PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread X

[Redddog]

dupe

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by BroadandMarket

Can we pin this to the top of the thread because it's perfect. No one is coming to save Market East. It's made a lot of progress in the last 15 years but it's still a dump. I think it'll get better slowly but never to the point it's not a rough area. Build the arena and force the whole Philadelphia region to spend their money in market east and support Septa/Patco while doing so. Remember what tourists see when they walk from the hotels (Marriott and Loews) to Independence Mall...

This is arguably one of the most traveled stretch by tourists IN THE WORLD.

The fact that those are the things they see when they walk to Old City is a disgrace.

[Gatorade_Jim]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

I'd rather see the building knocked down, but an apartment conversion is a big deal for West Market Street.

Alterra Property Group nears deal to acquire 1701 Market St., soon to be vacated by Morgan Lewis

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/news/2022/12/15/alterra-1701-market.html

Alterra Property Group is nearing a deal to acquire 1701 Market St. with plans to convert the longtime Morgan Lewis & Bockius headquarters building into apartments, according to industry sources.

The 305,170-square-foot property in the heart of the Central Business District has been up for sale as Morgan Lewis plans to vacate the entire space and move five blocks west into a new 19-story building at 2222 Market St. in 2023.

The 18-story 1701 Market building is owned by an entity affiliated with LXP Industrial Trust (NYSE: LXP), previously known as Lexington Realty Trust. The New York company rebranded last year as it sheds its office portfolio to focus solely on industrial properties.

Hey I can live even closer to my office!

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

I'd rather see the building knocked down, but an apartment conversion is a big deal for West Market Street.

Alterra Property Group nears deal to acquire 1701 Market St., soon to be vacated by Morgan Lewis

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/news/2022/12/15/alterra-1701-market.html

Alterra Property Group is nearing a deal to acquire 1701 Market St. with plans to convert the longtime Morgan Lewis & Bockius headquarters building into apartments, according to industry sources.

The 305,170-square-foot property in the heart of the Central Business District has been up for sale as Morgan Lewis plans to vacate the entire space and move five blocks west into a new 19-story building at 2222 Market St. in 2023.

The 18-story 1701 Market building is owned by an entity affiliated with LXP Industrial Trust (NYSE: LXP), previously known as Lexington Realty Trust. The New York company rebranded last year as it sheds its office portfolio to focus solely on industrial properties.

I'd like to see it go too, but more residential on W Market will encourage after-hours businesses, which are sorely lacking between Arch and Chestnut.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by summersm343

I would rather it torn down and replaced with something taller as well... but if they're doing a residential conversion then I'm OK with that too as long as they reclad it. It needs a recladding. No way they can leave as-is.... it's so unapologetically an office building from the 1950s

I used to work for Conrail. It was our headquarters, and the Penn Central's and Pennsy's before that. The only redeeming thing about that building was the old PRR boardroom, with original Grif Teller artwork. I'm sure that's long gone.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

What? People will come early to eat out, stay late to eat or have a drink.

Also, I'm not "people" I never said anything about the Convention Center I said compare it to BARCLAYS CENTER IN BROOKLYN.

This conversation is numbing my brain.

"Surge" events may seem like a gimic to you but they are pure profit events for business owners. Retailers generally make their years depending on the outcome of "surge" events like holidays etc. There's an old saying that the retailers generally don't become profitable until Thanksgiving/Black Friday. That's not exactly true, but the point is the additional revenue due to that one 'event' is what can get a retailer over the top for the year.

It actually boggles my mind that the community is fighting this. This development will be EXCEPTIONALLY beneficial for Chinatown's business owners.

In fact, they probably stand to benefit more than anyone else out of this entire thing.

It doesn't surprise me that it's the Chinese Business Associations that didn't attend that event. Their heads seem to be on straight.

I don't get the negativity either. It adds more and frequent activity to the mix, even if not daily. Even in the burbs, pizza shops do better on the weekends and offer incentives on Tuesday nights, etc. Ebb and flow is the way service business roll. It's even true for me as an attorney. Another attraction on Market East is only a positive. It's going to be hard to get a seat in the better Chinese places a few nights per week, because folks are going to have an alternative to overpriced rubber pretzels. As for more towers, the Sixers should put pads on their roof too. Why wouldn't they? Doesn't TD garden have "overbuild"?

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

Yeah, I thought everyone knew by now that the violence being committed toward Asians is largely being perpetrated by vagrants and low lifes. Probably not ticket paying sixers fan. I’m sorry, but that is just an insane excuse.

Yea, I'm lost on that one...
And how many shootings and robberies at the Fashion District this year?...
Yet a planned Sixers Arena will lead to increased crime and Asian hate?...

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Redddog

In the end, the 76s can do whatever the hell they want, no?

Yes

The uproar here is so comically misplaced it's ridiculous.

It's coming from suburbanites who claim to love Philadelphia but really just want to protect their ability to drive in and drive out. That is, they think of Philadelphia as a pretty skyline, care only about the height of buildings and have a fetish about only that aspect of our city, and don't actually care about the health of this city day to day.

Someone needs to help these people understand. Or not. Like I said, the 76ers can do whatever they want, AFAIK.

Cheers to that.

Add to all of this, and this is not an inconsequential point. The fan base of the Sixers (and of the NBA generally) skews younger, browner, and more urban than the other major league sports. I say, let's build the stadium for them and not a bunch of middle aged white suburbanites who already hate Philadelphia.

If you wanna apply these arguments to "WHERE WILL THE FLYERS PLAY" than by all means, have them. For all I care, they Flyers could play in Wilmington Delaware if that's what makes these people happy. Even better, at Frankford and Cottman in the Northeast.

