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View Poll Results: Electric Vehicle Ownership Poll
I own a BEV (Battery Electric Vehicle) 7 21.88%
I own a PHEV (Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle) 2 6.25%
I own an HEV (Hybrid Electric Vehicle) 2 6.25%
I'm considering a BEV (Tesla, LEAF, Bolt, etc.) 6 18.75%
I'm considering a PHEV (Volt, etc.) 6 18.75%
I'm considering a HEV (Prius, etc.) 3 9.38%
I would only buy a non-electric gas or diesel car 3 9.38%
I don't want a car 4 12.50%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 32. You may not vote on this poll

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  #901  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2022, 2:02 PM
Tesladom Tesladom is offline
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
I still say we need to find a way to encourage home charging to be built out at rental units and condos, and build on street charging in areas without off street parking, but this will help fill in the gap.
Vancouver is proposing to add a surtax on parking lots that do not offer EV charging... this might be a better approach
If they apply the policy to condos, rentals and public pay parking spots in Ottawa, I think this might be a good incentive

Again, I need to stress that people overestimate the power requirements for at-home charging, a 3Phase 208v100AMP circuit could accommodate up to 20 vehicles for load balanced condo charging
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  #902  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2022, 8:38 PM
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I stumbled across this webpage from Measurement Canada (dated 2021-08-09) that "in the next 18 months" (which would now be in the next 7 months if still accurate), "electric vehicle (EV) charging stations that meet established technical standards to charge based on kilowatt-hours (kWh) consumed." This would be a huge improvement, as the current requirement for time-based (or flat fee) billing has significant issues in many circumstances.

The website had a survey, but it looks like it is over.
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  #903  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2022, 2:45 AM
nredding nredding is offline
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I saw an EV charger with 2 outlets on Cartier St. in downtown Ottawa today. I imagine it was a Level 2 charger. It doesn’t take up much space so I think we’ll see more of these on residential streets in the future.
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  #904  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2022, 2:46 AM
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
I stumbled across this webpage from Measurement Canada (dated 2021-08-09) that "in the next 18 months" (which would now be in the next 7 months if still accurate), "electric vehicle (EV) charging stations that meet established technical standards to charge based on kilowatt-hours (kWh) consumed." This would be a huge improvement, as the current requirement for time-based (or flat fee) billing has significant issues in many circumstances.

The website had a survey, but it looks like it is over.
A new update to the linked website:
Quote:
We have been consulting with Canadians on our strategy to allow accurate energy measurement at commercial EV charging stations. As a result of these consultations, on August 10, 2022, we published prototype requirements for new Level 1 and Level 2 EV chargers in Canada. Building on this progress, we intend to pursue the following actions in the months ahead:
  • Based on the consultations that took place over the summer, we will be enacting, in the fall of 2022, a temporary dispensation mechanism (with terms and conditions) to allow kilowatt-hour (kWh) billing for commercial Level 1 and Level 2 EV chargers already in use in the marketplace. Level 1 and Level 2 EV chargers represent 80% of the EV chargers currently installed in Canada.
  • Furthermore, in the fall of 2022, we will launch consultations to support the finalization of a framework that will allow kilowatt-hour (kWh) billing for Level 3+ EVCS already in use in the existing marketplace.
  • We also aim to enact a temporary dispensation mechanism, before the end of the calendar year, to allow EV charging station device owners and operators of Level 3+ powered EVCS already in the marketplace to bill customers based on kWh consumed rather than time. This mechanism will be informed by the forthcoming consultations and will allow us to continue working simultaneously with international competent authorities to develop technical regulations for level 3+ fast chargers.
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  #905  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2022, 11:01 PM
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rocketphish rocketphish is offline
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Canada falling behind as electric vehicle sales pick up around the world

The Canadian Press
November 22, 2022 | 9:16 AM ET


Electric-vehicle sales in Canada grew by more than one third in the first half of this year but they are not keeping pace with the rest of the world.

A report on global EV sales released by research firm BloombergNEF at the United Nations climate talks in Egypt Thursday said battery-electric and plug-in hybrid passenger vehicles accounted for nearly one in every eight vehicles sold worldwide between January and June.

That compares with one in 11 in the same period a year earlier.

