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  #2141  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2022, 9:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Vin View Post
You're the one getting confused:

Perhaps yo help you comprehend the situation better, Vancouver Sun should have said "The suspect was taken to hospital with bean-gunshot wounds". Well he isn't dead, is he?

From VPD:

Thanks for letting us know which side you are on.
I can see why you're still confused - there are a lot of people being shot by the police these days.

Your Vancouver is Awesome link is about the police shooting someone with a beanbag gun on November 24th at Gore and Keefer.

The Transit police shot someone who had 'a weapon' in Gastown at West Cordova Street near Cambie on November 28th. He ended up in hospital 'with gunshot wounds'.

Two weeks ago North Vancouver police shot and killed someone.

It was back in August when the VPD shot and killed a visitor to Vancouver in the DTES with a beanbag gun. That's the apparently innocent victim who you suggested (with no evidence but your inherent bias) 'Would've still been alive if he were still in jail, or held up to receive more counselling'.

Thanks for letting us know that you don't care if people die.
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  #2142  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2022, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Vin View Post
If there are no better alternatives, we are still sticking with such weapons, unless you brainy folks can come up with something better. Better a criminal getting hurt than the victim, but it looks like you folks think otherwise.
I said what I meant and meant what I said: beanbag rounds can potentially do a lot more than halting someone before violence occurs. I didn't say police shouldn't use beanbag rounds, just that we shouldn't pretend they don't do any damage to the perpetrator.
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  #2143  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2022, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Vin View Post
If there are no better alternatives, we are still sticking with such weapons, unless you brainy folks can come up with something better. Better a criminal getting hurt than the victim, but it looks like you folks think otherwise.
Where the fuck did I say that?

The voices in your head don't count.
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  #2144  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2022, 10:34 PM
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Why do I get the feeling Vin is one step away from murdering homeless people while they sleep? VPD should keep an eye on this one.
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  #2145  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2022, 12:43 AM
Phil McAvity Phil McAvity is offline
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Originally Posted by Changing City View Post
I guess having the Transit Police shoot someone reported to have a weapon is progress in your mind?

Back in the Good Old Days police didn't get involved in Gastown. Where Westbanks's new Blood Alley housing has just been developed were three saloons with a rough reputation. They backed onto a privately owned alley, and the first time the Blood Alley name was used for it was in 1964 when a reporter on The Province reported the third murder in two years in the alley.
Not according to this website: https://forbiddenvancouver.ca/blog/history-deviant-alleys-vancouver/

"The name “Trounce Alley” didn’t have the allure they were looking for, so they began calling it Blood Alley and introduced myths that the name derived from blood flowing from slaughterhouses in the alley. Alternatively, some claimed that hangings once took place there and inspired the name. Neither story is true (hangings all took place in New Westminster and there were no abattoirs).

Blood Alley in New York City, about a month into demolition to make way for the United Nations Building. Project on International and United Nations History, University of Cambridge.
Blood Alley in New York City, 1946, about a month into demolition to make way for the United Nations Building. Photo from the Project on International and United Nations History, University of Cambridge.

There was a Blood Alley lined with abattoirs in New York City that was demolished in the 1940s for the UN Building. Another street in New York’s Chinatown called Doyers was variously nicknamed “Murder Alley,” “Blood Alley,” or the “Bloody Angle” due to the large number of murders that took place there during Tong Wars in the 1920s. It’s likely that Gastown’s mythmakers took their cue from the Big Apple, or possibly a John Wayne film called “Blood Alley.”

The name “Blood Alley” has stuck and is now part of the city’s history. If you want to be precise, it technically only refers to the cobblestoned Blood Alley Square, while the alley itself is still Trounce, regardless of what Google Maps says."

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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
Where the fuck did I say that?

The voices in your head don't count.
He wasn't quoting you and he's right, you sound like a bleeding heart lefty who cares more about the criminal than the victim but that's the zeitgeist here at this site-people need to be nicer to the violent, mentally ill/drug addicted than law-abiding, hard working people that they victimize all because they want everyone to know what supreme compassion they possess
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Last edited by Phil McAvity; Dec 3, 2022 at 1:24 AM.
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  #2146  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2022, 1:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Phil McAvity View Post
Not according to this website: https://forbiddenvancouver.ca/blog/history-deviant-alleys-vancouver/

"The name “Trounce Alley” didn’t have the allure they were looking for, so they began calling it Blood Alley and introduced myths that the name derived from blood flowing from slaughterhouses in the alley. Alternatively, some claimed that hangings once took place there and inspired the name. Neither story is true (hangings all took place in New Westminster and there were no abattoirs).

