Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion - Page 1192

aberdeen5698 · #**23821** Posted **Jan 11, 2023, 1:18 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Found this note about the Grandview Cut/BNSF

Quote:

...In addition, the City assumed ownership of and liability for maintenance and replacement of the bridges over the Grandview Cut, for which Burlington Northern compensated the City.

That's interesting. Does that mean that BNSF paid for the new bridges that were built at the same time as the Skytrain went into the cut? I know they replaced the bridges at Nanaimo St. and Lakeview Drive, and I think perhaps Woodland as well.

officedweller · #**23822** Posted **Jan 11, 2023, 1:27 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Found this note about the Grandview Cut/BNSF

https://council.vancouver.ca/previous_years/000201/a9.htm

I think the delay was about RoW for the station site over the BNSF yards, as the guideway was built and sitting idle all the way to Clark Drive or so.

Changing City · #**23823** Posted **Jan 11, 2023, 1:49 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

next time you're on the street, stand in the middle median and look at the lamp standards on both sides. you'll see they are tilted back slightly. this was done on purpose with the intent to build the street car. the weight of the overhead lines would have pulled them upright to be straight. its kind of funny looking. i wonder when those poles need to be replaced, if they'll install them straight over slightly tilted.

they really did plan to build it! but it was killed long after it was planned.

Who is 'they'? Who was going to pay for it? And who was going to run it?

As far as I understand the situation, the City Engineers have continued to ensure that a streetcar system could be built, by ensuring there's a viable right-of-way wherever new developments are built (like the W1st median), but it hasn't been 'killed', because it has never been 'alive'. City reports reference the intention for TransLink to operate the route, and there has never been any commitment from TransLink to do so. The City have never pushed the idea because getting the Broadway SkyTrain built is much more important. Council request updates from time to time, and get updated cost estimates, usually prepared by a consultant, but they don't go any further. The last person who said they wanted it built was Susanne Anton who had it in her bag of goodies to pursue if she was elected mayor. She lost.

jollyburger · #**23824** Posted **Jan 11, 2023, 3:32 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by officedweller

I think the delay was about RoW for the station site over the BNSF yards, as the guideway was built and sitting idle all the way to Clark Drive or so.

Yeah I think Wikipedia mentioned that but the article they referenced was deleted.

officedweller · #**23825** Posted **Jan 11, 2023, 4:25 AM**

Off-topic video of overhead catenary wire breaking in Ottawa due to ice storm build-up:
https://twitter.com/WTL/status/1611363912422948864?s=20&t=o0xDID3Y4lC9C1AfXFICkQ

Lots of sparks on this video:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1610850085587271680

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...-to-restore-ice-damaged-lrt-hit-new-snag

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/oc-transpo-expects-full-lrt-service-to-resume-tuesday

VancouverOfTheFuture · #**23826** Posted **Jan 11, 2023, 7:32 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by chowhou

The Squamish Nation + Westbank are pushing for it again as part of Senakw so maybe we'll see some movement this decade.

don't bet on it. as of now, TransLink has 0 interest in any streetcar. they hate the system from my understanding. the costs of it aren't worth it in their eyes (i agree). and as of now, no other city can operate a competing system against TransLink. so in other words, only TransLink could do it, and they don't want to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Changing City

Who is 'they'? Who was going to pay for it? And who was going to run it?

As far as I understand the situation, the City Engineers have continued to ensure that a streetcar system could be built, by ensuring there's a viable right-of-way wherever new developments are built (like the W1st median), but it hasn't been 'killed', because it has never been 'alive'. City reports reference the intention for TransLink to operate the route, and there has never been any commitment from TransLink to do so. The City have never pushed the idea because getting the Broadway SkyTrain built is much more important. Council request updates from time to time, and get updated cost estimates, usually prepared by a consultant, but they don't go any further. The last person who said they wanted it built was Susanne Anton who had it in her bag of goodies to pursue if she was elected mayor. She lost.

the original intention was to rebuild the Downtown Historic Railway from Granville Island - Science world. and either 1, TransLink would have been pushed to operate the line as they legally are the only ones who can. or 2, to petition the BC government to give CoV an exemption to allow them to operate the line themselves.

what was killed was the rebuilding of the Downtown Historic Railway, and all the associated infrastructure which then of course killed any other plans for the line to open.

i don't see it ever happening unless CoV operates it, and as of now they cant. i don't really see it ever happening in the future since it would be expensive; i think it is forever dead.

Migrant_Coconut · #**23827** Posted **Jan 11, 2023, 7:45 AM**

On hiatus, yeah, but it's not dead per se unless the City (and the MST) give away the ROW to something else.

dpogue · #**23828** Posted **Jan 11, 2023, 2:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

don't bet on it. as of now, TransLink has 0 interest in any streetcar. they hate the system from my understanding. the costs of it aren't worth it in their eyes (i agree). and as of now, no other city can operate a competing system against TransLink. so in other words, only TransLink could do it, and they don't want to.

Any city or company can ask TransLink for permission to operate an independent transit service in their city. Usually they just need to provide data showing that it won't interfere with TransLink operations and won't steal major ridership. Often things will get approved for an initial pilot, with a request for the operator to come back with data after the pilot for full approval.

For something like the downtown heritage railway from Main Street to Olympic Village to Granville Island, I don't see why that wouldn't get approved.

For a full streetcar line down the Arbutus corridor, there would probably be some more involved discussions.

