Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport (YOW/CYOW) 1.0

[Truenorth00]

If that's the business we're competing for, it's going to be a tough sell. Ottawa is never going to have the connectivity that Toronto or Montreal does. And a handful of long haul flights isn't going to change much for execs who are extremely focused on connectivity.

This is in part why I want a much tighter train connection to Dorval. It would make long haul traveling to/from Ottawa far less of a chore. And between domestic and transborder from YOW and long haul from YUL, there should be no excuses about connectivity from Ottawa.

[Tesladom]

I made this point before, the Government should mandate this and ensure profitability for direct connections to Ottawa - as the seat of the Federal Government - it is important to have direct connections to major hub markets in NA (3x dailies to Boston, NYC & Newark, Washington, Atlanta, Chicago) and direct daily connections to at least London and Frankfurt.

[sgera]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

If that's the business we're competing for, it's going to be a tough sell. Ottawa is never going to have the connectivity that Toronto or Montreal does. And a handful of long haul flights isn't going to change much for execs who are extremely focused on connectivity.

This is in part why I want a much tighter train connection to Dorval. It would make long haul traveling to/from Ottawa far less of a chore. And between domestic and transborder from YOW and long haul from YUL, there should be no excuses about connectivity from Ottawa.

High speed & High frequency train to YUL for international/Transborder flights perhaps with a train station at YOW would make a lot of sense....i guess the feds have announced something that's under study right now...maybe it will happen in ten years...i presume there will be a lot of lobbying against it from the airlines to protect the Windsor-QC corridor for domestic flights.

Thinking back to Mirabel airport...wasn't the location of Mirabel on the A50 (which is only getting twinned / completed now to Montreal 40 yrs later)...the original plan...to serve Ottawa-Gatineau and Montreal? guess the location sucked for Montreal'ers...

[fanofYOW]

Porter’s website just changed to reflect YYZ as a destination. As expected YVR is the first destination from YYZ and it’s the only one right now with options to connect to and from YOW and YUL. What I find strange is there is no option for Halifax to do YHZ - YOW - YYZ - YVR. I mean it’s a massive hassle but they don’t even give that option. Mind you, I’m doing a quick search from my phone so I may have missed stuff.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

Porter’s website just changed to reflect YYZ as a destination. As expected YVR is the first destination from YYZ and it’s the only one right now with options to connect to and from YOW and YUL. What I find strange is there is no option for Halifax to do YHZ - YOW - YYZ - YVR. I mean it’s a massive hassle but they don’t even give that option. Mind you, I’m doing a quick search from my phone so I may have missed stuff.

The jet age is beginning for Porter. Here's what someone else found:
YOW-YYZ 4x daily
YUL-YYZ 3x daily, increasing to 4x daily a bit later
YVR-YYZ 1x daily, increasing to 3x daily in the summer

Honestly this is a sensible schedule to begin with and hey not only does YOW factor into the inaugural day, it's got the most frequency to start, which is a good sign for the future.

First flight is on 02FEB23. Here's the full YOW schedule:

Toronto – Ottawa eff 02FEB23 4 daily Embraer E195-E2
PD155 YYZ0655 – 0800YOW 295 D
PD169 YYZ1355 – 1500YOW 295 D
PD179 YYZ1755 – 1900YOW 295 x3
PD185 YYZ1915 – 2020YOW 295 3
PD191 YYZ2220 – 2325YOW 295 D

PD150 YOW0740 – 0858YYZ 295 D
PD156 YOW0920 – 1038YYZ 295 D
PD170 YOW1555 – 1713YYZ 295 D
PD182 YOW2010 – 2128YYZ 295 x3
PD188 YOW2110 – 2228YYZ 295 3

You can already see the future frequency increases with the gaps between flight numbers.

Here's the rest: https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/221208-pdfeb23

[Calfan12]

Originally Posted by Tesladom

I made this point before, the Government should mandate this and ensure profitability for direct connections to Ottawa - as the seat of the Federal Government - it is important to have direct connections to major hub markets in NA (3x dailies to Boston, NYC & Newark, Washington, Atlanta, Chicago) and direct daily connections to at least London and Frankfurt.

No, it’s not up to Government of Canada to force direct connections/ flights through Ottawa YOW.

The passengers demand will decide it & also up to the Airlines to plan whatever flights they operate!

[Dominion301]

Hey this should also mean the first ever connecting passengers at YOW for PD. YFC, YQM, YHZ & YYT to/from YYZ & YVR.

Will confirm once their website is back up & running.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by sgera

High speed & High frequency train to YUL for international/Transborder flights perhaps with a train station at YOW would make a lot of sense....i guess the feds have announced something that's under study right now...maybe it will happen in ten years...i presume there will be a lot of lobbying against it from the airlines to protect the Windsor-QC corridor for domestic flights.

HFR with proper Dorval integration would be a boon for Ottawa.

Originally Posted by sgera

Thinking back to Mirabel airport...wasn't the location of Mirabel on the A50 (which is only getting twinned / completed now to Montreal 40 yrs later)...the original plan...to serve Ottawa-Gatineau and Montreal? guess the location sucked for Montreal'ers...