The name “Blood Alley” has stuck and is now part of the city’s history. If you want to be precise, it technically only refers to the cobblestoned Blood Alley Square, while the alley itself is still Trounce, regardless of what Google Maps says."
Lani's research is all correct - it was Trounce Alley (named by Frank Hart after the one in Victoria). And when Larry Killam and the other Gastown developers moved in and transformed it in the 1970s, they used the Blood Alley name. Presumably Lani hadn't seen the Province, and later Vancouver Sun articles in the 1960s that first named it Blood Alley, because of the murders there. The journalist was presumably picking up the name from an earlier reference, most likely the Lauren Bacall / John Wayne movie. (Now that the Province and Sun newspapers can be read online without paying a subscription to newspapers.com, it's easier to find these references.) It's possible the developers were looking for a 'story' to hang the name on without referencing it's 1960s origins - they were trying to establish the area as a tourist attraction!
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  #2147  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2022, 8:30 PM
Phil McAvity Phil McAvity is offline
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Originally Posted by Changing City View Post
Lani's research is all correct - it was Trounce Alley (named by Frank Hart after the one in Victoria). And when Larry Killam and the other Gastown developers moved in and transformed it in the 1970s, they used the Blood Alley name. Presumably Lani hadn't seen the Province, and later Vancouver Sun articles in the 1960s that first named it Blood Alley, because of the murders there. The journalist was presumably picking up the name from an earlier reference, most likely the Lauren Bacall / John Wayne movie. (Now that the Province and Sun newspapers can be read online without paying a subscription to newspapers.com, it's easier to find these references.) It's possible the developers were looking for a 'story' to hang the name on without referencing it's 1960s origins - they were trying to establish the area as a tourist attraction!
That's ironic because I can't imagine a less attractive name for tourists or locals than "Blood Alley" of which I have two connections-I lived right there in the early 90's in the Travellers Inn which backs on to Blood Alley and i'm from and live in Victoria which is why I was confused when I heard the name "Trounce Alley" as we have one here in Victoria too but I didn't know it was called Trounce Alley back then. How more ominous a name can you get than an alley where you can get trounced and then bleed?

Do you have a source for your claims that it's name originated from those 60's murders?
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  #2148  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2022, 9:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Phil McAvity View Post
That's ironic because I can't imagine a less attractive name for tourists or locals than "Blood Alley" of which I have two connections-I lived right there in the early 90's in the Travellers Inn which backs on to Blood Alley and i'm from and live in Victoria which is why I was confused when I heard the name "Trounce Alley" as we have one here in Victoria too but I didn't know it was called Trounce Alley back then. How more ominous a name can you get than an alley where you can get trounced and then bleed?

Do you have a source for your claims that it's name originated from those 60's murders?
This one was in my original comment. It's recently published and references the dates the news stories appeared. You can look at the Province archives on this site (free).
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  #2149  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2022, 5:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Phil McAvity View Post
He wasn't quoting you and he's right, you sound like a bleeding heart lefty who cares more about the criminal than the victim but that's the zeitgeist here at this site-people need to be nicer to the violent, mentally ill/drug addicted than law-abiding, hard working people that they victimize all because they want everyone to know what supreme compassion they possess
He was claiming I was something I am not.

Hey Phil, I didn't say anything you claimed either, fuck you too.
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  #2150  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2022, 8:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Changing City View Post
I can see why you're still confused - there are a lot of people being shot by the police these days.

Your Vancouver is Awesome link is about the police shooting someone with a beanbag gun on November 24th at Gore and Keefer.

The Transit police shot someone who had 'a weapon' in Gastown at West Cordova Street near Cambie on November 28th. He ended up in hospital 'with gunshot wounds'.

Two weeks ago North Vancouver police shot and killed someone.

It was back in August when the VPD shot and killed a visitor to Vancouver in the DTES with a beanbag gun. That's the apparently innocent victim who you suggested (with no evidence but your inherent bias) 'Would've still been alive if he were still in jail, or held up to receive more counselling'.

Thanks for letting us know that you don't care if people die.
Goes to show how violent your neighbourhood is, or has become. If people die there, it is because of the lack of actions from "sympathetic" folks and authority figures like yourself.

Another gongshow in the DTES:
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Neighbours evacuated after man fires gun inside Railtown apartment
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/railtown-apartment-gun-fired-neighbours-evacuated


Quote:
Originally Posted by FarmerHaight View Post
I said what I meant and meant what I said: beanbag rounds can potentially do a lot more than halting someone before violence occurs. I didn't say police shouldn't use beanbag rounds, just that we shouldn't pretend they don't do any damage to the perpetrator.
Suggestion of a better alternative?
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  #2151  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2022, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Changing City View Post
....It was back in August when the VPD shot and killed a visitor to Vancouver in the DTES with a beanbag gun. That's the apparently innocent victim who you suggested (with no evidence but your inherent bias) 'Would've still been alive if he were still in jail, or held up to receive more counselling'.