Changing City · #**23829** Posted **Jan 11, 2023, 4:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

the original intention was to rebuild the Downtown Historic Railway from Granville Island - Science world. and either 1, TransLink would have been pushed to operate the line as they legally are the only ones who can. or 2, to petition the BC government to give CoV an exemption to allow them to operate the line themselves.

what was killed was the rebuilding of the Downtown Historic Railway, and all the associated infrastructure which then of course killed any other plans for the line to open.

i don't see it ever happening unless CoV operates it, and as of now they cant. i don't really see it ever happening in the future since it would be expensive; i think it is forever dead.

If there was ever an intention by the City to rebuild the Downtown Historic Railway, it was so far back in time that it's irrelevant. That wasn't why the Arbutus corridor was acquired, for example.

And the Downtown Historic Railway was never transit. It was a publicly subsidized tourist attraction. The fact that it no longer operates doesn't affect any potential future streetcar operation.

WarrenC12 · #**23830** Posted **Jan 11, 2023, 4:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

next time you're on the street, stand in the middle median and look at the lamp standards on both sides. you'll see they are tilted back slightly. this was done on purpose with the intent to build the street car. the weight of the overhead lines would have pulled them upright to be straight. its kind of funny looking. i wonder when those poles need to be replaced, if they'll install them straight over slightly tilted.

they really did plan to build it! but it was killed long after it was planned.

Interesting, I will do that.

It's the City half assing things again. They should have known it would be years or decades away, realistically. The space could have been set aside as it has been, but with better temporary use in the mean time.

If and when it gets built, I bet they will replace those lamps.

jollyburger · #**23831** Posted **Jan 11, 2023, 6:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Interesting, I will do that.

It's the City half assing things again. They should have known it would be years or decades away, realistically. The space could have been set aside as it has been, but with better temporary use in the mean time.

If and when it gets built, I bet they will replace those lamps.

I doubt they need to lean the light poles to support a catenary system let alone have wires that have enough tension on them to cause them to straighten them out.

officedweller · #**23832** Posted **Jan 13, 2023, 4:00 AM**

Related to the streetcar discussion -
story on the housing project near Granville Island that will be built on the former RoW having a straighter route leading to Senakw.
The plan would now be to have the streetcar take sharp turns on the street.

100 rental homes and retail proposed for parking lot near Granville Island
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/1595-west-2nd-avenue-vancouver-rental-housing

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/1595-west-2nd-avenue-vancouver-rental-housing

Migrant_Coconut · #**23833** Posted **Jan 13, 2023, 4:16 AM**

I believe that's been a thing since before the lockdown - the last open house had it taking up the whole site as well.

Not sure how a straight shot down Fir will mix with the buses. The 4, 7, et al use it to get from the Granville loop to 4th, and that could be a problem if TransLink doesn't reroute them.

officedweller · #**23834** Posted **Jan 13, 2023, 4:30 AM**

Yeah, having the tracks on street on Fir has been the City's plan for a while.

Helvetia · #**23835** Posted **Jan 13, 2023, 7:17 AM**

I heard somewhere that the area on the Canada Line where Capstan station is being built had the power rails switched to be on the far side (relative to the future passenger platforms) in preparation for the now-under-construction station. Were any measures taken during construction to facilitate future 33rd/57th Ave stations?

Express691 · #**23836** Posted **Jan 14, 2023, 2:51 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helvetia

I heard somewhere that the area on the Canada Line where Capstan station is being built had the power rails switched to be on the far side (relative to the future passenger platforms) in preparation for the now-under-construction station. Were any measures taken during construction to facilitate future 33rd/57th Ave stations?

The power rail is continuous in these areas (unlike Capstan). However I am not certain if there are any structures/other indicators built in at 33rd/57th.

madog222 · #**23837** Posted **Jan 14, 2023, 2:58 AM**

RFP is up for construction of the Scott Road R6 Rapid Bus street modifications.

http://discovery.ariba.com/rfx/15115845

Quote:

The Work comprises of the creation of bus priority measures from Scott Road Station to Newton Exchange via 72nd Avenue as part of the creation of the R6 RapidBus line.

Scope:

Image from Translink

jollyburger · #**23838** Posted **Jan 14, 2023, 5:08 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helvetia

I heard somewhere that the area on the Canada Line where Capstan station is being built had the power rails switched to be on the far side (relative to the future passenger platforms) in preparation for the now-under-construction station. Were any measures taken during construction to facilitate future 33rd/57th Ave stations?

Quote:

TransLink’s February 26, 2016, letter to the City states that the cost of an “underground infill station on the Canada Line is not known” but references a meeting with the City in 2014, at which time TransLink offered a “ballpark” construction cost estimate of $90 million;

Quote:

TransLink’s February 26, 2016, letter to the City states that, “even if the [57th Avenue] station is fully funded by a third party, the implementation timeline is expected to be no less than ten years and may be prolonged” due to significant engineering challenges that would increase the complexity of station construction;

https://council.vancouver.ca/20171128/documents/motionb3.pdf

Sheba · #**23839** Posted **Jan 14, 2023, 5:20 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by madog222

RFP is up for construction of the Scott Road R6 Rapid Bus street modifications.

http://discovery.ariba.com/rfx/15115845

I still have no idea why they insist on having a stop at 75A instead of one stop south (which would put it close to Scottsdale Exchange).

Helvetia · #**23840** Posted **Jan 14, 2023, 5:40 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Express691

The power rail is continuous in these areas (unlike Capstan). However I am not certain if there are any structures/other indicators built in at 33rd/57th.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jollyburger

https://council.vancouver.ca/20171128/documents/motionb3.pdf

Thank you both! This is more information than I was expecting to find.