Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport (YOW/CYOW) 1.0

[Dominion301]

Today’s departure count: 64, including 6 sun flights

Today’s cancellation count: 1

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by phil235

Not arguing, as this is definitely not my area of expertise, but I've heard multiple times that Pearson is one of the most expensive airports in the world to operate from. Shouldn't that provide an opening for a smaller, less expensive airport like Ottawa?

Its not that simple. Air Canada, for example doesn't pay landing fees in Toronto. Ottawa cannot compete with that.

So for Air Canada, they can add a new Las Vegas flight from Ottawa, and incur an landing fee expense or just add another daily from Toronto and not pay a landing or gate fee and still fill it up (with lots of people from Ottawa and the bonus of other cities too).

The expense thing for Toronto is heavily talked about but not understood. Pearson now works deals with airlines and has done so for a decade.
Flair's costs went down when they moved from Hamilton to Toronto. The trade off was they had to accept poor flight times and bad gates, but it was cheaper than Hamilton.
Pearson is now heavily variable pricing, want slot at 8AM on a Monday, its expensive, want a 7:30PM on a Saturday they can find you a way to discount.
They also work with airlines who connect to offer better rates to ensure Toronto works as a hub. Other airlines that get no discounts at Pearson still need/want to be in Toronto so you can connect with Air Canada, or other airlines.

Its why other airports need to find ways to be creative and argue against new rules and taxes since all of them just keep pushing traffic to Hubs. Lower a few taxes or ownership rules and a few US airlines may start flying from Ottawa to its hubs. Delta has over 100 a-220 orders, we need to find a way to incentivize them to fly daily to Atlanta for example. We have barriers that keep them out.

[Truenorth00]

It's not so much that AC doesn't pay landing or gate fees. What they pay is a flat fee on some items and get volume discounts on others. The marginal cost for AC to add flights to Pearson is low. And the network effects are substantial.

What's more beneficial to AC? One flight from YOW to LAS everyday. Or a third YYZ-LAS rotation? The reality, is that a third Toronto-Vegas flight is more valuable. It opens up more connection options for substantially more passengers connecting through the hub, in addition to another local option for the Toronto market itself. That's how network effects work. Each added flight boosts demand on several other flights. Point to point flights have no network effects.

For YOW, this reality has two implications:

1) They can try to convince an airline to hub here.

2) Convince other carriers to serve Ottawa from as many of their hubs as possible.

Porter may do the former. It's up the YOW airport authority to develop the other business.

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

For YOW, this reality has two implications:

1) They can try to convince an airline to hub here.

2) Convince other carriers to serve Ottawa from as many of their hubs as possible.

Porter may do the former. It's up the YOW airport authority to develop the other business.

This is the hope, at least for me personally. I wonder what AC would do in that case if they see their market share being taken by Porter. Aggressive pricing? Increase destination options? Both? None? Their response will be a clear indication of how valuable YOW is to their share.

[Truenorth00]

I wouldn't care that much if were AC. Give up some share in Ottawa. And counter Porter's connecting traffic with pricing.

The reality is that Porter has smaller and less efficient aircraft. And Porter will only operate in Eastern Canada and to a handful of US destinations. There's not a lot of threat to AC that they can't handle.

[Dominion301]

Today’s departure count: 70, including 4 sun flights

FYI a few days ago, Porter added a 2 in front of all their flight numbers to make them 4 digits. Apparently they'll use 100-999 for E95 ops.

[VaskoYOW]

Porter rumor is that they will be allegedly starting ops from Ottawa the week of January 24th with flights to YYZ (twice daily). First couple of weeks will be flights from YOW, YUL and YYZ!
That’s all I can share….

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by VaskoYOW

Porter rumor is that they will be allegedly starting ops from Ottawa the week of January 24th with flights to YYZ (twice daily). First couple of weeks will be flights from YOW, YUL and YYZ!
That’s all I can share….

Thanks for sharing! I didn’t quite understand this sentence though.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by VaskoYOW

Porter rumor is that they will be allegedly starting ops from Ottawa the week of January 24th with flights to YYZ (twice daily). First couple of weeks will be flights from YOW, YUL and YYZ!
That’s all I can share….