Thanks for letting us know that you don't care if people die.
LOL, "a visitor to Vancouver". Sure, must have just got lost while looking for the steam clock, and ended up "interacting" with people in the DTES who bear-sprayed him.
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  #2152  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2022, 1:04 AM
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LOL, "a visitor to Vancouver". Sure, must have just got lost while looking for the steam clock, and ended up "interacting" with people in the DTES who bear-sprayed him.
It was reported that he was from Winnipeg, visiting his children. But he was first nations, so I guess his death doesn't count to you?
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  #2153  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2022, 11:25 PM
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It was reported that he was from Winnipeg, visiting his children. But he was first nations, so I guess his death doesn't count to you?
So you're insinuating his kids were all in the DTES and he was bear sprayed while visiting them? Were they in tents underneath your window?
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  #2154  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2022, 11:43 PM
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So you're insinuating his kids were all in the DTES and he was bear sprayed while visiting them? Were they in tents underneath your window?
Why are you digging a deeper hole for yourself? You've already proved who you are. From the link above - no, not all his children were in the DTES. "Amyotte's cousin Samantha Wilson told CBC that he was in Vancouver visiting family, including two of his children." I don't know any more than you do where they were living, or the circumstances of his death except it was reported that he was unarmed, he had been sprayed with mace in a nearby building, and that he was shot six times with a beanbag gun by VPD officers.

We also know that B.C. has the country's highest rate of police-involved deaths.
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  #2155  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2022, 9:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Changing City View Post
Why are you digging a deeper hole for yourself? You've already proved who you are. From the link above - no, not all his children were in the DTES. "Amyotte's cousin Samantha Wilson told CBC that he was in Vancouver visiting family, including two of his children." I don't know any more than you do where they were living, or the circumstances of his death except it was reported that he was unarmed, he had been sprayed with mace in a nearby building, and that he was shot six times with a beanbag gun by VPD officers.

We also know that B.C. has the country's highest rate of police-involved deaths.
Fact is that he was already attacked in the DTES even before the police got there. He wouldn't have been dead if there was law and order there in the first place. Goes to show how deadly the DTES can get and folks like you still think it's all under control. What a joke.

Blame the police all you want, but it is also the non-stringent casual attitude this city and province have towards lawlessness that have made police work all the more difficult, with more deaths, rightfully or wrongfully caused, as a result.
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  #2156  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2022, 11:43 PM
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THE OBVIOUS ANSWER TO HOMELESSNESS
And why everyone’s ignoring it


Quote:
In their book, Homelessness Is a Housing Problem, the University of Washington professor Gregg Colburn and the data scientist Clayton Page Aldern demonstrate that “the homelessness crisis in coastal cities cannot be explained by disproportionate levels of drug use, mental illness, or poverty.” Rather, the most relevant factors in the homelessness crisis are rent prices and vacancy rates.

Colburn and Aldern note that some urban areas with very high rates of poverty (Detroit, Miami-Dade County, Philadelphia) have among the lowest homelessness rates in the country, and some places with relatively low poverty rates (Santa Clara County, San Francisco, Boston) have relatively high rates of homelessness. The same pattern holds for unemployment rates: “Homelessness is abundant,” the authors write, “only in areas with robust labor markets and low rates of unemployment—booming coastal cities.”

Why is this so? Because these “superstar cities,” as economists call them, draw an abundance of knowledge workers. These highly paid workers require various services, which in turn create demand for an array of additional workers, including taxi drivers, lawyers and paralegals, doctors and nurses, and day-care staffers. These workers fuel an economic-growth machine—and they all need homes to live in. In a well-functioning market, rising demand for something just means that suppliers will make more of it. But housing markets have been broken by a policy agenda that seeks to reap the gains of a thriving regional economy while failing to build the infrastructure—housing—necessary to support the people who make that economy go. The results of these policies are rising housing prices and rents, and skyrocketing homelessness.

It’s not surprising that people wrongly believe the fundamental causes of the homelessness crisis are mental-health problems and drug addiction. Our most memorable encounters with homeless people tend to be with those for whom mental-health issues or drug abuse are evident; you may not notice the family crashing in a motel, but you will remember someone experiencing a mental-health crisis on the subway.

