Heavy Rail, Commuter Rail, & Intercity Transportation

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by chowhou

So somehow you understand that infrastructure that moves freight helps upstream industries and workers, but yet you can't understand how infrastructure that moves labour and consumers helps upstream industries and workers?

I understand both very clearly.

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

And I've been comparing metros. The city population of Victoria is less than 100k against Kitchener's 256k. Still behind.

When I look at the planned RT for Victoria, whether it be the one along Douglas or the old E&N, I look at the municipalities that would have a stop/station. I also look at what other RT connects to it. The Ion does not go into Cambridge and does not have any RT (yet) from Cambridge.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Vancouver had to wait until the 1.5 million mark to get rapid transit; Mississauga and Hamilton, 700k+. If anything, Victoria at 400k would be getting it ahead of schedule.

Ahead of schedule for Canada, maybe.

If Canada had the political will to use tax dollars to build rapid transit in Victoria and Saskatoon and other mid-sized cities AND continue expanding the systems in Vancouver and Toronto and Calgary we'd all be better off. But until that monumental shift occurs you're right, limited transit funds should be allocated where they achieve the greatest returns.

[Migrant_Coconut]

I don't recall ever being against the concept of HSR altogether. If BC has enough money for it and a SkyTrain or two and a highway upgrade all at the same time, by all means... but we won't. Not in the next thirty years at least.

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

When I look at the planned RT for Victoria, whether it be the one along Douglas or the old E&N, I look at the municipalities that would have a stop/station. I also look at what other RT connects to it. The Ion does not go into Cambridge and does not have any RT (yet) from Cambridge.

Victoria + Langford: 138k. Kitchener + Waterloo: 371k. Same difference.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Planes already do that, and faster. HSR's mostly competing with economy class, not business or first.

I'm personally unconvinced that travelling from Amazon HQ in Seattle to the randomly scattered Amazon buildings downtown would be faster by SEA-YVR than by a downtown Seattle - downtown Vancouver HSR.

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I understand both very clearly.

No you don't lmao

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by chowhou

I'm personally unconvinced that travelling from Amazon HQ in Seattle to the randomly scattered Amazon buildings downtown would be faster by SEA-YVR than by a downtown Seattle - downtown Vancouver HSR.

Really depends on how much time the HSR wastes in customs/security; if it's as tedious as air travel, then it's pretty much six of one, half a dozen of another. And if the meeting is one that doubles as a vacation, they're going to the hotel first.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

Ahead of schedule for Canada, maybe.

If Canada had the political will to use tax dollars to build rapid transit in Victoria and Saskatoon and other mid-sized cities AND continue expanding the systems in Vancouver and Toronto and Calgary we'd all be better off. But until that monumental shift occurs you're right, limited transit funds should be allocated where they achieve the greatest returns.

I will now be talking city metros.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_census_metropolitan_areas_and_agglomerations_in_Canada

Victoria is number 16.

1 1 Toronto Ontario
2 2 Montreal Quebec
3 3 Vancouver British Columbia
4 5 Ottawa–Gatineau Ontario/Quebec
5 4 Calgary Alberta
6 6 Edmonton Alberta
7 7 Quebec City Quebec
8 8 Winnipeg Manitoba
9 9 Hamilton Ontario
10 10 Kitchener–Cambridge–Waterloo Ontario
11 11 London Ontario
12 12 Halifax Nova Scotia
13 13 St. Catharines–Niagara Ontario
14 14 Windsor Ontario
15 15 Oshawa Ontario
16 16 Victoria British Columbia
17 17 Saskatoon Saskatchewan
18 18 Regina Saskatchewan
19 19 Sherbrooke Quebec
20 22 Kelowna British Columbia

Top 6 metros have some sort of RT.

[Migrant_Coconut]

So now we just need QC, Winnipeg, Hamilton, London, Halifax, Niagara, Windsor and Oshawa before the feds finally get to Victoria. No problem.

[GenWhy?]

Isn't Metro Vic implementing BRT?

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

So now we just need QC, Winnipeg, Hamilton, London, Halifax, Niagara, Windsor and Oshawa before the feds finally get to Victoria. No problem.

QC has one planned.
So does Hamilton.
London is building a BRT.
So is Winnipeg.
Halifax is as well.

