Building LeBreton Flats - Master Planning

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by originalmuffins

I would much rather this than an open big green field. I like it, and if they did something like this, it'd be very enjoyable, even throughout the winter.

I don't know if the other entertainment parcel is going to be used by the Sens but if it isn't: Put the Ferris wheel or Rec Room there!

Ferris Wheel on Nepean Inlet would be cool. Rec Room would be good for the Aqueduct District or attached to the arena. We definitely need more things to do downtown. Not just a few big attractions, but Rec Room sized things to do. I'd list more things, but it seems Rec Room encompasses a little bit of everything.

[J.OT13]

Cross post:

Originally Posted by J.OT13

GARRIOCH: Report indicates the Ottawa Senators may be putting up a 'For Sale' sign soon

Bruce Garrioch, Post Media
Nov 01, 2022

Are the Ottawa Senators about to put up a ‘For Sale’ sign at the Canadian Tire Centre?

According to a report, the franchise may be headed in that direction.

In an article released Tuesday morning on the value of all 32 NHL teams, Los Angeles-based Sportico reported the Senators’ board of directors have “already interviewed self-side bankers” and “there is significant interest in the franchise”.

“The Ottawa Senators are widely expected to be the next team to sell,” the article stated.

A spokesperson for the Senators said the organization has no comment on the report.

For those who don’t know, “self-side bankers” are advisors to the board of directors running the team on behalf of the Melnyk family. Those bankers would act as intermediaries to solicit bids which means they essentially act as a real estate agent for the team.

This is the first time since the passing of Senators’ owner Eugene Melnyk there has been any talk publicly the team may be sold. The franchise is part of the massive estate Melnyk left to his daughters, Anna and Olivia, and it has been operating business as usual since his death in March.

The report valued the franchise at $655 million (all figures U.S.), a rise of 21% from last year, but league sources told this newspaper that figure isn’t even close to what the franchise will be worth if the Melnyk family does decide to sell a portion or all of its stake in the team.

The Nashville Predators are about to sell for $775 million and the Seattle Kraken paid $650 in an expansion fee to get into the league. That means the value of an established Ottawa franchise will be much higher than the $655 million label that Sportico put on it.

In June, the Senators won preferred bidder status from the National Capital Commission to build a new rink at LeBreton Flats. The organization signed a memorandum of understanding with the NCC at the time and now has until next September to get a lease in place for the land.

That work to finalize the rink bid is continuing daily behind scenes

Last month, representatives of the partners in the LeBreton project were in town to meet with Anthony LeBlanc, the club’s president of business operations, chief financial officer Erin Crowe and NCC officials. Former Senators’ defenceman Chris Phillips, the club’s VP of business operations, has also played a role in the bid at LeBreton.

The partnership includes Sterling Project Development, Populous, Tipping Point Sports and Live Nation. All are well-funded and have experience in building rinks. NCC chief executive officer Tobi Nussbaum noted the depth of the club’s partnership group gave the Senators the edge.

If the lease is in place then you have to think this team will sell for closer to the $900 million to $1 billion range if the Melnyk family determines it wants to go that route. If they want to hold onto the team, they will need a partner to help them build the rink.

It’s possible one of those partners in the LeBreton bid may be among the interested parties if the Senators do go up for sale.

Of course, this is going to set off speculation of who’s interested but it’s not even known if the Melnyk family has made any firm decision.

Local businessman Roger Greenberg told CTV Ottawa in the weeks after Melnyk’s death he was interested in being involved with a group. He’s a partner in the Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group which owns the CFL’s Ottawa RedBlacks and the OHL’s Ottawa 67’s.

There’s been talk in local business circles Farmboy executive Jeff York has met with NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly and has a group in place. He was part of the other bid with Andre Desmarais of Power Corp. at LeBreton Flats in 2016.

We’ve heard these local names before but it wouldn’t surprise anybody if the team is sold it will be to people based in Toronto or the United States.