If mental-health issues or drug abuse were major drivers of homelessness, then places with higher rates of these problems would see higher rates of homelessness. They don’t. Utah, Alabama, Colorado, Kentucky, West Virginia, Vermont, Delaware, and Wisconsin have some of the highest rates of mental illness in the country, but relatively modest homelessness levels. What prevents at-risk people in these states from falling into homelessness at high rates is simple: They have more affordable-housing options.

With similar reasoning, we can reject the idea that climate explains varying rates of homelessness. If warm weather attracted homeless people in large numbers, Seattle; Portland, Oregon; New York City; and Boston would not have such high rates of homelessness and cities in southern states like Florida, Georgia, Alabama, and Mississippi such low ones. (There is a connection between unsheltered homelessness and temperature, but it’s not clear which way the causal arrow goes: The East Coast and the Midwest have a lot more shelter capacity than the West Coast, which keeps homeless people more out of view.)

Homelessness is best understood as a “flow” problem, not a “stock” problem. Not that many Americans are chronically homeless—the problem, rather, is the millions of people who are precariously situated on the cliff of financial stability, people for whom a divorce, a lost job, a fight with a roommate, or a medical event can result in homelessness. According to the Los Angeles Homeless Services Authority, roughly 207 people get rehoused daily across the county—but 227 get pushed into homelessness. The crisis is driven by a constant flow of people losing their housing.

The homelessness crisis is most acute in places with very low vacancy rates, and where even “low income” housing is still very expensive. A study led by an economist at Zillow shows that when a growing number of people are forced to spend 30 percent or more of their income on rent, homelessness spikes.

Few Republican-dominated states have had to deal with severe homelessness crises, mainly because superstar cities are concentrated in Democratic states. Some blame profligate welfare programs for blue-city homelessness, claiming that people are moving from other states to take advantage of coastal largesse. But the available evidence points in the opposite direction—in 2022, just 17 percent of homeless people reported that they’d lived in San Francisco for less than one year, according to city officials. Gregg Colburn and Clayton Aldern found essentially no relationship between places with more generous welfare programs and rates of homelessness. And abundant other research indicates that social-welfare programs reduce homelessness. Consider, too, that some people move to superstar cities in search of gainful employment and then find themselves unable to keep up with the cost of living—not a phenomenon that can be blamed on welfare policies.

But liberalism is largely to blame for the homelessness crisis: A contradiction at the core of liberal ideology has precluded Democratic politicians, who run most of the cities where homelessness is most acute, from addressing the issue. Liberals have stated preferences that housing should be affordable, particularly for marginalized groups that have historically been shunted to the peripheries of the housing market. But local politicians seeking to protect the interests of incumbent homeowners spawned a web of regulations, laws, and norms that has made blocking the development of new housing pitifully simple.

This contradiction drives the ever more visible crisis. As the historian Jacob Anbinder has explained, in the ’70s and ’80s conservationists, architectural preservationists, homeowner groups, and left-wing organizations formed a loose coalition in opposition to development. Throughout this period, Anbinder writes, “the implementation of height limits, density restrictions, design review boards, mandatory community input, and other veto points in the development process” made it much harder to build housing. This coalition—whose central purpose is opposition to neighborhood change and the protection of home values—now dominates politics in high-growth areas across the country, and has made it easy for even small groups of objectors to prevent housing from being built. The result? The U.S. is now millions of homes short of what its population needs.

Simply making homelessness less visible has come to be what constitutes “success.” New York City consistently has the nation’s highest homelessness rate, but it’s not as much of an Election Day issue as it is on the West Coast. That’s because its displaced population is largely hidden in shelters. Yet since 2012, the number of households in shelters has grown by more than 30 percent—despite the city spending roughly $3 billion a year (as of 2021) trying to combat the problem. This is what policy failure looks like. At some point, someone’s going to have to own it.
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  #2157  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2022, 12:19 AM
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I made an observation the other day and joke about it sometimes, I believe the crack house has officially gone extinct in the Lower Mainland. When I was a kid, everyone knew at least one run down house in the neighbourhood that was uh "that house", but you just can't afford to rent a crack house with modern rents on modern crackhead incomes no matter how many people you cram in.

Meanwhile, take a look at half the city streets in Detroit or Philly like the article suggests and yep, there they are in all their glory.

Maybe they weren't so bad after all?
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  #2158  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2022, 9:22 PM
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Remove Viewcones.
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  #2159  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2022, 9:25 PM
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This morning I saw addicts told to leave outside the shoot-up centre on Seymour and Helmcken. Staff member was also sweeping the sidewalk around the premises.

This is a yay for Vancouver kudos to ABC led my Ken Sim. There are actually positive signs around, although there is a lot more to accomplish.
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  #2160  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2022, 12:40 AM
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Remove Viewcones.
Why would you build social housing in some of the city's most prime real estate?
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