Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I don't favour street closures on an ongoing basis in most cases. But, street closures for specific events, usually on weekends and holidays I applaud. It makes our city a more lively and interesting place. If we have segregated transit that does not get disrupted by these events, we will be encouraging transit use and more attendance. Also, if we can keep the city moving, more such events are likely to take place.

It would be a lot more applaudable if there was any consideration at all for the transit users and trips that get disrupted.

But there isn't.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

It might not need to have only cars on its surface, but it absolutely needs to have transit on its surface, and that transit needs to have priority in how that street is used. There is no alternative.



The problem is it's on too many occasions, and the mitigation measures for transit users are both grudging and —. I don't know why this city and its transit authority are always so keen to disrupt the principle transit service for the most transit-friendly and transit-dependent neighbourhoods, and to do so in a way that greatly inconveniences those best transit customers.



Or street parties. Have them on Albert.

What is the fixation of Bank St?

[Nowhere]

The trains sure go faster in the straight section between Cyrville and St-Laurent. Still as slow between St-Laurent and Lees.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Nowhere

The trains sure go faster in the straight section between Cyrville and St-Laurent. Still as slow between St-Laurent and Lees.

My experience yesterday was that the faster sections were very short, measured in just seconds. I was going from downtown to Hurdman. I found that dwell times at stations were surprisingly long which lengthened my short trip noticeably. Overall, my experience yesterday was good, with short waits where I transferred, but I expect that it was just good luck.

In yesterday's pouring rain, it really demonstrated how poorly Hurdman station is designed. There is not continuous weather protection. Rain was blowing into the stairs going up to the platform, the rail platform is not fully weather protected (why?) so you have to walk from the stairs to the platform in the pouring rain. Going the other way is worse. The walk to the bus platforms is not fully weather protected. You exit the station into the rain before you reach the crappy temporary covered walkway. Unfortunately, trying to correct some of these inadequacies, like the lack of weather protection on the rail platform will be exceedingly expensive to correct. As has been pointed out, building to fit the budget created some corner cutting such as this. Too bad. For a system that was to serve us well for 50 years or more, it is clear that we will regret the excessive corner cutting.

[rocketphish]

FYI: I have moved about a hundred posts from this thread over to the Ottawa LRT Public Inquiry thread, if you happen to be looking for something and now can't find it.

[OTownandDown]

Do you think maybe it was impossible for OC Transpo and RTG to collaborate enough to get the bus loop to run around the elevated line rather than adjacent?

I've always wondered why the bus stops are outside of the natural overhead protection that the elevated line provides... Simply running the bus loop down the east side of the line, and up the west side would have simplified quite a bit of the rain/protection issues, and also the 500m walk that some people need to take, just to get to their bus stop/from their bus stop. Heck, there's even a cut in the berm at the north-east corner for a bike path, which would have been perfect. Perhaps the cut is a remnant of the first design which would have included a bus loop?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

Do you think maybe it was impossible for OC Transpo and RTG to collaborate enough to get the bus loop to run around the elevated line rather than adjacent?

I've always wondered why the bus stops are outside of the natural overhead protection that the elevated line provides... Simply running the bus loop down the east side of the line, and up the west side would have simplified quite a bit of the rain/protection issues, and also the 500m walk that some people need to take, just to get to their bus stop/from their bus stop. Heck, there's even a cut in the berm at the north-east corner for a bike path, which would have been perfect. Perhaps the cut is a remnant of the first design which would have included a bus loop?

I agree, it would have been better to have the bus loop around the station. They could have/should have fully enclosed the concourse and provide a proper heated waiting area with benches. Alas, I highly doubt the City/RTG would be willing to make improvements beyond the scaffolding. Even the improvements announced for Blair 2-3 years ago have yet to materialized.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I agree, it would have been better to have the bus loop around the station. They could have/should have fully enclosed the concourse and provide a proper heated waiting area with benches. Alas, I highly doubt the City/RTG would be willing to make improvements beyond the scaffolding. Even the improvements announced for Blair 2-3 years ago have yet to materialized.

I find it strange how rebuilding Hurdman Station at tremendous expense produced a much worse design. The old bus loop station was so much more convenient for transfers, with better weather protection and much shorter walks. It was also so much easier to navigate.

Now, when you get off the train at the end of the train which produces the shortest walks, you get little or no information on the correct bus platform and next bus departure times. It is so confusing. I had made a simple suggestion to make the bus platform signs regarding bus route numbers easier to see from a distance. The bus shelters obscure those signs, which make them impossible to read until you actually walk past the shelters. Bad design that would be reasonably easy to fix. Three years and no improvements.

It is quite obvious that nobody involved in designing stations actually used transit at the various stations.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

Do you think maybe it was impossible for OC Transpo and RTG to collaborate enough to get the bus loop to run around the elevated line rather than adjacent?

I've always wondered why the bus stops are outside of the natural overhead protection that the elevated line provides... Simply running the bus loop down the east side of the line, and up the west side would have simplified quite a bit of the rain/protection issues, and also the 500m walk that some people need to take, just to get to their bus stop/from their bus stop. Heck, there's even a cut in the berm at the north-east corner for a bike path, which would have been perfect. Perhaps the cut is a remnant of the first design which would have included a bus loop?

