vote.

It's important to understand the maturation process. Young adults are all about change. As they move into their 30's attitudes start to change. Getting married is another attitude changer but the biggest life event that changes how people see the world is having a family. For anyone who has owned property in a given neighborhood for (say) five years or longer will naturally become more invested in where they live. When people get into their 40's they are very much about stability and in their 50's security becomes much more of an issue - think lack of crime.

I once suggested that West Wash Park would be a good area for upzoning. I later learned there's a lot of Mama Bears that live there that are very protective of their 'hood. We're talking about the volleyball playing crowd and not Seniors. They see West Wash Park as a relatively affordable place to live and be close to the park.

When they created the East Area Plan the main issue seemed to be "gentrification" which is not a Senior issue.

You can't seriously believe that only Seniors are NIMBY's?

The Governor did offer one solid idea that would help your case. https://www.9news.com/article/news/local.../73-3d775c7f-bd28-4924-b5f6-f7c98961e9d0

“We should also make the senior homestead tax exemption portable,” Polis added. “Our seniors should be able to downsize without having to pay higher property taxes, freeing up their larger old homes for younger, growing families.”

BTW, it looks like other than enhancing the Red Flag laws the Dem legislature has little interest in tackling crime. Could be the opening that Republican conservatives need to become relevant again.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

...You can't seriously believe that only Seniors are NIMBY's?...

My personal lived experience is that nearly100% of people showing up at Council hearings, community meetings, project meetings are of an older age within earshot of taking social security. Do I believe only senior are NIMBY's? Absolutely not. Do I believe only seniors are showing up, screaming loud, and shouting down development at the various levels of meetings? Yes, pretty much though there are a small number of non seniors partaking in the escapades.

To your point though, young people are generally not engaged. The 20-somethings are seemingly uninterested or unaware how things actually work, 30-somethings have young kids and are short on time, the 40 and 50 somethings are seemingly apathetic, and then there's the seniors.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

I would love for some architecture/planning class to take this exact project and make it their semester project. Let's get the cost estimate and proforma from the developer. And then let's have 6 different groups re-design this in a not awful way - using real costs - to prove it could be done. (The interesting thing would be if you untether them from zoning constraints - or say, you can use restrictions from any zone district - don't view that as a constraint, assume City Council would make reasonable changes for better design, to also see what that would produce.) I bet you anything, even without that, though, there are 6 ways to do this better without messing up the economics.

Aren't you forgetting the lender requirements and what proposals will pass due diligence? Throw in that gateway and truly crush the students' dream of what they will accomplish in their careers.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

BTW, it looks like other than enhancing the Red Flag laws the Dem legislature has little interest in tackling crime. Could be the opening that Republican conservatives need to become relevant again.

That requires creating policy and being rational beyond catering to the base. The Republican bench is still focused on banning CRT and making sure furries don't have litter buckets in schools.

[TakeFive]

Amen

Originally Posted by wong21fr

That requires creating policy and being rational beyond catering to the base. The Republican bench is still focused on banning CRT and making sure furries don't have litter buckets in schools.

But I wasn't thinking of The Clan from El Paso County; they don't worry so much about crime down there as they always have their guns at their ready.

I see Polis bragging he won his reelection by nearly 20%; that's the same percentage that DeSantis won by in Florida and it wasn't that long that my favorite President turned the state blue. Well, 2008 is awhile ago I guess. It's also the year Colorado became a blue state.

With respect to CRT it was one of the primary reasons how Virginia went from a healthy Biden win to a Blue defeat for Governor in less than a year.

Originally Posted by laniroj

My personal lived experience is that nearly100% of people showing up at Council hearings, community meetings, project meetings are of an older age within earshot of taking social security. Do I believe only senior are NIMBY's? Absolutely not. Do I believe only seniors are showing up, screaming loud, and shouting down development at the various levels of meetings? Yes, pretty much though there are a small number of non seniors partaking in the escapades.

It's hard for me to imagine the fun of dealing with such highly rational individuals. Still we're talking about those that show up being maybe one-tenth of one percent of the residents ?

Upon further reflection, Let's say Denver decided to push for city-wide four-plex zoning.

There's a number of Seniors who live in neighborhoods like Mayfair and Virginia Vale/Village where their house is likely F&C and it's their affordable housing. It may be the largest asset they have to leave to their children. Why should they care about new zoning if it raised the value of their home by say 15% (or more)?

[coolmandan03]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

No no no. That is exactly the problem. There is no rule that says density has to be awful looking.

So you want cheap, dense, housing - but you want years of review, design, and expensive structural features for each unique lot.

You know, there's efficiencies in mass production that make this affordable. And if it cost 3x per lot, you'll see less housing.

[TakeFive]

Hertz Electrifies Denver - Mayor Hancock's Parting Masterstroke


Photo by E.R. Davidson

Hertz is bringing thousands of EVs and chargers to the city of Denver in a broad new partnership
JAN 19 2023 By John Rosevear - CNBC

As part of the program, called “Hertz Electrifies,” the rental car company plans to add more than 5,000 EVs to its Denver fleet for daily customers as well as for ongoing rentals to drivers for ride-sharing services like Uber. To support those who rent the EVs, Hertz and its partner BP Pulse, the EV-charging network owned by oil giant BP, will also install public EV chargers at Denver International Airport and at sites around the city, with a focus on underserved communities.

This is interesting:

It’ll also see Denver boost availability and education around EVs in a first-of-its-kind effort. That latter point is key to the deal. In addition to building chargers in lower-income neighborhoods, Hertz will provide EVs, tools and training to the city’s technical high school — and will offer summer job opportunities through Denver’s Youth Employment Program.

Denver’s mayor, Michael Hancock, said the city’s goal is to reduce its carbon emissions 80% by 2050, and to completely electrify the city’s own buildings and fleet by the end of this decade. He told CNBC that Hertz’s plan to focus on underserved neighborhoods and to train local students to service EVs could make this deal a “game-changer” for the city.

I also read recently that many younger adults avoid the hassle of buying/owning cars and prefer to just use rideshare. Many of the newer apartments along Scottsdale Road have included valet pickup/dropoff circles or areas.

BTW, this is posted before any of the local news sources have carried the story.

[DenvertoLA]

I need a groundbreaking. What's on the cusp?

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by DenvertoLA

I need a groundbreaking. What's on the cusp?

Kenect Denver seems to be getting close.... crazy if it's the next one to break ground.

[TakeFive]

You read my mind

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Kenect Denver seems to be getting close.... crazy if it's the next one to break ground.

Courtesy Akara Partners/Shears Adkins Rockmore

Back in July of 2018 Dravitz/DenverInfill had this update:

With the second round of design review coming up next week, the project has gone through an extensive change in design including a height reduction. The proposed project now calls for a 23-story building containing 434 units along with office and retail space. There is also now a setback in height towards 22nd Street because the building will reside in two separate zoning districts; D-AS-12+ and D-AS-20+.

They closed on the land in January of 2019.

[SirLucasTheGreat]

It seems like one of those projects near 8th and Lincoln must be starting soon

[rds70]

Originally Posted by DenvertoLA

I need a groundbreaking. What's on the cusp?

Evans East has the building permit approved and ready to go.

Demolition at the Sports Castle Lofts should be starting soon.

Parq II is in the middle of building permit review.

955 Bannock has the building permit ready to go.

There are quite a few projects that could be next.

[Fritzdude]

https://hospitalitydesign.com/news/hotels-resorts/virgin-hotels-denver-fox-park/

Pretty cool hotel out by the new Fox Park.