Downtown Ottawa Revitalization Initiatives

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Spoonsy

okay so you just straight up have some bizarre vendetta against federal employees. noted

No, just the ones not doing any work, or doing work that could be done in a more efficient way.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by acottawa

The Federal Government doesn't otherwise have that policy. It procures all sorts of goods and services that originate overseas. Why are bureaucrats sacred? I think taxpayers would prefer the service be done for a much lower cost.

I think it does overwhelmingly favor domestic producers. Navy ships for example.

The bureaucrats you are describing are making policy or enforcing it. You really think foreign workers can do any of that? I mean is any country outsourcing their federal bureaucracy? If it was remotely possible I don't discount it entirely but don't see it.

[Spoonsy]

Originally Posted by acottawa

The Federal Government doesn't otherwise have that policy. It procures all sorts of goods and services that originate overseas. Why are bureaucrats sacred? I think taxpayers would prefer the service be done for a much lower cost.

where did you buy your crystal ball. you know what federal employees are up and what all taxpayers are thinking. incredible. personally, as an empathetic human, i think tHe tAxPaYeRs would rather have their tax go to an employee (AKA a neighbour) who spent maybe 15 minutes of his day dicking around on skyscraperpage and who is later going to go out and spend his federal salary on local goods and services in ottawa, rather than ship their tax dollars overseas to areas less forgiving labour practices, those dollars never to return to canadian pockets

i hope your 10,000 posts were all made outside work hours lest someone try to offshore your job

[YOWflier]

I really hope anyone holding an Ottawa/NCR job pre-COVID and moved away during COVID isn’t accommodated at another location.

I also hope any remote person on-boarded to an Ottawa/NCR job during COVID but didn’t relocate isn’t accommodated at another location.

I know a person in each category. Sorry not sorry. Nothing personal.

[AuxTown]

Originally Posted by FlyYOW

I really hope anyone holding an Ottawa/NCR job pre-COVID and moved away during COVID isn’t accommodated at another location.

I also hope any remote person on-boarded to an Ottawa/NCR job during COVID but didn’t relocate isn’t accommodated at another location.

I know a person in each category. Sorry not sorry. Nothing personal.

This is a BIG issue. I have 4 or 5 patients who moved out to the "country" in 2020 thinking they would never have to come back to work. Now they fight return to in-person work based on safety concerns and baseless worries about long-term COVID impacts.

It should be up to the managers and DGs etc. to decide who goes back to in-person work and for what %age of the week. Why any employee thinks they can call the shots here is ridiculous and kind of gross. No one should have to work in an unsafe workplace, but that's not what we are talking about here. 10 years from now this will all be settled and some positions may become 100% virtual but, in the meantime, it's up to those in charge to decide what is appropriate/efficient/desirable.

Just heard some idiot on CFRA trying to make an argument for not returning to in-person work. Said many employees have toxic workplaces and shouldn't have to return.....

[DarthVader_1961]

As a federal employee.. I can confirm some of this…

Reduction in office space gas begun.

1. 875 Heron is to be emptied, if not already done, so renovations can begin.

2. Of the 4 CRA buildings in Bells corners, 3 have been let go. The fourth is being outfitted so people can use a desk/meeting rooms on an addiction basis. No more assigned desks.

The area I work in has been told about hybrid options and some like it, others don’t.

Interesting times ahead.

[Skyway]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The funny thing if we think Work from Home is great, think about the customer. I tried to contact my investment councillor and I was told he was working from home. There was no patch to connect to him, ie I could not call him directly or have my call transferred. I was going to have to wait for a call back. Thankfully, the assistant was able to address my needs, but .........................

I contacted my investment councilor after settling my brother's estate and there was no way I was not meeting in person. That was his first visit to his office (major bank) overlooking downtown Ottawa in quite some time. I am surprised many clients accept phone calls and video conferencing when discussing their investments.

[YOWflier]

Originally Posted by AuxTown

This is a BIG issue. I have 4 or 5 patients who moved out to the "country" in 2020 thinking they would never have to come back to work. Now they fight return to in-person work based on safety concerns and baseless worries about long-term COVID impacts.

It should be up to the managers and DGs etc. to decide who goes back to in-person work and for what %age of the week. Why any employee thinks they can call the shots here is ridiculous and kind of gross. No one should have to work in an unsafe workplace, but that's not what we are talking about here. 10 years from now this will all be settled and some positions may become 100% virtual but, in the meantime, it's up to those in charge to decide what is appropriate/efficient/desirable.

Just heard some idiot on CFRA trying to make an argument for not returning to in-person work. Said many employees have toxic workplaces and shouldn't have to return.....