Mirabel is also poorly located for Ottawa residents.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Hey this should also mean the first ever connecting passengers at YOW for PD.

Don't people from Atlantic Canada connect today at YOW?

[RomanR27]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Don't people from Atlantic Canada connect today at YOW?

Yeah, I know someone who frequently does YTZ-YOW-YHZ and back.

[Calfan12]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

The jet age is beginning for Porter. Here's what someone else found:
YOW-YYZ 4x daily
YUL-YYZ 3x daily, increasing to 4x daily a bit later
YVR-YYZ 1x daily, increasing to 3x daily in the summer

Honestly this is a sensible schedule to begin with and hey not only does YOW factor into the inaugural day, it's got the most frequency to start, which is a good sign for the future.

First flight is on 02FEB23. Here's the full YOW schedule:

Toronto – Ottawa eff 02FEB23 4 daily Embraer E195-E2
PD155 YYZ0655 – 0800YOW 295 D
PD169 YYZ1355 – 1500YOW 295 D
PD179 YYZ1755 – 1900YOW 295 x3
PD185 YYZ1915 – 2020YOW 295 3
PD191 YYZ2220 – 2325YOW 295 D

PD150 YOW0740 – 0858YYZ 295 D
PD156 YOW0920 – 1038YYZ 295 D
PD170 YOW1555 – 1713YYZ 295 D
PD182 YOW2010 – 2128YYZ 295 x3
PD188 YOW2110 – 2228YYZ 295 3

You can already see the future frequency increases with the gaps between flight numbers.

Here's the rest: https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/221208-pdfeb23

Interesting.

Porter will be competing with Air Canada on Toronto YYZ - Vancouver YVR route which Air Canada has a stronghold on it & along with WestJet,Air Transat, Flair, Lynx Air & Canada Jetlines. And they will need some luck to make it work.

While on YOW- YYZ nonstop route, currently Air Canada has a stronghold on it too. But Porter they should be able to make it work on the Embraer E195-E2.

As WestJet on YYZ - YOW route is operating up to 3x daily mostly. But during Christmas holidays between 4-6x daily.
Friday’s are WS busiest days on YOW- YYZ as there additional frequencies of up to 5x daily flights.

[Tesladom]

Originally Posted by Calfan12

No, it’s not up to Government of Canada to force direct connections/ flights through Ottawa YOW.

The passengers demand will decide it & also up to the Airlines to plan whatever flights they operate!

Airlines will fly to destinations not only based on demand, but also based on subsidies. For the government of Canada, it should be important from a diplomatic and government travel requirement perspective to have regular connections from the seat of power to the outside World, especially a G7 economy and NATO member

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

There's plenty of cities around the world of our size. Most don't have a medium sized airline hub with international long haul, like Calgary. Why do you think that is?

This probably isn't going to make anyone feel better, but here in Phoenix (metro are pop ~5 million) there is exactly ONE overseas flight (BA to LHR). That's it. This was true even before Covid. LAS and LAX are the closest airports with more international connections (4 & 5 hour drive respectively).

Other than transborder (Canada, Mexico), there are just 2 flights to Central America tourist destinations.

I don't know the detailed stats, but there are multiple HQs here, and there is certainly a significant amount of corporate/business class travel. Typically, Europe means transiting through ORD, EWR or DFW.. Asia through LAX, SFO.. I haven't heard a peep about needing more non-stop flights.

If LH had of started at YOW, there would have better international connections than PHX... with 1/4 of the population.

I'm all for more YOW destinations (PHX for example ), but just trying to keep some things in perspective

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

This probably isn't going to make anyone feel better, but here in Phoenix (metro are pop ~5 million) there is exactly ONE overseas flight (BA to LHR). That's it. This was true even before Covid. LAS and LAX are the closest airports with more international connections (4 & 5 hour drive respectively).

Other than transborder (Canada, Mexico), there are just 2 flights to Central America tourist destinations.

I don't know the detailed stats, but there are multiple HQs here, and there is certainly a significant amount of corporate/business class travel. Typically, Europe means transiting through ORD, EWR or DFW.. Asia through LAX, SFO.. I haven't heard a peep about needing more non-stop flights.

If LH had of started at YOW, there would have better international connections than PHX... with 1/4 of the population.

I'm all for more YOW destinations (PHX for example ), but just trying to keep some things in perspective

Yes but for NA options, PHX is also hubbed by AA with a disproportionately higher amount of options compared to YOW because of it (city size to options ratio) if we’re bringing up population size.

[rocketphish]

Porter Airlines to fly out of Pearson to Vancouver, plus Ottawa and Montreal
Toronto-based airline has ordered 50 new Embraer long-range jets

CBC News
Posted: Dec 08, 2022 11:38 AM ET | Last Updated: 24 minutes ago

Porter Airlines has announced an aggressive expansion plan, one that will see the Toronto-based regional airline start flying new routes out of Canada's biggest airport, to destinations farther away than the airline has ever flown before.