*end rant*

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Yes



It's coming from suburbanites who claim to love Philadelphia but really just want to protect their ability to drive in and drive out. That is, they think of Philadelphia as a pretty skyline, care only about the height of buildings and have a fetish about only that aspect of our city, and don't actually care about the health of this city day to day.



Cheers to that.

Add to all of this, and this is not an inconsequential point. The fan base of the Sixers (and of the NBA generally) skews younger, browner, and more urban than the other major league sports. I say, let's build the stadium for them and not a bunch of middle aged white suburbanites who already hate Philadelphia.

If you wanna apply these arguments to "WHERE WILL THE FLYERS PLAY" than by all means, have them. For all I care, they Flyers could play in Wilmington Delaware if that's what makes these people happy. Even better, at Frankford and Cottman in the Northeast.

*end rant*

It's interesting because sports started in North Philadelphia in an area where most people are scared to go now, sports in South Philly is a very new thing.

Where was the up roar when it was moved out of North Philly, Oh yea thats right, it was an undesirable area so it didn't matter.

Another point, If the Liberty complex was proposed to be built today, the push back would be so crazy, we would hear all this crap about how it will kill Walnut St, Market St & Chestnut.

It will kill the skyline, and cause all this traffic and how there will be NO PARKING.

The nimbyism in the city is insane, I think most major projects should ignore certain "crys for destruction" just like they did when they build the towers that changed Philadelphia forever.

Thats why this city stagnated for so long, because all good projects are numbed to death or pulled back due to extra B/S

[TonyTone]

Shit im tripping guys sorry, I forgot the Panda Express on Market St is an extension of Chinatown, my bad cancel the project.

Market st IS Chinatown

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

https://www.dsedov.io/src/slb.pdf

good read about sports facility, especially a basketball stadium and its effects to local businesses.

I'll give it a read, but I think it's important to distinguish between an arena (18,000ppl) and a stadium (80,000). People lump them together to try and win this argument: "stadium's kill downtowns" etc.

I also think it's important to point out that 18,000 people coming and going isn't mass chaos on the streets. It's basically the equivalent of 3 skyscrapers letting out workers at 5pm (Pre-Covid). Something that a city like Philadelphia handles in spades. And with underground transit access a huge % of these people will never actually emerge into the great outdoors.

[skyhigh07]

I was initially somewhat sympathetic to the community’s concerns regarding the stadium’s impact on the area but I think after last night’s meeting, the developers should tell the opposition groups to go pound sand and move ahead in spite of them. These groups are being self centered and unreasonable. The developers have made an effort to hear their concerns and offer compromises, but it sounds like they were booed and shouted down last night. Of course I would be upset if this development threatened to level half of Chinatown but that’s clearly not the case - it’s not even in Chinatown.

Build it. It’ll be a lot harder for them to resist when there’s cranes going up.

[Mtphilly]

I’m completely baffled by the arguments against this. We’ve seen in almost every city that when a downtown arena is built, it revitalizes or improves the surrounding neighborhood. We don’t have to speculate here, we’ve seen that it’s had a net positive effect in most cities.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

I was initially somewhat sympathetic to the community’s concerns regarding the stadium’s impact on the area but I think after last night’s meeting, the developers should tell the opposition groups to go pound sand and move ahead in spite of them. These groups are being self centered and unreasonable. The developers have made an effort to hear their concerns and offer compromises, but it sounds like they were booed and shouted down last night. Of course I would be upset if this development threatened to level half of Chinatown but that’s clearly not the case - it’s not even in Chinatown.

Build it. It’ll be a lot harder for them to resist when there’s cranes going up.

Reminds me of the University City Townhomes saga. A plan originally met with some concern and reasonable criticisms has since exploded into a full blown social justice movement, fueled by misinformation and over the top emotions.

[AnEmperorPenguin]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

Reminds me of the University City Townhomes saga. A plan originally met with some concern and reasonable criticisms has since exploded into a full blown social justice movement, fueled by misinformation and over the top emotions.

I think the "bright" side is that like the townhomes thing the meeting was only attended by hardcore NIMBYs who are not "the community" no matter how much they say they are. I heard the groups the 76ers originally approached didn't show up to scream at them so for now it sounds like there are at least a few reasonable people around

[SEFTA]

If it does happen, I hope it sits above street level retail. Keeping the street active w or w/o an event

[PhillyRising]

The Sixers Arena would have good synergy with the Convention Center. Political Conventions would be a no brainer with the arena and the CC housing the whole event. I would think some big conventions would rent out the arena for something. Also, it would allow more big concerts in Philadelphia at the same time. It would make for a very great event center for Center City that you just won' get in the Sports Complex.

I was kind of sad when this was first announced because I think it's great that Philly has a one stop sports complex that no other city has...but I like the idea of two arenas. I never thought the Spectrum should be torn down. I still think that was a mistake.

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

As for more towers, the Sixers should put pads on their roof too. Why wouldn't they? Doesn't TD garden have "overbuild"?

TD Garden has a large attached complex with towers that works as an entrance to the arena, but nothing above the arena itself.

[jaysb]

Originally Posted by PhillyRising

The Sixers Arena would have good synergy with the Convention Center. Political Conventions would be a no brainer with the arena and the CC housing the whole event. I would think some big conventions would rent out the arena for something. Also, it would allow more big concerts in Philadelphia at the same time. It would make for a very great event center for Center City that you just won' get in the Sports Complex.

.

Great point , That didn’t cross my mind.

[PurpleWhiteOut]

Walnut Street Properties Destroyed by Arson Sold. Tower on the Horizon?

Finally some signs of movement on the Walnut arson parcels. All three sold to an unnamed NY based company.