I know someone in Toronto who got a job “here” just before COVID hit. Was gearing up to relocate, looking to buy a house, etc., and halted all that due to telework. Now she just wants to stay put; if they accommodate her at some Toronto office when the order drops I’ll be pissed.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Spoonsy

where did you buy your crystal ball. you know what federal employees are up and what all taxpayers are thinking. incredible. personally, as an empathetic human, i think tHe tAxPaYeRs would rather have their tax go to an employee (AKA a neighbour) who spent maybe 15 minutes of his day dicking around on skyscraperpage and who is later going to go out and spend his federal salary on local goods and services in ottawa, rather than ship their tax dollars overseas to areas less forgiving labour practices, those dollars never to return to canadian pockets

i hope your 10,000 posts were all made outside work hours lest someone try to offshore your job

From the people I know virtually and in person even in Ottawa they could care less if all Civil Servants are fired if it doesn't impact service level. There is a huge jealousy which to me doesn't make sense as other than low skilled people they seem to be underpaid if anything. Managers are working for relatively poverty wages.

[originalmuffins]

"If I'm miserable then public servants and all office workers should be too. How dare they have positions with good worklife balance from remote work (aka no commutes and more flexibility). Force them back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[Admiral Nelson]

Originally Posted by originalmuffins

"If I'm miserable then public servants and all office workers should be too. How dare they have positions with good worklife balance from remote work (aka no commutes and more flexibility). Force them back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

I agree. Performance measures are nowhere to be found substantiating the need for inflexible RTO.

So we have optics-driven public policy aimed at placating the Postmedia-reading crowd who think people don't work at home - projection of their own work ethic, perhaps?

Pretty sad to see dinosaurs calling for a reversal of a broadly successful telework regime that could save a fortune in public money on real estate that could be put to programs that matter to Canadians. A stupid amount of carbon emissions and gridlock to (1) make people 'feel like' the PS is working better, and (2) sustain some mediocre eateries downtown that close at 2pm.

[originalmuffins]

Originally Posted by Admiral Nelson

I agree. Performance measures are nowhere to be found substantiating the need for inflexible RTO.

So we have optics-driven public policy aimed at placating the Postmedia-reading crowd who think people don't work at home - projection of their own work ethic, perhaps?

Pretty sad to see dinosaurs calling for a reversal of a broadly successful telework regime that could save a fortune in public money on real estate that could be put to programs that matter to Canadians. A stupid amount of carbon emissions and gridlock to (1) make people 'feel like' the PS is working better, and (2) sustain some mediocre eateries downtown that close at 2pm.

Dinosaur mentalities for people who don't understand better. What can you expect? It's this mentality that is causing strife.

Instead of complaining that PS workers have good perks and worker's rights, maybe we need to do the same for the rest of the workforce. Europe does it, they also do better at densification and public transportation, but no let's keep this dinosaur backwards facade going.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

I think it does overwhelmingly favor domestic producers. Navy ships for example.

The bureaucrats you are describing are making policy or enforcing it. You really think foreign workers can do any of that? I mean is any country outsourcing their federal bureaucracy? If it was remotely possible I don't discount it entirely but don't see it.

The military is exempt from procurement rules, but even they procure most stuff overseas. IT services and equipment are mostly provided by foreign companies, office supplies and equipment are mostly provided by foreign companies, vehicles are mostly provided by foreign companies.

If they are actually making and enforcing policy they almost certainly need access to sensitive IT and documents, which they can’t bring home (legally anyway) so they are probably in the office at least some of the time already. The people that work from home permanently, or work from Toronto, Costs Rica, etc. are more than likely doing unclassified administrative work or some sort of research and analysis, which in many cases could be contracted out (they have more or less proven it by their actions).

[YOWflier]

In areas where a Ministerial delegation of authority (to non-Gov workers or authorized companies employing them) framework exists, e.g. Civil Aviation type design approvals, we already allow non-Canadians and even people living offshore to do that work.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Admiral Nelson

Pretty sad to see dinosaurs calling for a reversal of a broadly successful telework regime that could save a fortune in public money on real estate that could be put to programs that matter to Canadians. A stupid amount of carbon emissions and gridlock to (1) make people 'feel like' the PS is working better, and (2) sustain some mediocre eateries downtown that close at 2pm.

It’s too bad that we are going down this road again where differing opinions are ridiculed and mocked. Is this because this is clearly such a simple issue that there is only one right opinion?

I don’t work in the PS, but I’m going to call you on this “broadly successful” claim. What empirical evidence do you have for that? Because I can tell you that I my (largely remote since covid) workforce, we are seeing all sorts of cracks lately, including productivity and performance issues, more mental health issues, lower engagement scores etc. We’ll be moving to more mandated in-office time in the new year based on those metrics.

