DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[i4isoar]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

For fans of urbanism

Nathaniel Minor/Denverite has an in-depth look at the history of Colorado Blvd from the romantic days of the 1920's and 1930's through all the changes up to today.

Interesting read, thanks for sharing. On a somewhat related note, someone did an op-ed piece at Colorado Sun about many of the issues that have been discussed over the last few pages.

Some interesting things I learned:

1. Starting salary for DPS teacher is just barely over $50k. Assuming that most rental properties adhere strictly to the "minimum income = 3x rent" requirement, this means that DPS teachers can't afford most places in Denver.
2. Only 20 % of the land area of Denver is zoned to allow multi-family units.

After reading the article, I had some thoughts:

1. What if DPS and other municipal services (police, fire, paramedics, etc.) provided housing for their employees? Cost of providing employee housing could be deducted from salary, but I imagine that the City of Denver, as a large customer, would be in a better bargaining position to negotiate lower rents or other discounts or benefits from landlords (like how the govt. in single-payer healthcare systems can negotiate for lower drug prices, thereby greatly lowering costs for the individual). This would mainly benefit City employees, but I imagine there would be other social benefits for having teachers, police officers, etc. live in the community they serve.
2. We could probably house more people in just Denver alone if we changed the laws to add just another 20 % of the land area for multi-family. Allowing multi-family dwellings on only a fifth of a major city's surface area seems like an incredibly inefficient use of land to me.

[TakeFive]

Nice Post

Originally Posted by i4isoar

On a somewhat related note, someone did an op-ed piece at Colorado Sun about many of the issues that have been discussed over the last few pages.

It's a tough topic. That editorial while well done is basically boilerplate and zoning has been discussed many times here in recent years.

As mentioned above Ken/DenverInfill and others have argued for upzoning to fourplexes to at least create some 'missing middle' housing. Initially I wanted to preserve the 'character' of historical neighborhood homes - but I ultimately realized it wouldn't be a problem. It wouldn't be economical to buy an $800,000 home, sell it for scrap and try to build a fourplex. There's likely some opportunities at the margin though.

laniroj mentioned Englewood. Builders have taken advantage of industrial land that was rezoned and/or there were either misc vacant lots and/or crummy houses. A lot of Englewood isn't necessarily that desirable which has helped to make redevelopment for new modest density viable from reasonable land costs.

Yes, It's a NIMBY problem

I'd guess that outside of Denver, none of the other counties would even dare to bring up a blanket rezoning for fear of a voter backlash. Even in Denver that could be a tough sell to city councilors. But Denver has been doing neighborhood plans and creating overlays in some areas so there's opportunity - but it's a slow slog.

A few shining examples

My favorite would be Belmar by Continuum Partners. They did such a nice job that somebody paid too much for the property and ended up gifting the property back to the lenders. Oh well, at least the project was built.

It was a painfully slow process but Westminster stayed the course and while their New Downtown is not yet a raging success it has been successful and is still going. But it also points out how important location is. This location is not bad but it's not 'hot' either.

The Streets of SouthGlenn was reasonably successful. Unfortunately density was limited but they've recently applied for added multifamily zoning.

With respect to brand new development

it has taken many years but a farm in the heart of Westminster was finally rezoned for homes including lots of missing middle units. It's called Uplands and they may be able to break ground next summer.

[TakeFive]

Making Google Your Friend

City/County of Denver

Learning about neighborhood or area plans

The most recent approved plan was the East Colfax or East Area Plan.

Learn about Design Overlay Zones

The Denver North Star (West Side) has a couple of interesting pieces from their POV on Overlays: One and Two.

Most of what Denver has done or is doing is based off of Blueprint Denver which finally finalized in 2019.

[gopokes21]

Originally Posted by i4isoar

Interesting read, thanks for sharing. On a somewhat related note, someone did an op-ed piece at Colorado Sun about many of the issues that have been discussed over the last few pages.

Some interesting things I learned:

1. Starting salary for DPS teacher is just barely over $50k. Assuming that most rental properties adhere strictly to the "minimum income = 3x rent" requirement, this means that DPS teachers can't afford most places in Denver.
2. Only 20 % of the land area of Denver is zoned to allow multi-family units.

