Scotiabank Centre

[q12]

Attendance for the gold medal game was a new record at Scotiabank Centre last night: 10735
Source:
https://www.iihf.com/en/events/2023/wm20/gamecenter/statistics/38845/31-cze-vs-can

Highest attendance in Moncton was 8231
Source: https://www.iihf.com/en/events/2023/wm20/gamecenter/statistics/38833/19-usa-vs-fin

The Avenir Centre does not have exactly 8800 seats, it's clearly less than that and most likely in the 8500 range that is stated on their website (Source: https://www.asmglobal.com/p/our-portfolio/arenas/avenir-centre)
Scotiabank Centre held 2,504 more people than Avenir Centre at their highest attended games.

And last night that was 2,504 x $200 = $500,000 extra for the tournament.

[ericmacm]

Originally Posted by Empire

The Sask Tel Centre in Saskstoon has a capacity of 15,195 and is not exactly in the downtown bar district. The Videotron Centre in Quebec with a capacity of 18,259 is removed from the city centre as well.

The City of Saskatoon is currently planning on replacing SaskTel Centre with a new downtown arena that will most likely be located north of the Midtown Shopping Centre.

As for Quebec City, the city doesn’t really have any large and underutilized pieces of land directly downtown, so they just built Centre Videotron where Colisee Pepsi was formerly located. It’s absolutely not a great location where it is now, but it was likely the best they could do without levelling a historic area or cleaning up and redeveloping an industrial site. The second closest thing Quebec City has to a downtown with land that could have accommodated an arena is Sainte-Foy, but that is even further away from downtown.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by q12

The Avenir Centre does not have exactly 8800 seats, it's clearly less than that and most likely in the 8500 range that is stated on their website

8,500 in standard seating. 8,800 with skyboxes (which is the same rationale you used to come up with a seating capacity at the Scotiabank Centre of 11,200.

The city of Moncton calls the Avenir Centre "an 8,800 seat arena." Wikipedia also uses the 8,800 seat figure.

[q12]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

8,500 in standard seating. 8,800 with skyboxes (which is the same rationale you used to come up with a seating capacity at the Scotiabank Centre of 11,200.

The city of Moncton calls the Avenir Centre "an 8,800 seat arena." Wikipedia also uses the 8,800 seat figure.

So last night's attendance of 10,735 at Scotiabank centre plus the fully occupied skyboxes means there were at least 11,340 screaming fans in the building.

And they were LOUD

• Video Link

[MonctonRad]

No doubt, and I'm sure the atmosphere was electric!



This was the scene on the plaza outside the Avenir Centre on New Years Eve immediately after the USA/Finland game in the arena had finished. Kids skating on the Ian Fowler Oval, and adults watching the subsequent Canada/Sweden game from the Scotiabank Centre in Halifax on the big screen mounted on the stage, Afterwards, there was a live band and fireworks at midnight. Food trucks were parked at the side of the plaza, there was a tent with activities, and fire pits allowed people to stay warm. It was all fantastic.



And, I think even you q12 would agree that the Avenir Centre has a better organ (and organist) than the Scotiabank Centre.

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I wonder how difficult it would be to raise the roof somehow and construct a new upper bowl level with relocated skyboxes. HRM does have the advantage of owning the surrounding streets. Could they take over part of Carmichael, Duke or Brunswick to expand the building, or at least cantilever an expansion over those? All such options should be explored before looking at other sites. The other option that makes the most sense is to scrap the ill-considered Forum redevelopment boondoggle and construct a new arena there of appropriate size.

I have been told at various times over the years (not least by an experienced developer while enjoying the hospitality in his skybox) that the building was specifically designed to accommodate future expansion by addition of upper-bowl seats at the ends, to be cantilevered over Duke Street on the north end.

Anyone here know anything about that? Is it just rumor? If true, I suppose it may have been compromised by the later addition of more skyboxes, which would undoubtedly make expansion more difficult (or at least more expensive).


I think the current location is perfect and if there's any way to keep an arena on that site it should be explored first.

[Mr.Zero33]

Even though 11,000 or so can fit into the Scotiabank Centre the concourse area and washroom facilities are NOT adequate for that large of a crowd. The mentioned areas in my opinion are suitable and comfortable when attendance is in the 7500 range or less.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

I have been told at various times over the years (not least by an experienced developer while enjoying the hospitality in his skybox) that the building was specifically designed to accommodate future expansion by addition of upper-bowl seats at the ends, to be cantilevered over Duke Street on the north end.

Anyone here know anything about that? Is it just rumor? If true, I suppose it may have been compromised by the later addition of more skyboxes, which would undoubtedly make expansion more difficult (or at least more expensive).

I recall the talk of upper bowl expansion being accounted for at either end of the building in the design from the time of its opening. Presumably somewhere on an old set of plans there is something describing how that would be done.

Fred's skyboxes at the end would be necessary casualties until they were replaced. The ones along the E-W sides are the real problem as they restrict sightlines and make much of the upper bowl feel claustrophobic, and should be ripped out .

[Empire]

Originally Posted by Empire

You might be able to shoehorn a 16,000 seat arena on the Piercy brownfield lands? The current Scotiabank Centre could become a movie production studio / soundstage and be connected to the newly renovated arts hub. You could save 2-3000 seats to create a great concert venue.

30min. walk to downtown. Think of the bars etc. on Agricola en route....and this area could be the new downtown.

Source - Google Maps:

Piercy Lands:
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6587997,...dPaKfmstFooyXCCDb31XQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/place/6301+D...a8c5961e6!8m2!3d44.6487374!4d-63.6001185

Another potential site for a 15,000+ arena / concert venue is the St. Pat's Lands on Quinpool.