Total sales for the period hit 4.3 million, a 70 per cent increase over 2021. BloombergNEF says they’re on track to hit 10.6 million vehicles by the end of December, which would be 61 per cent more than in 2021.

Between January and June, 56 per cent of global sales were made in China, 28 per cent in Europe and 11 per cent in the United States.

Canada, which accounted for about 1.5 per cent of all global vehicle sales, was home to less than one per cent of all electric vehicle sales.

The BloombergNEF report said Canada is among the countries “catching up” on electric vehicles.

Statistics Canada data show EVs made up one in 14 new vehicles registered in the first half of this year, compared with one in 20 a year earlier.

The sale of electric vehicles did hit a six-month record in Canada at nearly 56,000 sold this year, an increase of 35 per cent compared with the year before.

But that is not on pace with the growth around the world.

Canada is aiming to have 60 per cent of all new vehicles be electric by 2030 and 100 per cent by 2035.

Based on average new vehicle registrations, the EV total would have to grow from 55,600 to about 480,000 over six months to hit that 60 per cent target.

Brian Kingston, president of the Canadian Vehicle Manufacturers’ Association, said the lack of public charging is holding back Canadian demand.

“We are not currently a leader on EV readiness,” he said in an interview.

“If Canada wants to be a leader and really accelerate EV adoption we have to take readiness seriously.”

That view is backed by the annual electric-vehicle readiness index, published by global accounting firm EY, which this year listed Canada as 13th out of 14 countries measured.

A year ago Canada was 8th.

The EY report said charging infrastructure and the high cost of electric vehicles is holding Canada back.

The Canadian Automobile Association lists 80 models of battery-electric vehicles with an average price of $82,000.

Kingston said government rebates for EVs need to be higher. Canada offers up to $5,000 off the cost of EVs with a base price of no more than $55,000.

Quebec and British Columbia have provincial rebates that get layered on top of that, and advocates and experts say it’s no accident that those are also the provinces with the highest sales.

B.C., where almost one in six vehicles registered between January and June was electric, is the only jurisdiction in Canada exceeding the global sales mark of 13 per cent.

Quebec follows at 11.4 per cent but there is a big drop-off to third-place Ontario, where 5.5 per cent of new vehicle registrations between January and June were electric.

Ontario had a rebate until 2018, after which sales slowed.

https://obj.ca/canada-falling-behind-as-electric-vehicle-sales-pick-up-around-the-world/
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  #906  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2022, 2:01 PM
OTownandDown OTownandDown is offline
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Forget about charging. How about the ability to order an EV with good specs in the $50k range? Hyundai's are now like 3-4 years on a waitlist.

Is this not incentive for manufacturer's to head in that direction? (Yes I know you're all going to list the new EV's coming out). I'm looking for Ionic 5 long range battery and charging specs without paying $80k.
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  #907  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2022, 6:53 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is offline
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Originally Posted by OTownandDown View Post
Forget about charging. How about the ability to order an EV with good specs in the $50k range? Hyundai's are now like 3-4 years on a waitlist.

Is this not incentive for manufacturer's to head in that direction? (Yes I know you're all going to list the new EV's coming out). I'm looking for Ionic 5 long range battery and charging specs without paying $80k.
From what I read nobody is yet making profit from EVs either. It's an investment in the future as are the subsidies but it's not certain it actually pans out. That said I don't think the city charging infrastructure is super important. I agree there is certainly a demand for an affordable EV that outstrips supply. I guess there is a lot of demand to get an Iphone at an entry level price too. But in your case $50k certainly seems realistic.
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  #908  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2022, 4:32 PM
CanadaGoose CanadaGoose is offline
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From what I read nobody is yet making profit from EVs either. It's an investment in the future as are the subsidies but it's not certain it actually pans out. That said I don't think the city charging infrastructure is super important. I agree there is certainly a demand for an affordable EV that outstrips supply. I guess there is a lot of demand to get an Iphone at an entry level price too. But in your case $50k certainly seems realistic.
Tesla is making profit on their EVs now, but with their car starting at 60k.

New entries have trouble making profit since they haven't optimized their processes or invested enough in their factory design.
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  #909  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2022, 5:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTownandDown View Post
Forget about charging. How about the ability to order an EV with good specs in the $50k range? Hyundai's are now like 3-4 years on a waitlist.