Big-picture design like the general layout of the station/bus loop was done before the contract with RTG was signed, so it's not related. Past the construction, maintenance of the bus loops is OC Transpo's responsibility as well, so they could decide to change it up in the future. Something more drastic like relocating shelters under the guideway may be more challenging.

The bridge at the first curve east of Hurdman is for a future road extension.

[Richard Eade]

That is a nonsensical response. Many of the elements of the LRT/transit design were planned before the RTG contract was signed. The City tried to develop their plan to a stage that it could be bid on – including general station layouts. Once the bidders knew what they had to do – in big-picture, broad strokes – they could bid. Had the Hurdman big-picture design included a bus loop around the LRT station’s base, then that is what would have been bid on.

In my view, the current overall design of the Hurdman bus loop stems from a fear of island stations for buses.

In the early days of the old island Hurdman bus station, things flowed fairly well. The buses entered the station by crossing the outgoing lane, circled the loop, and left by crossing the lane of incoming buses. The station was convenient for customers transferring from one route to another, as all of the stops were on the island, and both sides of the island was used. The island arrangement made the station moderately compact so a single shelter could easily cover the entire length.

One of the problems with the island design was that ‘walk-ins’ had to get to the island to catch their bus. This meant that they needed to cross the path of the looping buses. This slowed the buses, but it was not a major issue, as long as there were large gaps between buses.

As more and more buses were added to the station, the gaps between buses decreased – so much so that the crisscrossing of the opposite lane of buses began to ‘grid-lock’ the station. Add in the ‘walk-ins’ also trying to cross the bus path and the flow breaks down totally.

The Hurdman situation has led OC Transpo to dismiss any island stations for buses out of hand. This is why the ‘Temporary’ Baseline Station was not designed as an island. Despite Baseline being originally designed as an island, and despite it not having the same issues of grid-lock, replacing the original island with a new island was out of the question. Thus, Baseline became an overly long side-platform station with limited opportunities for customers to cross from one side to the other. The new design was primarily designed to permit minimal restriction of the bus flow – with little regard to customer use.

So, putting the new Hurdman bus loop around the base of the elevated LRT station would have created an island station. Yes, it would have been more compact; making it more convenient for customers. Yes, it would have been partially covered by the LRT guideway; making it more weather protected for customers. However, it would have been a dreaded island station; thus, it was a ‘NO-GO’ right from the beginning. Buses would have had to cross lanes, and ‘walk-ins’ would have to cross the bus path. This was Hurdman Station. There was no way they were going to repeat past mistakes by designing another island station. The buses must flow with as little restriction as possible.

It did not occur to the planner, it seems, that virtually all of the west-east Transitway buses were being removed and replaced by the grade-separated train. The idea that, perhaps, the remaining buses could easily use an island station without grid-lock, did not seem to be considered. The fact that the linear stop layout was much less convenient for customers, did not seem to be considered.

You will, no doubt, have noticed that the bus loop is even pushed south-west as far as it can be – further lengthening the walk required by customers. This was, likely, done to prevent ‘walk-ins’ from crossing the path of buses from the SE Transitway. Pedestrians are only permitted to cross to the station outside of the eastern end of the bus loop.

I can understand the point: If the buses are clogged up in grid-lock, then the service is terrible and ridership plummets. However, there is another side of the coin: If the environment for using the buses is so arduous, then potential customers will not use it. There needs to be a balance. I do not think that the designs of Ottawa’s major LRT stations gets that balance right.

[lrt's friend]

Interestingly, while at Hurdman Station the other day, I watched a lady struggling to find her way out of station, probably destined for one of the nearby apartment buildings. Where she was walking, was right on the Transitway with no sidewalks, and the adjacent sidewalk was completely blocked off.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Interestingly, while at Hurdman Station the other day, I watched a lady struggling to find her way out of station, probably destined for one of the nearby apartment buildings. Where she was walking, was right on the Transitway with no sidewalks, and the adjacent sidewalk was completely blocked off.

It speaks to the fact that the ones constructing transit tend not to use transit.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

What is the fixation of Bank St?

That's where the north-south urban transit axis is, should be, and needs to be, and it's really crappy to constantly put the disruption of public events on the transit users who rely on it.

Glad to be of help.

[DarthVader_1961]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

That's where the north-south urban transit axis is, should be, and needs to be, and it's really crappy to constantly put the disruption of public events on the transit users who rely on it.

Glad to be of help.

Not to mention the on street parking in the Glèbe that causes buses to be delayed.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

That's where the north-south urban transit axis is, should be, and needs to be, and it's really crappy to constantly put the disruption of public events on the transit users who rely on it.

Glad to be of help.

What exactly is there now and why is it such an important corridor?

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

What exactly is there now and why is it such an important corridor?

Come on. Bank Street is Ottawa's main street, and Ottawa's longest retail corridor, and includes many intensification projects, recently completed, under construction or proposed, as well as Lansdowne Park, where Ottawa's stadium and Junior A arena are located.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Come on. Bank Street is Ottawa's main street, and Ottawa's longest retail corridor, and includes many intensification projects, recently completed, under construction or proposed, as well as Lansdowne Park, where Ottawa's stadium and Junior A arena are located.