The airline, whose base of operations is at Billy Bishop Airport on Toronto Island, has announced new routes flying out of the city's Pearson airport.

For the first time ever, Porter will offer flights from Toronto to Vancouver — the longest route the airline has offered in its 16-year history. The route has been made possible because of the airline's recent acquisition of 50 Embraer E195-E2 jets.

Flights are slated to begin in February and round-trip fares will start at $248, the airline said in a statement.

In addition to Vancouver, Porter is also adding two new routes out of Pearson to Ottawa and Montreal, also on the Embraer jets. While Porter's traditional fleet of turboprops have a complimentary snack service, the new jets and routes will come with familiar air-travel perks, like Wi-FI and a meal service. 

The flights out of Pearson to Ottawa and Montreal will start at $225, with all fees and taxes included, the airline said.

"Porter's introduction of the E195-E2 provides the ability to operate throughout North America, including the West Coast, better positioning us to serve the needs of many more business and leisure passengers," Porter CEO Michael Deluce said in a statement.

Porter had previously tried to scale up from a small regional airline by ordering several dozen CSeries jets from Bombardier, which would have allowed it to offer long-range flights to places as far away as western Europe and the Caribbean.

But those plans were scuppered when various levels of government refused to allow the runway at the downtown Toronto Island airport to be expanded to handle the larger jets.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/porter-airlines-pearson-1.6678658

[fanofYOW]

https://news.paxeditions.com/news/airlin...inations-between-yyz-and-ycr-yow-and-yul

“Porter says that Montreal and Ottawa will continue playing important roles in its network as new destinations are introduced in 2023“

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

If that's the business we're competing for, it's going to be a tough sell. Ottawa is never going to have the connectivity that Toronto or Montreal does. And a handful of long haul flights isn't going to change much for execs who are extremely focused on connectivity.

This is in part why I want a much tighter train connection to Dorval. It would make long haul traveling to/from Ottawa far less of a chore. And between domestic and transborder from YOW and long haul from YUL, there should be no excuses about connectivity from Ottawa.

I did this for the first time in many years last week. Having to take a shuttle is a bit annoying (My memory is many years ago you could just walk but I guess they built roads in between) but certainly better than an air connection with current frequencies. The bus is also easy but only useful if you are flying KLM etc.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

I did this for the first time in many years last week. Having to take a shuttle is a bit annoying (My memory is many years ago you could just walk but I guess they built roads in between) but certainly better than an air connection with current frequencies. The bus is also easy but only useful if you are flying KLM etc.

Did you take the VIA shuttle?

https://www.viarail.ca/en/plan/intermodality/montreal-trudeau-shuttle

I'd like to see a REM extension with no airport fare, or a long tunnel with movators when they eventually fix it up (REM extension under study). Combine that with hourly VIA service and you have a fairly easy and low stress way to catch long haul from Dorval. It would certainly be less painful than flying to Pearson or Dorval and having a 2 hr layover.

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by Calfan12

Yes agree. WestJet will be able to fill its flights at its main hub in Calgary YYC as they have large network of Domestic Canada,US & along with leisurely sun destinations flights :like Mexico.

The WestJet new routes for Summer 2023 to Barcelona Spain & Edinburgh Scotland, Europe/ along with Tokyo Japan, Asia will do okay from YYC & it will bring in more Tourists to Alberta. As Alberta government, Tourism/Travel Alberta, Tourism Calgary & Calgary YYC airport are all doing a good job of marketing/ promoting it,which will help it out!!

I also think its important to note how unique Calgary is for a city of 1.5 Million. It punches above it weight by a long shot, there isn't another city in North America that is doing what Calgary is in terms of being a strong hub.

The only other city that is that size and has a major hub is Salt Lake city (and you can argue that its really much larger when you add in the region).

After that it's Charlotte which has more population then the Vancouver area.


Add in our very expensive country to fly in, US carriers getting rid of small planes, pilot shortages, small business market, small incoming traffic from the US, geography lots of things are against the market.

American is bringing back their 50-seat CRJ's, Ottawa should be pushing hard to get a daily to Philly or Chicago. But that is how you start to find some traction.

Yes, there should be a focus on finding a way to connect to almost all major US hubs, Vegas, London, Frankfurt etc. Porter should be able to do something here but that will likely take years.
Also ignoring how unique Calgary is the aviation world is missing something too.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Did you take the VIA shuttle?

https://www.viarail.ca/en/plan/intermodality/montreal-trudeau-shuttle

I'd like to see a REM extension with no airport fare, or a long tunnel with movators when they eventually fix it up (REM extension under study). Combine that with hourly VIA service and you have a fairly easy and low stress way to catch long haul from Dorval. It would certainly be less painful than flying to Pearson or Dorval and having a 2 hr layover.

Yes. The shuttle was waiting for us. I am not sure if this is luck or timed with the fairly infrequent timed trains. I was a little worried as the link you posted makes them sound infrequent (20-30 minutes)