Is this not incentive for manufacturer's to head in that direction? (Yes I know you're all going to list the new EV's coming out). I'm looking for Ionic 5 long range battery and charging specs without paying $80k.
That is where EV mandates are important. Most EV's in Canada are beeing shipped to BC and Quebec, as they have mandates. Here in Ontario, there isn't a mandate, so we only get the EVs that BC and Quebec (and other countries with mandates) don't need.

While rebates can help, I would rather see that money redirected into home charging installation. While you can live with an EV without being able to charge at home, it is much easier if you can. For those who can't charge at home, affordable charging at work (or where you park when at work) is the second best thing. These two will solve the vast majority of daily charigng issues.

For road trips we need hotel charging and rappid charging at the restaruants and rest stops that people are stopping off at anyway. While we need subsidies for these in the short term, as the percentage of EVs on the road grows, those businesses will choose to install them to either create a competative advantage over thier rivals or not loose business to rivals that already have them.

Last edited by roger1818; Nov 25, 2022 at 6:20 PM.
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  #910  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2022, 2:31 PM
Tesladom Tesladom is offline
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From what I read nobody is yet making profit from EVs either.
Tesla is actually the most profitable automaker on a per-unit basis (27% margin). But you are correct, none of the other automakers are making any profit, and that's why their production is not ramping up either. It's all for show, and production will not ramp until costs come down for legacy automakers. Meanwhile Tesla continues to expand (2Million/units annual production in Q4 2022 with 2 factories at full production and 2 just ramping up, Shanghai alone will pump out 1million+ units as long as COVID shutdowns don't come back), their mote is going to be just too large for most legacy automakers to over-come

Also be careful ready the sales report, they usually include PHEV's (Plug-in Hybrid) in their numbers. you need to look at BEV only
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  #911  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2022, 6:38 PM
Tesladom Tesladom is offline
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https://www.carsdirect.com/automotive-ne...20Mach,%2Delectric%20F%2D150%20Lightning.
No matter what their marketing machine says, they don't want you buying their EVs, they are marketing them to lure people into showrooms to sell ICE vehicles

Even "pure" EV makers like Polestar do not expect to record any operating profits by 2025. Mark my words, by 2030 the automotive landscape will be completely different, only a few will survive

Last edited by Tesladom; Nov 28, 2022 at 7:00 PM.
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  #912  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2022, 4:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Tesladom View Post
https://www.carsdirect.com/automotive-ne...20Mach,%2Delectric%20F%2D150%20Lightning.
No matter what their marketing machine says, they don't want you buying their EVs, they are marketing them to lure people into showrooms to sell ICE vehicles

Even "pure" EV makers like Polestar do not expect to record any operating profits by 2025. Mark my words, by 2030 the automotive landscape will be completely different, only a few will survive
Given that some automakers these days are encouraging EV buyers order them online and only have them delivered to a dealer once it has been built, your opinion seems rather misinformed. Many are also finding ways to disassociate themselves from dealers that refuse to embrace EVs. I find it strange how the Tesla Fan Boys and Girls spread as much FUD as the petrol heads.
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  #913  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2022, 3:43 PM
Tesladom Tesladom is offline
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Given that some automakers these days are encouraging EV buyers order them online and only have them delivered to a dealer once it has been built, your opinion seems rather misinformed.
Hummmm???? Misinformed? Barking up the wrong tree. Every single auto analyst out there will confirm my statement that every OEM, with the exception of Tesla & BYD (very slight profit - China) and perhaps Porsche (hard to really quantify profit and expenses since part of VW), are losing money on BEVs. I can't make this stuff up, its in their earnings reports