Does that mean after a couple of weeks YYZ-YVR gets added in addition to YOW-YYZ & YUL-YYZ?

I guess that would make the most sense to feed YYZ-YVR. They could do 2x on triangle routes and then all flights 1-stop to YVR to make YYZ-YVR 4x. That could be accomplished with 3 frames.

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

Thanks for sharing! I didn’t quite understand this sentence though.

For the first few weeks of service for the E95 ops, Porter will be flying something like YOW-YYZ-YUL-YYZ-YOW-YYZ-YUL-YYZ-YOW for the day with an E95 before it is branched out to other stations (like YHZ).

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by MountainView

For the first few weeks of service for the E95 ops, Porter will be flying something like YOW-YYZ-YUL-YYZ-YOW-YYZ-YUL-YYZ-YOW for the day with an E95 before it is branched out to other stations (like YHZ).

Got it. Thank you!

[Tesladom]

This is an perfect example of why YOW flights are underserved: Airlines rip us off, we travel elsewhere, then airlines pull out saying there's no demand... viscous circle

I am looking to book flight to Orlando in Feb (Google Flights on AC)
Ottawa Direct Price: Ottawa Orlando Total price CA$1,283
Montreal Direct Price: Montreal Orlando Total price CA$671
Toronto Direct Price: Toronto Orlando Total price CA$175 (Both Swoop & Flair), $551 on AC

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by Tesladom

This is an perfect example of why YOW flights are underserved: Airlines rip us off, we travel elsewhere, then airlines pull out saying there's no demand... viscous circle

I am looking to book flight to Orlando in Feb (Google Flights on AC)
Ottawa Direct Price: Ottawa Orlando Total price CA$1,283
Montreal Direct Price: Montreal Orlando Total price CA$671
Toronto Direct Price: Toronto Orlando Total price CA$175 (Both Swoop & Flair), $551 on AC

Exactly. Have you tried checking Flair from YOW?

[Tesladom]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

Exactly. Have you tried checking Flair from YOW?

Only available Friday to Friday and at SFB not MCO (not really an issue), but $197 return!
That would mean 2 extra night of accommodations food etc... so maybe not worth it

[YOWflier]

Flair flies to SFB on days 1/3/5/7, 1=Mon.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Tesladom

This is an perfect example of why YOW flights are underserved: Airlines rip us off, we travel elsewhere, then airlines pull out saying there's no demand... viscous circle

I am looking to book flight to Orlando in Feb (Google Flights on AC)
Ottawa Direct Price: Ottawa Orlando Total price CA$1,283
Montreal Direct Price: Montreal Orlando Total price CA$671
Toronto Direct Price: Toronto Orlando Total price CA$175 (Both Swoop & Flair), $551 on AC

Free market at play. That's how much you have to pay AC for a direct. They'd rather you connect through YYZ where they will have multiple departures to MCO.

We are in a smaller market. There will be less competition. We can have more directs. Or lower fares. Both is difficult. And when Porter shows up, you'll get to see some of this. 1-3 directs per day to places like Orlando. Fares still more expensive than connecting with AC and substantially higher than directs from Montreal and Toronto. I look forward to the whining when this inevitably happens.

[YOWflier]

Flair is making both of those possible. That’s why they’re very important to our market.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by FlyYOW

Flair is making both of those possible. That’s why they’re very important to our market.

With the sacrifice of schedule, the third part of the trade-off triangle.

[YOWflier]

In respect of MCO/SFB, at least the combination of AC/Flair/WS covers daily (some 2x daily) service, and it allows for more price shopping and itinerary building combinations. Flair r/t will always be cheapest, but if someone is averse to handing them the whole itinerary, or if the schedule doesn’t accommodate in one direction or another, they can often book two separate 1-ways (separate carriers) getting them a blended price that is much better than AC r/t alone. That’s about as good as it can get here until we see what Porter does.

FLL is similar but there’s no WS on that route.

I’d encourage OP to think outside the r/t box if not already. I do it often for FLL.

[MountainView]

Air Canada is using flight number 888 on YYZ-FCO this summer. (they increased the route to 10x weekly, so for 3 of those frequencies, 888/889 will be used)

AC888/889 is the old YOW-LHR route numbers for those who don't know.