Hard Rock Hotel and Casino [former Rideau Carleton Raceway] | Completed - Page 9

Acajack · #**161** Posted **Dec 2, 2019, 9:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac888yow

Touring around means going to different places. The existence of one doesn't preclude visiting the other.

.

That's true. Hard Rock will likely try to undercut Lac Leamy's room rates with their hotel. So people may stay at Hard Rock for the weekend, and have one outing at Lac Leamy as part of the package too.

Note that there is a Holiday Inn Express currently under construction right across the street from Casino du Lac Leamy. On the site of the former Acura dealership.

acottawa · #**162** Posted **Dec 3, 2019, 7:14 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac888yow

I'm told by some in gambling circles that there's a lot of gaming tourists in upstate New York and the northeast in general and this new facility will target them among others.

Surely they've got their business case figured out and aren't just doing this on a prayer.

I wouldn't necessarily assume there is a business case. Hard Rock just has a management agreement with OLG (i.e. they get paid regardless), not any money invested, and OLG often makes decisions for political reasons, not business ones.

acottawa · #**163** Posted **Dec 3, 2019, 7:24 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.OT13

This is not surprising. We're expanding a racetrack in the middle of a rural area. It could never compete with a long established, centrally located casino.

And, we're Ottawa. Ottawa is the centre of mediocrity. Look at our development projects. Look at our rapid transit line, our Convention Centre, the planned Central Library. Look at what certain companies do well in other cities but half-ass in Ottawa: Brookfield and Place de Ville compared to Brookfield Place in Calgary or the Toronto Dominion Centre, Hudson's Bay's impressive renovation of their Toronto and Vancouver flagships compared to the little work they've done with the Rideau store.

I think frugality is so deeply-embedded in the culture here (except for cars and parkas where people like to buy pointlessly expensive things) and that it affects all sorts of things. Look at the impact it has on the way condo corporations are run, the way the city does everything to a barebones standard, the way the federal government underinvests in all sorts of things, and it has a very clear effect on any sort of public infrastructure, stores, restaurants, sports teams, lack of flights, condos, houses, office buildings, etc.

I am not saying frugality is necessarily a bad thing (the opposite is no good either), but it means we are going to have fewer nice things than other cities.

Acajack · #**164** Posted **Dec 3, 2019, 1:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by acottawa

I think frugality is so deeply-embedded in the culture here (except for cars and parkas where people like to buy pointlessly expensive things) and that it affects all sorts of things. Look at the impact it has on the way condo corporations are run, the way the city does everything to a barebones standard, the way the federal government underinvests in all sorts of things, and it has a very clear effect on any sort of public infrastructure, stores, restaurants, sports teams, lack of flights, condos, houses, office buildings, etc.

I am not saying frugality is necessarily a bad thing (the opposite is no good either), but it means we are going to have fewer nice things than other cities.

A generalized cultural restraint that comes from the need to not appear to be spending the entire country's money too ostentatiously on oneself?

YOWflier · #**165** Posted **Dec 3, 2019, 1:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by acottawa

I wouldn't necessarily assume there is a business case. Hard Rock just has a management agreement with OLG (i.e. they get paid regardless), not any money invested, and OLG often makes decisions for political reasons, not business ones.

It's not an uncommon arrangement and be it as it may, no company associates its name with something without a vested interest in success. Failure is not a good look on them regardless of how hard it doesn't hit the bottom line.

acottawa · #**166** Posted **Dec 4, 2019, 6:18 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac888yow

It's not an uncommon arrangement and be it as it may, no company associates its name with something without a vested interest in success. Failure is not a good look on them regardless of how hard it doesn't hit the bottom line.

A quick google search indicates casinos run into financial problems all the time (including Hard Rocks). They make their money off the management agreement and licensing. Whether or not OLG makes money (or makes as much money as they should in a catchment area of this size) is not Hard Rock's concern.