So, that leaves Niagara, Windsor and Oshawa. All 3 are in Ontario and would be subjected to what Metrolinx wants.

[Migrant_Coconut]

If BRT counts, then GenWhy is correct in saying Victoria's about to have some too. Only Hamilton and maybe QC are planning a train.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Really depends on how much time the HSR wastes in customs/security; if it's as tedious as air travel, then it's pretty much six of one, half a dozen of another. And if the meeting is one that doubles as a vacation, they're going to the hotel first.

They're probably not staying at the airport Fairmont.

I know a few people that work at Seattle based tech companies and when they've had to go down to meet up with their teams, they've either taken the bus or Amtrak. Maybe not the norm, but if you could make it such that anyone working downtown could hop on HSR and be in downtown Seattle in a couple hours, that might be huge for the local tech scene.

[GenWhy?]

Absolutely BRT should count as Rapid Transit. When they'll actually get real BRT, I'm not sure, but BC Transit currently building infrastructure and spending money to support it over other rapid transit modes it seems. I think they are half completed the bus dedicated lanes from downtown to Colwood.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Absolutely BRT should count as Rapid Transit. When they'll actually get real BRT, I'm not sure, but BC Transit currently building infrastructure and spending money to support it over other rapid transit modes it seems. I think they are half completed the bus dedicated lanes from downtown to Colwood.

That is why I prefer the term RT. Skytrain is not for all places, but neither is a rubber tire metro, subway, streetcar or LRT. The thing is, if traffic can slow it down, it is not RT.

So, for example, the B Line is not RT.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

That is why I prefer the term RT. Skytrain is not for all places, but neither is a rubber tire metro, subway, streetcar or LRT. The thing is, if traffic can slow it down, it is not RT.

So, for example, the B Line is not RT.

Correct. I'm just speaking in generalities that it looks like Metro Vic wants BRT as they are implementing it in phases already, which is great but I would have loved them to do the Swartz leg first.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Correct. I'm just speaking in generalities that it looks like Metro Vic wants BRT as they are implementing it in phases already, which is great but I would have loved them to do the Swartz leg first.

They need to do the Colewood Crawl section first.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Indeed. And I'm happy that (so far) our problems with building new transit infrastructure have mostly been minor. Edmonton's new Valley Line LRT is the latest example of what can go wrong. They're having to structurally upgrade 30 of the 45 piers on the elevated section because of cracking (before the system has even started up). Quite the engineering design failure, and now three years behind schedule.

Glad our piers are big and chunky and not led by design aesthetic!

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Glad our piers are big and chunky and not led by design aesthetic!

I guess they thought they could get away with it. Different seismic context, of course.

Edmonton earthquakes M1.5 or greater
0 earthquakes in the past 24 hours
0 earthquakes in the past 7 days
0 earthquakes in the past 30 days
0 earthquakes in the past 365 days

Vancouver earthquakes M1.5 or greater
0 earthquakes in the past 24 hours
0 earthquakes in the past 7 days
4 earthquakes in the past 30 days
43 earthquakes in the past 365 days

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Changing City

I guess they thought they could get away with it. Different seismic context, of course.

Winnipeg earthquakes M1.5 or greater
0 earthquakes in the past 24 hours
0 earthquakes in the past 7 days
0 earthquakes in the past 30 days
0 earthquakes in the past 365 days

Vancouver earthquakes M1.5 or greater
0 earthquakes in the past 24 hours
0 earthquakes in the past 7 days
4 earthquakes in the past 30 days
43 earthquakes in the past 365 days

Edmonton, not Winnipeg....

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Edmonton, not Winnipeg....

Doh - checking too many cities! Same data though. And Calgary, and Toronto. Not true for Montreal though.

0 earthquakes in the past 24 hours
0 earthquakes in the past 7 days
1 earthquake in the past 30 days
8 earthquakes in the past 365 days

[casper]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

So now we just need QC, Winnipeg, Hamilton, London, Halifax, Niagara, Windsor and Oshawa before the feds finally get to Victoria. No problem.

That is not how the feds works. They basically allocate funding for public transit to provinces based on a per-capita basis. The province picks the winning project and the feds put part of the money in.