After reading the article, I had some thoughts:

1. What if DPS and other municipal services (police, fire, paramedics, etc.) provided housing for their employees? Cost of providing employee housing could be deducted from salary, but I imagine that the City of Denver, as a large customer, would be in a better bargaining position to negotiate lower rents or other discounts or benefits from landlords (like how the govt. in single-payer healthcare systems can negotiate for lower drug prices, thereby greatly lowering costs for the individual). This would mainly benefit City employees, but I imagine there would be other social benefits for having teachers, police officers, etc. live in the community they serve.
2. We could probably house more people in just Denver alone if we changed the laws to add just another 20 % of the land area for multi-family. Allowing multi-family dwellings on only a fifth of a major city's surface area seems like an incredibly inefficient use of land to me.

I just have to push back on this a little because this is such a stupid, yet pervasive narrative. That's a $50K salary for someone fresh out of college with ZERO experience, and they're hiring more folks from Metro State or CSU-Pueblo than Ivy League. It's not like there is another profession offering much better. You can be a medical doctor if you want to be a student until you're in your 30s, and even then your pay ramps up gradually.

When I finished my bachelor's at OK State in 2010 I got to do unpaid internships because that was life back then. When I finished my master's at Michigan I briefly earned in the upper 40s (*gasp*) before it got a lot better, and then I worked my tail off through my 20s and into my 30s in order to afford my first home in Denver.

I'll be honest that it makes me a little sick to hear this overwhelming narrative about these poor teachers who can't afford to buy a home right out of college with ZERO experience. The fact is that's anyone with ZERO experience. DPS actually ramps up their pay pretty quickly compared to other professions (such as architecture, to be honest). The avg DPS teacher is making around $80K, while the avg DPS admin is making 6 figures.

None of this is to say we shouldn't have more rental affordable housing stock to allow young professionals to get a foothold and build a life in our city. But give me a break with these intellectually lazy arguments that basically amount to entitlement. And I say that as a fairly reliable progressive voter who actually wants to see DPS do well and our neighborhoods accommodate more people.

Anyway, get ready for the next teacher strike in the new year when the CDC returns to mask guidance and teachers don't want to teach anymore. It's always something. DPS gets everything they ever ask for and not once do they really sound grateful, which annoys me because I've never seen a better-funded school district.

[DenverInfill]

Originally Posted by gopokes21

I'll be honest that it makes me a little sick to hear this overwhelming narrative about these poor teachers who can't afford to buy a home right out of college with ZERO experience. The fact is that's anyone with ZERO experience. DPS actually ramps up their pay pretty quickly compared to other professions (such as architecture, to be honest). The avg DPS teacher is making around $80K, while the avg DPS admin is making 6 figures.

None of this is to say we shouldn't have more rental affordable housing stock to allow young professionals to get a foothold and build a life in our city. But give me a break with these intellectually lazy arguments that basically amount to entitlement. And I say that as a fairly reliable progressive voter who actually wants to see DPS do well and our neighborhoods accommodate more people.

The author didn't say entry-level teachers making $50k aren't able to afford to buy a home in Denver. He said these teachers can't afford to rent most places in Denver.

[mojiferous]

Originally Posted by gopokes21

Anyway, get ready for the next teacher strike in the new year when the CDC returns to mask guidance and teachers don't want to teach anymore. It's always something. DPS gets everything they ever ask for and not once do they really sound grateful, which annoys me because I've never seen a better-funded school district.

I think you're confusing DPS with the DPD.

And DPS is way under-funded and understaffed. They only appear better funded because most public school systems in this country have spent the better part of the last 70 years being dismantled and defunded.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by mr1138

...This is why I've always been intruiged by the idea of every rezoning allowing for the "next increment" of density immediately (credit goes to StrongTowns for this idea). What if every new neighborhood actually allowed more density by-right than what the developer thinks is profitable today? Then it wouldn't be such a big fight when the economics are right to begin redeveloping. I don't think there's any way to deny that zoning capacity in pretty much EVERY desirable US city is tighter than market demand.

^^^Next increment zoning is something I've been advocating for a long time. What's sad is that our form based zoning was originally viewed akin to next increment - at least that was the original intent. Then city planners got carried away as they always do and threw a gigaton of regulations on top of that instead of just letting the market get creative. It's not possible to build creative products at scale in today's regulatory environment.

You're right about profit margins - that's what drives everything, the risk reward return, My personal belief is that the Great Recession put out of business a giant number of the smaller local boutique home builders who had the niche market of cottages, townhomes, and small lot SFH. They've just never come back and at the same time, the large homebuilders said screw it, we're not doing that stuff anymore either. As a result, land developers stopped designing those products into their communities...