YOWflier · #**167** Posted **Dec 4, 2019, 1:29 PM**

Have the terms of their agreement been publicly disclosed?

J.OT13 · #**168** Posted **Jan 17, 2020, 1:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocketphish

The Hard Rock Ottawa Raceway and Casino (formerly Rideau Carleton Raceway and Slots) is proposing the construction of an addition to the existing casino, a hotel, and redesigned surface parking areas. The addition to the casino will add approximately 7,019 m2 gross floor area to the casino floor, 106 m2 gross floor area for a retail store, 4,692 m2 gross floor area for restaurants, and 2,587 m2 gross floor area for a 1,600-seat theatre. The proposed hotel is accessed through the casino floor. The 178-room hotel has an approximate gross floor area of 9,283 m2.

Development application:
http://app01.ottawa.ca/postingplans/appDetails.jsf?lang=en&appId=__BPJ8AX

Renderings:

Hard Rock in Coquitlam for comparison. Hotel (12 fl, 141 rooms) is an addition to the existing casino.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpongeG

the Hard Rock is opening a hotel in Coquitlam at the Casino. It's been approved and is in permit stage now.

dailyhive.com

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/hard-rock-casino-vancouver-coquitlam-hotel-expansion

Should we change the name of the thread to Hard Rock Ottawa Raceway and Casino?

J.OT13 · #**169** Posted **Jul 27, 2022, 2:00 PM**

Quote:

Rideau Carleton Raceway casino hit with more than $200K in fines

Allegations include failing to implement policies to prevent money laundering

CBC News · Posted: Jul 13, 2022 3:48 PM ET | Last Updated: July 13

The operators of the Rideau Carleton Raceway's casino have been fined more than $200,000 by Ontario's liquor and gaming regulator for a smattering of alleged violations that include failing to properly address the risk of money laundering.

In a statement Wednesday, the Alcohol and Gaming Commission of Ontario (AGCO) said it had identified 36 violations committed by HR Ottawa LP — better known as Hard Rock Ottawa — during an audit of the rural south Ottawa casino.

According to the AGCO, the three dozen violations included:

Failing repeatedly to implement, follow and enforce mandatory anti-money laundering policies and procedures.
Not making sure staff had completed necessary training around those policies.
Failing to sufficiently protect gaming systems and data from security vulnerabilities.
Providing advertising and marketing materials to people who had "self-excluded" from gambling activities.
Running a "compliance oversight function" that was not independent of the company's operations.

As a result, Hard Rock Ottawa was fined $227,250 for the alleged breaches, the AGCO said.

Any casino operator served with such a fine can appeal it to the independent Licence Appeal Tribunal.

Hard Rock took over day-to-day operations of the raceway casino in 2017.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ri...0Rock,the%20raceway%20casino%20in%202017.

J.OT13 · #**170** Posted **Jul 27, 2022, 2:09 PM**

Has Hard Rock done anything so far with RCR? The City went out of its way to sole source RCR for the casino, shunning Melnyk and anyone else who may have been interested to propose their own casino, and what do we have to show for it? Some American company using RCR as a minor side-gig, disrespecting rules and regulations. The promised investments in the market and competition with the Casino du Lac-Leamy never materialized.

Can't help but wonder hw much would have been built if Melnyk or someone else would have had the chance to bid and and build their own vision.

Sure Covid might have something to do with the slow progress, but that doesn't excuse the violations.

qprcanada · #**171** Posted **Jul 27, 2022, 2:34 PM**

The location is absymal, if you are a visitor staying downtown, do you go to the Lac Lemy casino that you can probably see from your hotel window or drive out to the burbs.

A Downtown casino could be part of a revitalization of the CBD or Sparks St

OTSkyline · #**172** Posted **Jul 27, 2022, 5:38 PM**

Another example of lack of vision and Ottawa's small-town mindedness IMO. You can hate casinos all you want, but it's hard to disagree that a new, vibrant, modern casino downtown would have been worst than the current car-oriented location in the boonies.