Ref. google maps, viewpoint:

St. Pat's Lands ~143,748sq. ft. / 17 min. walk DT
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6474442,-63.5918193,203m/data=!3m1!1e3

Piercy Lands ~257,004sq. ft. / 31 min. walk DT
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6579414,-63.6007569,197m/data=!3m1!1e3

Current Scotiabank Centre ~100,188sq. ft. / DT
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6482774,-63.5762007,221m/data=!3m1!1e3

[MonctonRad]

How about the (eventually to be demolished) VG site. This is close to SGR and all the amenities there.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I agree that the Metro/Scotiabank/future sponsorship option Centre should remain on its current site at all costs. It is a centrepiece of DT Halifax and its site down from the historic town clock and Citadel Hill whilst right in the middle of the entertainment district is perfect.

IMHO cantilevering over Duke and Carmichael Streets should be able to provide for extra seating and concourse/washroom facilities. For that matter, eliminating all or part of Carmichael could be on the table, for all the traffic it sees (remember, part of Grafton was eliminated to accommodate the Nova Centre, which is arguably a much less important use of land). They might also want to consider expanding into part of the old Trade Centre building if possible.

IMHO, they have gotten good use out of its current configuration for many decades, and it's now time to put some major investment (including some provincial $$) into it. In keeping with the province's plan to vastly increase the population in coming years, this facility needs a sizeable expansion to keep up with increased capacity requirements for the future. What was fine in 1978 (and it was... I attended the first hockey game ever played there), will not be adequate for 2028 (its 50th anniversary!) and beyond...

[MonctonRad]

I agree the current site is preferable too. I only mention the VG site as an option.

One thing to consider is, if the current site is maintained, it makes no difference in terms of disruption whether we are talking about major expansion or complete reconstruction. Either way, the Scotiabank Centre will be out of commission for about three years.

Thought should be given as to what happens for that time period. Is the old Halifax Forum the logical site to temporarily move the Mooseheads and Thunderbirds?

Doesn't the current plan to renovate the Forum include a decreased capacity? I can't recall. Is this a mistake???

[Empire]

If you were to add an upper bowl to the ends of Scotiabank Centre without removing the roof (centre main box trusses) you would need to expand over Duke and Carmichael. This would likely only be an upper bowl straight up and not wrap-around. You would also have to remove the skyboxes as they work with a smaller venue restricting sitelines but not for a multi million dollar retrofit. The additional seating would likely only add ~2000 for 12,595, well below the 15,000 benchmark.

The current amenities are inadequate for additional seats. No restaurants, bars and potentially no skyboxes. The other lacking element is an appropriate press box. Temp. staging and scaffolding have been used for years.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Thought should be given as to what happens for that time period. Is the old Halifax Forum the logical site to temporarily move the Mooseheads and Thunderbirds?

Doesn't the current plan to renovate the Forum include a decreased capacity? I can't recall. Is this a mistake???

Yes, it does, and it is. Another victim of HRM myopia. I believe the number I saw was less than 3000 seats. Likely cost was north of $60 million, which probably means $100 million in HRM math. Less parking too as the planners want a piece of it for a lawn or some such thing. The entire thing needs to be scrapped and new plans developed.

[Empire]

Only HRM could spend $60 million to make a facility less functional amid a growing population.

[JHikka]

How is something less functional because it has a lower capacity? It can still be used, can't it?

Would the preferred option have been to demolish it? Seems like any spending of money will be criticized regardless.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by JHikka

How is something less functional because it has a lower capacity? It can still be used, can't it?

Would the preferred option have been to demolish it? Seems like any spending of money will be criticized regardless.

It's less functional for the people who can't attend events due to lack of seating.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Empire

It's less functional for the people who can't attend events due to lack of seating.

Has the Forum actually been used much for mass-entertainment events for which it has been undercapacity? My impression is that events such as these tend to go to Scotiabank Centre.

I do think an argument could be made for increased capacity based on the influx of residential buildings in the area, but IMHO focus should still be on the downtown to host major events. However, I don't think that the argument for increased capacity should not be centred around the potential for hosting the Mooseheads temporarily while their facility is overhauled.

I also think it's important to maintain the architectural integrity of the Forum, as it's an important part of the city's history. If you just want a large capacity arena that blows up the old Forum, then why not just create a clean-sheet design on another more-favourable spot?

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Empire

No restaurants, bars

The surrounding streets contain many of these, so IMHO this shouldn't be a priority within the facility beyond a spot to buy a beer and/or a snack.

The beauty of this location, unlike more suburban arenas in other cities, is that the vibrant DT Halifax area creates an environment that adds to the experience of attending an event here, so going to a bar/restaurant before and after the actual event just makes it that much better. Then there are also the financial benefits to the owners of these surrounding businesses, which helps to balance out the times when business is slow and keep their establishments viable.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I agree the current site is preferable too. I only mention the VG site as an option.

One thing to consider is, if the current site is maintained, it makes no difference in terms of disruption whether we are talking about major expansion or complete reconstruction. Either way, the Scotiabank Centre will be out of commission for about three years.

Thought should be given as to what happens for that time period. Is the old Halifax Forum the logical site to temporarily move the Mooseheads and Thunderbirds?

Doesn't the current plan to renovate the Forum include a decreased capacity? I can't recall. Is this a mistake???

I think it's an important point, but it shouldn't define the long-term location of this facility. To say let's put it into the suburbs because it helps make the transition easier is putting the cart before the horse, IMHO. Wherever the teams play while construction occurs is immaterial, and will be inconvenient for sure, but the long-term benefits far outweigh that inconvenience.