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Confused at the contradiction here- are you saying that Central Park did build a variety of housing or that it did not?

I don't think that anyone in Central Park considers Northfield to be the faux town center of the neighborhood. It's an open-air mall where moms go for yoga and barre and to do Target runs. Even the southsiders who poo-poo anything north of I-70 because they live in the "real" Central Park.

I'm moreso talking about mixed use from a housing perspective in Central Park - not northfield. I'm not talking about other "mixed" uses like neighborhood services and such. Central Park has decent multifamily (getting better now) but really has token project or two of other uses - not nearly enough housing diversity - but it's better than most recent suburban developments.

Ps: folks today think mixed use is segregated uses adjacent to each other. There is hardly any vertical mixed use in the suburbs. Very difficult to make that work without real density to support the ground retail in those suburban locations. My take is that mixed use is a bar on a corner or a flower shop mid block with a 10 story senior tower and single family plus townhomes all on the same block!

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by gopokes21

I just have to push back on this a little because this is such a stupid, yet pervasive narrative. That's a $50K salary for someone fresh out of college with ZERO experience...

I had to laugh at myself for being behind the times. It seems it wasn't that long ago that teachers achieved a starting salary of $30,000. Now it's $50,000... Holy Cow!

So a married couple of teachers make easily over a $100,000?

Originally Posted by mojiferous

I think you're confusing DPS with the DPD.

And DPS is way under-funded and understaffed. They only appear better funded because most public school systems in this country have spent the better part of the last 70 years being dismantled and defunded.

Denver area teachers make about 50% more than the national average.

Arizona schools/teachers are some of the worst funded yet they also have some of the highest rated schools in the country. Go figure! I guess (more) money doesn't necessarily equal quality?

Arizona follows a 'Southern' or Texas model of focusing on funding Higher Education. Arizona has ramped up their university STEM and engineering schools over the last decade albeit including a lot of private donations. Point Being: a company like TSCM who wants to invest $40 billion notices something like this. Anecdotally, I recently picked up a brand new engineering graduate who just went to work there. TSMC prefers new graduates due their processes being so unique that they'd rather train new graduates as apposed to experienced engineers.

Doing more with less and doing it better is the American Way.

[TakeFive]

It's all in the economics

Originally Posted by laniroj

Ps: folks today think mixed use is segregated uses adjacent to each other. There is hardly any vertical mixed use in the suburbs. Very difficult to make that work without real density to support the ground retail in those suburban locations. My take is that mixed use is a bar on a corner or a flower shop mid block with a 10 story senior tower and single family plus townhomes all on the same block!

You've said yourself how much cheaper it is to build in the suburbs; so of course suburban mixed use will be much less dense. Where land is plentiful it only makes good economic sense to build suburban density that is 3 to 5 stories.

Otoh, In Scottsdale where the economics are very different builders (like LMC) buy one/two story office and retail buildings, scrape them and build 5-story apartments near Kierland Commons or Scottsdale Quarter. Tempe is much the same with redevelopment but the market supports (even higher) density in Tempe. In either case people flock to dense, well-done retail areas which are then surrounded by new redevelopment of apartment or condo projects.

For more mundane retail it still makes sense to cluster the retail and add multifamily or missing middle units adjacent to the retail. Lone Tree will have the best mixed use master plan but again it's the economics.

[TakeFive]

We have a December Groundbreaking in Denver

196-Unit Apartment Project Breaks Ground Near Sloan’s Lake
December 21, 2022 - Mile High CRE

Wilder Apartments
1521 Hooker Street


Image courtesy Davis Partnership Architects

Cleveland-based real estate developer The Max Collaborative and Denver-based real estate developer and investment firm NAVA Real Estate Development (NAVA) recently broke ground on Wilder, a ground-up 196-unit apartment building at 1521 Hooker Street, located just one mile west of downtown Denver at the edge of the Sloan’s Lake and West Colfax neighborhoods. Saunders Construction is serving as the general contractor.

Completion is slated for late 2024.

[TakeFive]

Speaking of Affordability

Westminster Ranks Among the 50 Best U.S. Cities for Remote Workers
December 20, 2022 - Mile High CRE

Remote work has already sparked moves among professionals who can do their jobs from anywhere. According to a recent Upwork report, around 5 million Americans moved to a new city in the last two years thanks to work flexibility.