But I guess for most, they like that it's "out of sight, out of mind"

roger1818 · #**173** Posted **Jul 27, 2022, 5:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

Another example of lack of vision and Ottawa's small-town mindedness IMO. You can hate casinos all you want, but it's hard to disagree that a new, vibrant, modern casino downtown would have been worst than the current car-oriented location in the boonies.

But I guess for most, they like that it's "out of sight, out of mind"

But didn't you know that Ottawa is too small a city to have 2 casinos any less than 19 km apart?

OTSkyline · #**174** Posted **Jul 27, 2022, 7:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by roger1818

But didn't you know that Ottawa is too small a city to have 2 casinos any less than 19 km apart?

Didn't know casinos also had to social distance

ponyboycurtis · #**175** Posted **Jul 27, 2022, 8:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

Another example of lack of vision and Ottawa's small-town mindedness IMO. You can hate casinos all you want, but it's hard to disagree that a new, vibrant, modern casino downtown would have been worst than the current car-oriented location in the boonies.

But I guess for most, they like that it's "out of sight, out of mind"

That's fair but the entire thing spawned from the racetrack to begin with.

Sidenote.. has anyone ever done offtrack betting? Specifically at the Concorde on Montreal rd. when it was still open? Man... that was just about the greasiest spot I've seen in Ottawa and I've been to all the dive bars at some point.

Made me feel like it was in a Charles Bukowski novel.

originalmuffins · #**176** Posted **Jul 27, 2022, 10:10 PM**

Honestly I gotta agree with the others... this would have been better to introduce the Hard Rock or something else in the downtown area - possibly near Queen on the western side of downtown or near Sparks... so Sparks can actually be a vibrant and active area.

The patrons going to RCR wouldn't be the same served with a downtown location. You'd think Hard Rock would be finalizing their RCR transformation by now lol...

J.OT13 · #**177** Posted **Jan 6, 2023, 2:11 PM**

New docs are up on DevApps, but looks just about the same as before:

https://devapps.ottawa.ca/en/applications/D07-12-19-0191/details

Ottawacurious · #**178** Posted **Jan 6, 2023, 6:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by originalmuffins

Honestly I gotta agree with the others... this would have been better to introduce the Hard Rock or something else in the downtown area - possibly near Queen on the western side of downtown or near Sparks... so Sparks can actually be a vibrant and active area.

The patrons going to RCR wouldn't be the same served with a downtown location. You'd think Hard Rock would be finalizing their RCR transformation by now lol...

I still think having a casino as part of lansdowne would work (except for the nimby groups). Add in the hotel with moderate conference room space and you've got two big attractions plus a place to eat and sleep in the same spot. Complete package and pretty easy to market.

J.OT13 · #**179** Posted **Jan 6, 2023, 6:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ottawacurious

I still think having a casino as part of lansdowne would work (except for the nimby groups). Add in the hotel with moderate conference room space and you've got two big attractions plus a place to eat and sleep in the same spot. Complete package and pretty easy to market.

I agree, Lansdowne would be a better location.

In hindsight, maybe it's a good thing Melnyk didn't have a chance to bid on a casino as it would have solidified the Sens location in Kanata for the long-run*.

*in the hopes that the LeBreton deal succeed this time and Sens move within the decade.

Harley613 · #**180** Posted **Jan 6, 2023, 9:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ottawacurious

I still think having a casino as part of lansdowne would work (except for the nimby groups). Add in the hotel with moderate conference room space and you've got two big attractions plus a place to eat and sleep in the same spot. Complete package and pretty easy to market.

I don't think there was any chance of the casino going anywhere but Rideau-Carleton. I remember vividly that King Watson wouldn't listen to any other bidder, any argument, any proposal...it was just Rideau Carleton or bust for him. Still makes me wonder what was going on behind the scenes.