I’d also like to see evidence on these claims of lower emissions. Has that actually been demonstrated? Are people driving less, or are they just commuting less? Are the people who used to take transit or who moved to suburban or rural areas now driving more? Any evidence to back up what you are saying?

[lrt's friend]

I am so thankful that I can see my doctor in person again. I don't have a lot of confidence that any medical problems can be dealt with properly by Zoom. An easy way to skip over things. Not that this would ever happen in other situations. I guess I should complain about the 'commute' to the doctor's office and the parking fee.

One also has to wonder about personal isolation issues with WFH, ie the lack of personal contact. There are a lot of single people out there.

[Admiral Nelson]

Originally Posted by phil235

It’s too bad that we are going down this road again where differing opinions are ridiculed and mocked.

How about we start our respectful dialogue by calling out statements that allege without evidence that public servants are slackers, lack integrity, and lack respect for the people for whom they work?

Is this because this is clearly such a simple issue that there is only one right opinion?

An opinion that Canada's public servants have been half-assing their jobs for nearly three years is not something that anyone on this board is likely to have been able to arrive at honestly. Unless anonymous anecdotes constitute evidence indicting a 250,000-strong workforce.

I don’t work in the PS, but I’m going to call you on this “broadly successful” claim. What empirical evidence do you have for that?

Where was your concern for evidence when others made wild claims that PS productivity had plunged? It seems to me the PS did a remarkable job transitioning to remote work. Services for Canadians were delivered. The single major example of PS dysfunction was the passport fiasco, which seems to have been a failure to anticipate staffing requirements when suddenly a chunk of the population remembered they liked to travel.

I’d also like to see evidence on these claims of lower emissions. Has that actually been demonstrated? Are people driving less, or are they just commuting less? Are the people who used to take transit or who moved to suburban or rural areas now driving more? Any evidence to back up what you are saying?

I can't speak to non-commuting travel patterns, but it's a pretty safe assumption that public servants who used to drive to work are not driving to work when teleworking.
And let us not forget that federal real estate has a huge carbon footprint, which we foreclose with increased RTO.

[YOWflier]

The article that started this discussion stated that “ Some estimate at least half – if not more – of the workers expected to show up at the office for a specific number of days are either not coming in or only partially complying.”

Non-compliance to the most generous of working conditions is a great way of getting “help” you didn’t want or ask for. I’d like to see a Venn diagram of rto complainants and those with poor compliance.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Admiral Nelson

How about we start our respectful dialogue by calling out statements that allege without evidence that public servants are slackers, lack integrity, and lack respect for the people for whom they work?



An opinion that Canada's public servants have been half-assing their jobs for nearly three years is not something that anyone on this board is likely to have been able to arrive at honestly. Unless anonymous anecdotes constitute evidence indicting a 250,000-strong workforce.



Where was your concern for evidence when others made wild claims that PS productivity had plunged? It seems to me the PS did a remarkable job transitioning to remote work. Services for Canadians were delivered. The single major example of PS dysfunction was the passport fiasco, which seems to have been a failure to anticipate staffing requirements when suddenly a chunk of the population remembered they liked to travel.



I can't speak to non-commuting travel patterns, but it's a pretty safe assumption that public servants who used to drive to work are not driving to work when teleworking.
And let us not forget that federal real estate has a huge carbon footprint, which we foreclose with increased RTO.

Or how about we start by not calling people names? Seems like a pretty basic starting point for a reasonable discussion.

Sure, I don’t disagree that those statements are equally unhelpful. Public servants have clearly been working, and in many cases working much harder these past two years. I think you misunderstood. I’m in no way supporting any suggestion that public servants are half-assing their jobs. I’m just questioning the assertion that people have been more productive working remotely. I haven’t seen much to back up that claim, and I have direct experience that suggests the opposite.

As for the carbon footprint, same question. Sure employees aren’t commuting, but are they actually driving less? I have my doubts, but again, I haven’t seen any actual data to back that up.

You have a point on the environmental footprint of federal real estate. I just wonder about the offset caused by more energy use in individual homes. And it’s not like the government can shed all or even most of its real estate. I’m just wondering if the savings may not be what they are cracked up to be.

[OTSkyline]

Looking forward to seeing what the guidelines are and how they are implemented. Right now it's a complete 🞵🞵🞵🞵 show and wildly differs by department. I know some who are go in once a week right now with talks of going twice a week after the break. I also know others who grudgingly show up to the office once a month... and still complain.

I still believe in a hybrid world and flexibility when it comes to working from home if sick or in case of appointments or whatnot, but the "return to normal" or a more balanced approach needs to start somewhere. There will never be an optimal time to return back to the office, people will always complain and most would be happy to stay home forever if they had the choice. Those are so adamant about working exclusively from home can look at alternative jobs or positions that will allow them to do so and are advertised as such instead of feeling they are owed the luxury.