So, where should remote workers relocate? To Westminster. According to RentCafe’s latest report, the city ranks among the top 50 hotspots for remote workers nationwide, offering a great mixture of remote work conditions, work-life balance opportunities, affordability and comfort.

• Westminster has everything remote workers need. Almost 81% of rentals have internet access (78.2 Mbps) and there are shared workspaces where digital nomads can meet up — currently, there are 2,608 remote workers per coworking space.
• Apartments in Westminster offer an average of 861 square feet of space, enough to designate an area for a home office. In addition, 56% of rentals are high-end, which earned the city extra points in the comfort category.
• If work-life balance is a deal breaker for remote workers, Westminster has it covered. Besides amazing parks and an active social scene, 92% of apartments have sports amenities and there are more than 200 sunny days per year in the city.

---------------------------------

ARLO Residential to Convert Aurora Hotel into Affordable Housing
December 19, 2022 - Mile High CRE


Radisson Hotel at 3155 S. Vaughn Way, courtesy of Radisson

Chicago-based hotel investment and management company, Arbor Lodging, recently announced the launch of its latest vertical, ARLO Residential, that is focused on converting properties ranging from hotels and office buildings into affordable living options. To officially kick off this new venture, the company has entered the Denver market. In a joint venture with Bridge Investment Group, an ARLO Residential affiliate acquired the former Radisson Hotel Denver-Aurora. ARLO will convert the 440-room hotel into an apartment community that will be known as “ARLO at Nine Mile Station.”

The new community will consist of 331 apartments with a mix of 2-bedroom, 1-bedroom, and studio units and high-quality amenities that include co-working space, pool, fitness center, community center, package delivery room, parking garage, and with much more in planning.

Back in the day, this location at the NEC of Parker Rd and I-225 was a new hot spot for office space and a hotel. Now, not so much so it made a good candidate for Adaptive Re-use.

[MovinOnUp]

Tres Birds is a local treasure. Very exciting to see them working on higher profile (and scale) projects around the city.

Love the simplicity of this one. Feels very Japanese/Skandi clean and modern.

[TakeFive]

Thanks for the Very Cool Renderings

Originally Posted by MovinOnUp

Tres Birds is a local treasure. Very exciting to see them working on higher profile (and scale) projects around the city.

Love the simplicity of this one. Feels very Japanese/Skandi clean and modern.

and I agree with your comment.

Can I assume these were sourced from ArchDaily.com by by Maria-Cristina Florian on 12/21/2022 with images per Tres Birds?

There was also this back in November:

Denver’s Tallest Mass Timber Building Set to Break Ground in 2023
November 16, 2022 - Mile High CRE

Denver’s tallest mass timber building will break ground in July 2023, Denver-based Tres Birds announced today. Situated in the RiNo Arts District, the 12-story multifamily building named “Return to Form” will be located at 3495 Wynkoop Street and will include 84 dwelling units including four penthouse units, 32 two-bedroom units, 32 one-bedroom units, and 16 studio units. Four of the units will be affordable as defined by the City of Denver.

The Return to Form building will have 84 dwelling units including four penthouse units, 32 two-bedroom units, 32 one-bedroom units, and 16 studio units. Four of the units will be affordable as defined by the City of Denver. The ground floor will feature a café that will be open to the public, and a lobby, gym and co-working amenities for the building residents. The dwelling units will occupy the 4th-12th floors. A rooftop deck is planned for building residents. On-site parking will be on levels 2 and 3

BTW the name of the project (in case you missed it like I did initially) is "Return to Form"

[TakeFive]

Speaking of Education

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

The author didn't say entry-level teachers making $50k aren't able to afford to buy a home in Denver. He said these teachers can't afford to rent most places in Denver.

I was sorry to hear that the planned new CU engineering etc building at Auraria has been put on hold due to costs going up by one-third.


Credit: University of Colorado Denver

As an aside and as Congress is finalizing their year-end Omnibus Bill, Denverite has a nice piece on what that will mean to Denver. Denver is to get $24.2 million to be allocated for various things.

The state is to get a total of $178 million and if not already allocated it would be nice if they would help to fund CU's new engineering building. I also wish CU had a deeper pool of private donors but they seem to prefer the Boulder campus when donating but Auraria is just as deserving.

[TakeFive]

Breaking:

For Immediate Release: Thursday, December 22, 2022

DEC. 22, 2022 – After a historically low rate of change between 2020 and 2021, the U.S. resident population increased by 0.4%, or 1,256,003, to 333,287,557 in 2022, according to the U.S. Census Bureau’s Vintage 2022 national and state population estimates and components of change released today.