Thank you, this explanation was more what I was looking for.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

What exactly is there now and why is it such an important corridor?

Several thousand homes, places of employment, and third places directly on Bank, even more just off it, and it's the only north-south connection directly into the core that also crosses the two urban waterways. You know, the exact kind of built form and right of way alignment that needs, and supports, public transit.

Once again, I am glad to be of assistance.

[daud]

You can add non working emergency buttons to the revolving list of LRT issues now.

this incident is horrible and while a working emergency button may not have changed the outcome for the victim, it may have helped catch the attacker.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/comments/zgi3jm/random_violent_assault_on_the_lrt_tonight/

I don't know why or how the emergency button wasn't working on the LRT last night but I really hope someone takes ownership and responsibility to deliver a safe and working solution.

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by daud

You can add non working emergency buttons to the revolving list of LRT issues now.

this incident is horrible and while a working emergency button may not have changed the outcome for the victim, it may have helped catch the attacker.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/comments/zgi3jm/random_violent_assault_on_the_lrt_tonight/

I don't know why or how the emergency button wasn't working on the LRT last night but I really hope someone takes ownership and responsibility to deliver a safe and working solution.

Brutal. At least they got the guy...



O-Train safety under scrutiny after alleged assault
Charges laid after Thursday night incident, city says

Natalia Goodwin · CBC News
Posted: Dec 09, 2022 2:43 PM ET | Last Updated: 2 hours ago

The City of Ottawa says criminal charges have been laid after an alleged assault against a passenger aboard the Confederation Line train on Thursday.

In an emailed statement Friday afternoon, the city said a male was charged but did not list specific charges or the age of the accused.

"We cannot comment further on the incident as it is currently under criminal investigation," said the city's statement.

The public transit service said late Thursday night on social media that it was aware of and investigating a "serious incident." A witness told CBC it happened while the train was heading west from uOttawa to Rideau station.

Ottawa police said in a statement that its officers attended a scene on Rideau Street at about 6:16 p.m. Thursday, but that OC Transpo special constables — who also responded to the call — had taken over the investigation.

Special constables are peace officers with the authority to arrest people and lay charges under the Criminal Code and provincial or municipal acts — as long as the alleged incidents occur on properties or vehicles owned, operated or leased by OC Transpo.

Jonathan Loan said he witnessed the incident.

He told CBC he heard a man yelling something about people touching him or doing something to him, "and he just started punching [the victim] in the face and kicking him" while they were both standing.

"It was pretty paranoid and incoherent-sounding ... And then it just became apparent pretty quickly that the victim was a total stranger and it was just like an unprovoked attack," Loan said.

Loan pushed the train's emergency intercom button as soon as he saw the attack happening, but there was no response, he said.

"It was just a dial tone," he said. "I was pretty surprised and nervous when nobody picked up."

The city said the emergency intercom on the train was functional, but an internal investigation has been launched to review the incident "against our standard operating procedures."

"We can assure our customers that their concerns are being treated with the respect and seriousness they deserve," the city added.

Customers who feel unsafe can call 911, contact special constables at 613-741-2478 or approach the constable or OC Transpo employee, while victims or witnesses of a crime on transit property can report incidents online or by calling 613-741-2478.

When the emergency intercom button is pushed, a ring is supposed to sound in the operator's cab. It's unclear what specifically happened in this case, and the city did not provide further details.

Kari Glynes Elliott, a board member of the advocacy group Ottawa Transit Riders, said OC Transpo needs to come out sooner with more specific information about incidents.

Glynes Elliott also said an explainer video on how the intercom button system works would he helpful.

"Right now the public really doesn't know and doesn't have a lot of faith that OC Transpo knows what they're doing, either," she said.

As Thursday evening's attack unfolded, passengers ran down the train in panic, Loan said.

"I don't know how long the attack lasted, maybe like 30 seconds ... and I think some people managed to get the victim away from the attacker," he said.

A short time later the train reached Rideau station and the attacker ran out and up the escalator, yelling the whole time, Loan recalled.

After sitting down on the train for a moment to collect himself, Loan said the victim — who was "bleeding heavily" — was helped off the train by bystanders to get first-aid treatment at Rideau Centre mall.

CBC contacted the sister of the victim Friday after she posted about the incident online. She said her brother was shaken by what happened and didn't want to be publicly identified. Out of respect for his wishes, the family also didn't want to be identified.

She said her brother went to the hospital for treatment and he needed stitches on his head. He was upset by the incident and was recovering at home, she added.

The family is "livid that there was no one on board to help him," she said, but she is "thankful" special constables arrived minutes after a bystander alerted security, and the train came to a stop.

Cameras on the train helped identify the suspect and a warrant was issued just hours later, she added.

Rideau Transit Group, which maintains Ottawa's LRT system, said it was looking into what happened and that an initial assessment indicated the system performed as designed.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-lrt-assault-allegation-dec-8-2022-1.6680373