Check out Reuters analysis of Toyota vs Tesla in terms of profit per vehicle


It's all about innovation and automation, FSD is the next giant leap

Freemont is the most productive Auto plant in North America (even though it is a legacy auto plant), producing 650,000 vehicles/year and Shanghai is most productive in the World, at nearly 1.1million vehicles based on current run rate. At Shanghai, that is one vehicle every 30 seconds.... think about that!
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  #914  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2022, 3:57 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
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How is this relevant to any of us? Nobody gives a damn about Tesla's (or anybody else's) profit margins on an infrastructure forum.
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  #915  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2022, 4:25 PM
Tesladom Tesladom is offline
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While I agree with you on that, we need to make the right choices when it comes to manufacturing and incentive policies. There's no point in supporting bad/dead technology with government money (read - supporting Legacy automakers like Stellantis who is likely going bankrupt, ineffective charging infrastructure & policies - don't get me started on this), or giving EV incentives purposefully designed to exclude the market leader
Our government policy is picking the losers of the next revolution, this is what is so frustrating
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  #916  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2022, 4:27 PM
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How is this relevant to any of us? Nobody gives a damn about Tesla's (or anybody else's) profit margins on an infrastructure forum.
Because the topic somehow got changed to the viability of EVs because it's out of reach for a large portion of the market due to price.

And the EV owners here are defending the EV and saying it's possible to eventually make EVs an large part of the car market (with some companies getting high margins, and some companies having the ability to lower their price)


---
But back to infrastructure, there isn't much new other than some more Level 2 chargers popping up everywhere (T&T supermarket, some apartment buildings, First Capital properties, City of Ottawa, etc)
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  #917  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2022, 5:09 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
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The affordability discussion is sort of moot when EVs are growing market share every year. Ergo, we know we have to build out the infrastructure to meet growing demand.
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  #918  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2022, 6:19 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is offline
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
The affordability discussion is sort of moot when EVs are growing market share every year. Ergo, we know we have to build out the infrastructure to meet growing demand.
I mean we aren't policy makers so maybe it's moot but it's a discussion on what should come next and growing market share as others have said is almost entirely because of incentives. If automakers are losing money on the electric only vehicles they are producing that suggests costs aren't coming down anytime soon. There is a lot of federal cash sloshing around for infrastructure as a city with a precarious financial position already we can maybe sit back and let those funds go to work.
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  #919  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2022, 10:55 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
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Whether automakers are making money is irrelevant to the public policy on charger installation. All that matters is that they are selling more and more EVs every year. That means more and more demand for charging. Governments and the private sector (not all of this infrastructure is publicly funded) need to respond accordingly.

And if by some happenstance, Tesla is literally the b unit automaker left standing as Tesla fans predict, that only means the demand for chargers will be higher. Not lower.

I don't think the city needs to be substantially involved. They could, however, use infrastructure money for multiple benefits. For example, make some city owned chargers open to the public at certain times. Or work with taxi drivers to create large charging stands. Etc.
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  #920  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2022, 1:29 PM
Tesladom Tesladom is offline
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This is my point specifically about Tesla vs the rest:

Governments are getting in the way and trying to "even-out" the playing field or even worse choose winners and losers based on their political ideology. All of which is wrong

Tesla has the least amount of Government support in both direct subsidy to the manufacturer and support to consumer in form of rebates (not available since 2020 in US and most of Canada), yet has 2/3rd of BEV market in NA. There is no public funding for the Tesla Supercharger infrastructure, yet is is hands-down the best network out there in terms of speed, reliability and availability.

When government tries to meddle in the private market, bad things happen. The NA landscape for EVs will continue to trail other geographies, unless the governments adopt a universal and transparent subsidy/incentive approach.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again: There is little need for public charging infrastructure, you charge at home. I assisted so many people to set up their charger infrastructure, and always recommend to go no more than 30AMP (still a lot) - you don't need more than that! For those in Condos and street parking, we need a better strategy to make charging accessible and affordable. There is a delusion perception by most that we need huge capacity in a condo, I argue that using a load share, a 100AMP 3PH 208v load shared bank would be sufficient to charge up to 20 vehicles. There is no need for Level 2 chargers at your local Metro. They are needed along highways between cities and at destinations (hotel, resorts etc..). I routinely drive to to Toronto and only 2-3 time per year use a Supercharger, most Tesla owners will never even use it.

The other issue I see, and one that governments will need to address, is BEV efficiency (or lack thereof in new North American EVs). F150 Lightning, Rivians Hummers etc.. are pigs, both in Gas and EV forms. The Hummer EV has approx 220KW battery as compared to my 75KW battery on my Model 3, yet I can drive further (and charge quicker).
If North America replaced Gas pigs with EV pigs, the result may not be as positive

Last edited by Tesladom; Dec 5, 2022 at 1:45 PM.
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