Still, this is all speculation because we don’t even know if the franchise is up for sale.

Anna and Olivia Melnyk have been doing their due-diligence before determining what’s next.

The Melnyks are taking advice from mother, Laura, the club’s financial advisors along with independent council to determine next steps. Their father didn’t just own the Senators, there’s several other businesses, including a line of beauty care products, a concussion recovery company and real estate.

NHL commissioner Gary Bettman and the league have been respectful of the fact Anna and Olivia are grieving the loss of their father. The NHL wants them to have as much time as they need to determine what’s next and the annual Melnyk Skate for Kids will return during the holiday season.

The organization is being run by LeBlanc and Crowe on the business side while general manager Pierre Dorion is in charge of the club’s hockey operations.

The trio report to Sheldon Plener, a partner in the business law group at Cassels, longtime business associate Lawrence Zeifman and John Miszuk, the Senators’ chief administrative officer, have been directing the team since Melnyk passed away.

Plener and Ziefman had been with Melnyk for several years. The league office keeps in touch with Plener on a regular basis because he’s the executor of Melnyk’s estate.

[email protected]

Twitter.com/sungarrioch

https://ottawasun.com/sports/hockey/nhl/...s-may-be-putting-up-a-for-sale-sign-soon

[J.OT13]

Don't want to get ahead of myself too much, but what are the predictions for the new arena? How long before shovels hit the ground, and how long before the team moves? And who will pay for it?

I think new owners will want to hit the ground running, so I hope to see it built within 5 years. They should know not to expect anything from Government in terms of funding, so adding some affordable housing is the only way they could save on the purchase (or lease) of the land and get some tax breaks.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Don't want to get ahead of myself too much, but what are the predictions for the new arena? How long before shovels hit the ground, and how long before the team moves? And who will pay for it?

I think new owners will want to hit the ground running, so I hope to see it built within 5 years. They should know not to expect anything from Government in terms of funding, so adding some affordable housing is the only way they could save on the purchase (or lease) of the land and get some tax breaks.

I'm going to say 4 years to shovels and 6 1/2 years to a move. I think that the NCC gives a low-cost or free land lease and the city contributes some sort of tax-increment financing arrangement. A capital fee on every ticket will be another part of the financing.

I don't see affordable housing as being realistic on that small site. They will get at most a tower or two beside the arena.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by phil235

I'm going to say 4 years to shovels and 6 1/2 years to a move. I think that the NCC gives a low-cost or free land lease and the city contributes some sort of tax-increment financing arrangement. A capital fee on every ticket will be another part of the financing.

I don't see affordable housing as being realistic on that small site. They will get at most a tower or two beside the arena.

The rendering shows 3 towers, they could squeeze 4 in there (one on each corner) if they tried. I wish they would have provided a concept site plan with the images of the arena.

I agree though, not sure if they could include affordable housing. They'll need every cent they can make to ensure a viable project.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The rendering shows 3 towers, they could squeeze 4 in there (one on each corner) if they tried. I wish they would have provided a concept site plan with the images of the arena.

I agree though, not sure if they could include affordable housing. They'll need every cent they can make to ensure a viable project.

Hadn't seen the rendering with 3. I'm assuming that it's more costly to build like that, so you are going to need higher end condos to make the numbers work.

[orleans_man]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The rendering shows 3 towers, they could squeeze 4 in there (one on each corner) if they tried. I wish they would have provided a concept site plan with the images of the arena.

I agree though, not sure if they could include affordable housing. They'll need every cent they can make to ensure a viable project.

I imagine there will be a push to have other 'Lebreton' lands included as part of the arena deal. I don't know how realistic that is, but I did hear that those discussions were happening with some potential ownership groups.

I think the rendering is "conceptual" and "optimistic"

I can imagine that real world constraints will likely leave it two one or two towers (if any) as mentioned. It's a very small parcel of land and could only fit the arena with some limited "stuff" on top.

I do hope we don't have to wait too long for shovels in the ground though... 4 years seems painful, but maybe that's what it will take...