Top 10 States in Percent Decline: 2021 to 2022

1 New York -0.9%
2 Illinois -0.8%
3 Louisiana -0.8%
4 West Virginia -0.6%
5 Hawaii -0.5%
6 Oregon -0.4%
7 Mississippi -0.3%
8 Pennsylvania -0.3%
9 Rhode Island -0.3%
10 California -0.3%

Note: Go to the site to see all the actual numbers. I just posted an abbreviated sample for Schnits and Giggles.

I don't have the patience to dig for specific Colorado numbers so those with the talent are invited to update us.

[rds70]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Breaking:

For Immediate Release: Thursday, December 22, 2022


Note: Go to the site to see all the actual numbers. I just posted an abbreviated sample for Schnits and Giggles.

I don't have the patience to dig for specific Colorado numbers so those with the talent are invited to update us.

According to the census bureau, the Colorado population increased by about 28,000. That is far below the state projection of about 45,000.

[EngiNerd]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Speaking of Education


I was sorry to hear that the planned new CU engineering etc building at Auraria has been put on hold due to costs going up by one-third.


Credit: University of Colorado Denver

As an aside and as Congress is finalizing their year-end Omnibus Bill, Denverite has a nice piece on what that will mean to Denver. Denver is to get $24.2 million to be allocated for various things.

The state is to get a total of $178 million and if not already allocated it would be nice if they would help to fund CU's new engineering building. I also wish CU had a deeper pool of private donors but they seem to prefer the Boulder campus when donating but Auraria is just as deserving.

It wasn't costs going up that killed it, it was the poor investment planning. Though banking new construction on investment earnings is dicey at best anyway.

CU’s $120 million investment loss upends plans for “once in a lifetime” spending on campus projects

https://www.denverpost.com/2022/12/16/cu-investment-losses-university-colorado/

[mojiferous]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

I had to laugh at myself for being behind the times. It seems it wasn't that long ago that teachers achieved a starting salary of $30,000. Now it's $50,000... Holy Cow!

So a married couple of teachers make easily over a $100,000?


Denver area teachers make about 50% more than the national average.

Arizona schools/teachers are some of the worst funded yet they also have some of the highest rated schools in the country. Go figure! I guess (more) money doesn't necessarily equal quality?

Arizona follows a 'Southern' or Texas model of focusing on funding Higher Education.

I know this is a dead horse, but Arizona and Texas are terrible models for everything. Except for cherry-picked statistics.

$100k is great money in rural areas or in more affordable cities, but at current Denver home prices you will probably struggle to find something you can afford. And that is the issue - the average home price is rising so fast that the demand for lower priced homes is enormous. $100k was great money for a long time, but not when the average home sells for over $400k - at that price making $100k you might still struggle to put down 20% (especially if you are renting an apartment for $2400/month) and you'll end up paying PMI and have a mortgage payment over $3k/month. At that point your home payment is almost 40% of your combined salaries BEFORE taxes. That isn't a "Holy Cow!" salary.

And again - 50% over the national average means nothing when cost of living is factored in. Teachers and anyone making the "median income" in most cities in the US are struggling to afford housing - the issue is not their pay or that you'll be forced to part with your precious tax money to pay them more - it's that housing has become a huge portion of people's costs and continues to rise. And the nation-wide strategy of doing absolutely nothing about it hasn't exactly paid off.

And Arizona has "some" high ranked schools and a lot of very, very poorly ranked ones. Because like Texas, it is highly segregated - not just racially, but economically. The low urbanization has led to the ability of high income areas to create extra-special STEM schools while other areas struggle. Cheap, plentiful suburbs in both places are the drivers of so much inequality. They are the absolute WORST examples of a functioning, equal society and the last thing Denver should mirror.

[midwestcowboy]

Originally Posted by MovinOnUp

Tres Birds is a local treasure. Very exciting to see them working on higher profile (and scale) projects around the city.

A quick aside to this: though a quality architect/design team is valuable, the real kudos should go to the development group committed (financially and procedurally) to this type of project. Any architect would be thrilled to be given this long of a leash in design, and many could come up with a concept this cool. It takes a developer that's willing to go there to make it happen. Almost all of the articles say "Tres Birds and the development team"... Looks like the developer is Katz Development.

Respect given to where it's deserved.