[J.OT13]

Here are the rendering for those who may have forgotten or haven't seen them.







https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/tak...-crack-to-build-arena-at-lebreton-flats/

Of course, these are highly conceptual and the final product will probably be completely different. That said, I don't think it's too complicated to build towers on top. They only really need lobbies at the base and extra space in the basement for the day to day (garbage, moving bays, parking and so on).

I do hope that the Sens group negotiate more land. Seems the small triangle between the arena and Bayview would fit well with this part of the development. Still unclear if they scored the secondary "destination" across the tracks, in the park.

[Harley613]

Those place-filler towers look like the perfect height to continue The Great Clump's 23-30 story march Westward.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Harley613

Those place-filler towers look like the perfect height to continue The Great Clump's 23-30 story march Westward.

I'm sure we'll see far more height. I could see a shorter office tower for the Sens' and Sens' foundation HQ, but the condo/hotel tower(s) will likely be 35+. Maybe the new owners will want to stick it to Ruddy and propose over 65, and then... get this... actually build it!

[hwy418]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I'm sure we'll see far more height. I could see a shorter office tower for the Sens' and Sens' foundation HQ, but the condo/hotel tower(s) will likely be 35+. Maybe the new owners will want to stick it to Ruddy and propose over 65, and then... get this... actually build it!

I have a feeling that with the lawsuit settlement between CSMI and Trinity, the project at 900 Albert and maybe the redevelopment of Tom Brown Arena may become a part of the overall Sens arena development plan... just a hunch I have.

Would be nice to have a new Sensplex right there to use as a practice rink and a nice new hotel for functions and visiting teams.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by hwy418

I have a feeling that with the lawsuit settlement between CSMI and Trinity, the project at 900 Albert and maybe the redevelopment of Tom Brown Arena may become a part of the overall Sens arena development plan... just a hunch I have.

Would be nice to have a new Sensplex right there to use as a practice rink and a nice new hotel for functions and visiting teams.

Makes sense. A Sensplex at the Tom Brown site would be excellent. There is no doubt that there will be a hard push to get the practice rink beside the arena. I don't know that they'll be able to get it close enough that they use the same dressing room for both, but that proximity is still good.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by hwy418

I have a feeling that with the lawsuit settlement between CSMI and Trinity, the project at 900 Albert and maybe the redevelopment of Tom Brown Arena may become a part of the overall Sens arena development plan... just a hunch I have.

Would be nice to have a new Sensplex right there to use as a practice rink and a nice new hotel for functions and visiting teams.

Originally Posted by phil235

Makes sense. A Sensplex at the Tom Brown site would be excellent. There is no doubt that there will be a hard push to get the practice rink beside the arena. I don't know that they'll be able to get it close enough that they use the same dressing room for both, but that proximity is still good.

I hope that's the case. They could connect all buildings using tunnels or skywalks, maybe even a walkway over the Line 1 tracks.

This is such an amazing opportunity. Having the Sens build a new Tom Brown as a Sensplex practice rink and allowing the City to claim x number of hours could be another way of requesting tax breaks from the City.

[Dzingle Bells]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Don't want to get ahead of myself too much, but what are the predictions for the new arena? How long before shovels hit the ground, and how long before the team moves? And who will pay for it?

I think new owners will want to hit the ground running, so I hope to see it built within 5 years. They should know not to expect anything from Government in terms of funding, so adding some affordable housing is the only way they could save on the purchase (or lease) of the land and get some tax breaks.

i spoke with someone recently who was intimately involved in the design and construction of UBS Arena (New York Islanders) and they said from initial discussions and financial deals to opening night, it was 10 years.

a sensplex at Tom Brown would be amazing though it would have to be much more of an urban concept than all the others. as has been talked about on this forum before, we are at risk of losing most of the downtown arenas. imagine being able to hop on the LRT in orleans with your kid and their hockey bag and take it downtown to play at the new sensplex right beside where the sens play? now thats the type of city i'd want to live in.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Dzingle Bells

i spoke with someone recently who was intimately involved in the design and construction of UBS Arena (New York Islanders) and they said from initial discussions and financial deals to opening night, it was 10 years.

That's a bummer. I hold hope that new owners will be able to push it though much quicker, but with the City and NCC involved, I'm not holding my breath.

[Richard Eade]

My recollection is that one of the reasons that the city was keen on the previous LeBreton development plan was that it had the Sen-plex integrated with the arena on the north side of Albert. Having several new ice sheets in the same general area as the old Tom Brown Arena would have meant that the city could reap many millions of dollars removing the old arena and redeveloping the land. If there were alternative rinks, then the city wouldn’t need to spend money having its own.

As such, I can’t see the city being too enamored with the idea of losing out on the profit from redeveloping that land. I don’t think that the city will be willing to simply replace the old Tom Brown Arena with a Sens-plex. Yes, it would provide more ice surface for the cost, but it is still an ongoing cost to the city, not a profit.

Frankly, I can appreciate that point of view. I liked the idea of coupling a major arena with a Sens-plex. Since chillers need to be installed and maintained, they might as well be in the same place. It also might give the ability to provide redundancy if there can be valving between units. And, how about using a water-source heatpump to do the main chilling? There is a river right next door, the bottom of which remains pretty cold long into the late spring.

I also liked, in the last plan, that the Ability Centre/gym was included in the bundle. I think that this is something that should be aimed for again. I wonder if an Olympic-sized pool could also be added to make it an all-around sports centre? Maybe a green roof could have a few soccer pitches? Why not go BIG for this? The city needs more downtown sports facilities – and it has been taking money-in-lieu while it waits for an opportunity to provide them.

The City should be a member of a partnership to facilitate such a central location, on transit, that provides recreational facilities. The city will gain in a big way, since it will pay much less to have the construction of its new infrastructure bundled into a non-government contract. The Senator’s group will gain, since it will have many more facilities within the complex – meaning higher rents charged to restaurant/bar tenants. The residents of the city gain a new, central, sports complex. And, it means that the city can contribute to getting a downtown major arena without directly contributing to the cost of the arena (which seems to be a sticking point for many city residents).

[J.OT13]

The Sens organization did mention they would want a Sensplex/practice rink attached to the arena, but don't believe there's enough space. That said, if they can negotiate adding the little triangle between the arena and Bayview, that space could be large enough for that purpose.

In any case, no matter where a Sensplex would go, there's no reason why we can't also build towers on top, so even if it is a replacement for Tom Borown, the City could cash in.

I agree, it would be great to have the Abilities Centre join the new partnership, or at least the YMCA. As for the Olympic sized swimming pool, there is a push to get that at Hurdman. Maybe not Downtown, very accessible. but Unsure how serious that is though.

[hwy418]

Originally Posted by Dzingle Bells

a sensplex at Tom Brown would be amazing though it would have to be much more of an urban concept than all the others. as has been talked about on this forum before, we are at risk of losing most of the downtown arenas. imagine being able to hop on the LRT in orleans with your kid and their hockey bag and take it downtown to play at the new sensplex right beside where the sens play? now thats the type of city i'd want to live in.

I'm all for that, but there's no chance I would get on our LRT with my son's goalie bag. I'll pay for parking if I have to.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by hwy418

I'm all for that, but there's no chance I would get on our LRT with my son's goalie bag. I'll pay for parking if I have to.

Realistically, how many people will be living in Orleans close enough to LRT, that it would be reasonable to drag a kid's hockey bag to a station? Very few, if any. What you say is truth.

[hwy418]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Realistically, how many people will be living in Orleans close enough to LRT, that it would be reasonable to drag a kid's hockey bag to a station? Very few, if any. What you say is truth.

Agreed. If there's a special event (requiring full gear, not public skating) or one of the many Sensplex tournaments most if not all will drive there.