24 Sussex Drive [Prime Minister's residence] | Vacant

[Richard Eade]

The NCC’s description of 24 Sussex:

The house at 24 Sussex Drive is the official residence of Canada’s prime minister.

Part of the house is reserved for the use of the family. The other part is where the prime minister welcomes official guests for public functions. These rooms are decorated and furnished in keeping with their important public function.
< snip >
This residence is closed to the public.

The original name of the house is “Gorffwysfa” which is Welsh for “Place of Peace”.

So, by “public functions”, the NCC actually means “Private functions”, for those specifically invited by the PM. Note that the residence is “closed to the public.”

This building has (somewhat – not-with-standing the NCC shirking its duty to properly maintain the house) served its purpose of providing a more intimate place for dignitaries to gather, at the request of the PM. It has not, and was never intended to, host dinners and provide lodgings for 125.

The NCC is going WAY overboard by wanting to add in a lot of massive facilities that already, properly, exist elsewhere.

This building is, primarily, a RESIDENCE, and it should stay that way. I have no issue with it including a ‘Home Office’, and having facilities to deal with, say, up to 15 guests, but that would be the maximum limit. An exception could be dealing with a specific party or ball, where additional guests could partake in the festivities for a few hours, but would not be expecting a sit-down meal or over-night accommodations.

Even things like ‘Cabinet’ meetings, should not occur at the residence, in my opinion. They should happen, officially, at the proper facilities.

Think of your own homes. Would you really want to duplicate your place of work at your home?

Let’s keep the PM’s official residence a residence that truly is a “Place of Peace”.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Did it? It was never widely used for political functions or meetings. Its glory days were in the 50s and 60s when it seems to have hosted dignitaries, etc. (there is a photo of Dief and JFK standing out front). Trudeau I was a bachelor or single parent for most of his time there and used it as a private home, its importance grew under Mulroney because his wife was a bit of a socialite. Chrétien, Martin and Harper used it mostly as a private residence and Trudeau II never lived there.

I think part of it is that the city built better facilities for events starting from mid-60s. NAC, Pearson Building, National Gallery, Museum of History, Diefenbaker Building, 9 Rideau Gate, Meech Lake, Harrington Lake are all preferred venues for the PM to host things.

Agreed and even if some important decisions had been made there does preserving the building become that important. I guess we aren't as history oriented as many other countries but I don't think the site of the confederation conference for example is a major tourist attraction in Charlottetown.

I guess security would be difficult but maybe a new residence walking distance would be fitting and reduce the carbon footprint. Sell the 24 Sussex land to pay for it.

[rocketphish]

National Capital Commission has spent $767K on assessing 24 Sussex whose future is still unknown
'When Canadian homeowners are considering what to do with their house, they don’t have the luxury of six years and three-quarters of a million dollars to spend to perhaps make a decision'

Ryan Tumilty, Ottawa Citizen
May 19, 2022 • 6 hours ago • 3 minute read



OTTAWA — Getting ready to make a decision on the future of 24 Sussex Drive has cost taxpayers $767,000 without a single decision being made on whether to renovate or tear down the prime minister’s official residence.

Conservative Sen. Don Plett asked the government for details on the planning work and in a written response was told the National Capital Commission has spent the money on engineering reports, heritage assessments and feasibility studies to look at bringing the 12,000-square-foot home up to standards.

In its written response the National Capital Commission, which is responsible for the home that dates to 1868, said it wants a full assessment of the property.

“The NCC recognizes the historic and symbolic importance of the residence of Canada’s Prime Minister and is ensuring that issues related to security, functionality, environmental sustainability, universal accessibility, design excellence and heritage preservation are taken into consideration.”

The home on the Ottawa River has been the official residence of prime ministers since 1950, but it has fallen into disrepair. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau refused to move his family into the home — where he spent much of his own childhood — when he was first elected in 2015. Instead the Trudeaus live in Rideau Cottage on the grounds of the governor general’s mansion.

The building has considerable amounts of lead, mould and asbestos, which would all need to be removed. The electrical system is considered a fire hazard and the plumbing fails regularly. Of the six official residences the NCC manages, 24 Sussex is the only one currently listed in critical condition.

The latest assessment indicates that the pool house on the property needs “a new building envelope,” which would require replacing the walls, windows, doors, roof and skylight, because of rot and mould.

The official residence, which the government purchased in 1949, is also considered too small to serve official functions, but also too large for a family home. Security upgrades have also been suggested over the years to make it safer.

Just last year, an armed man smashed his pickup truck into the gate at Rideau Hall and proceeded to walk toward Trudeau’s residence before being confronted by RCMP.

Not having a prime minister in the residence has not saved on upkeep however; the building has cost roughly $250,000 for basic maintenance as well as heat and power.

Over the past decade the government has spent nearly $3 million on larger projects at the 34-room residence, but most of those stopped when Trudeau came to office.

Plett asked in the Senate Tuesday when the government is actually going to make a call on 24 Sussex.

“When Canadian homeowners are considering what to do with their house, they don’t have the luxury of six years and three-quarters of a million dollars to spend to perhaps make a decision one day,” he said. “When taxpayers are footing the bill, however, and we see this time and again, it’s easy for this government to spend unlimited time and money to develop a renovation plan.”

Plett didn’t get an answer in the Senate chamber.

Current estimates indicate it could cost the NCC more than $36 million to fix all of the building’s deficiencies. The NCC has also studied the option of demolishing the residence and starting anew with a building more specifically designed to serve as an official residence.

The NCC said in a statement the studies it ordered were necessary to make a good decision.

“The completed studies and reports have allowed the NCC to gain a sound understanding of the building condition and the work that would be required going forward to ensure the federal government is able to make a prudent and informed decision,” said an NCC spokesperson.

It did not provide any timeline for when a decision would be made. But the commission would ultimately need government funding for the project, making it the Liberal government’s final decision.

Trudeau has said he doesn’t expect his family will ever live in the home given the timeline for making repairs.

• Email: [email protected] | Twitter: ryantumilty

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/politics/...wcm/9f8e691b-a2be-4f6a-96d7-a6b1ecb9155d

[Marshsparrow]

TEAR IT DOWN ALREADY... Cdn architect design contest that incorporates indigenous, English and French design elements and build it...

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

National Capital Commission has spent $767K on assessing 24 Sussex whose future is still unknown
'When Canadian homeowners are considering what to do with their house, they don’t have the luxury of six years and three-quarters of a million dollars to spend to perhaps make a decision'

Ryan Tumilty, Ottawa Citizen
May 19, 2022 • 6 hours ago • 3 minute read

With that kind of money, the NCC could have bought a modest bungalow for the Prime Minister and called it a day. Heck, six years ago, they could have bought two!

[rocketphish]

What goes into annual upkeep at 24 Sussex? That's a $146,694 question
No one has lived at the official home of our prime ministers since 2015, but there's still a cost to keep the lights on in the crumbling structure.

Tom Spears, Ottawa Citizen
Nov 07, 2022 • 20 hours ago • 3 minute read

For $146,000 you could buy a new Mercedes-Benz EQS, or you could keep the lights on at 24 Sussex Drive for about a year.

The official home of our prime ministers hasn’t had any residents since the Harper family moved out in 2015. It is in “critical” condition, according to the National Capital Commission, and the two best options are to have it rebuilt top to bottom (for $36.6 million) or torn down and replaced ($40 million.).

The long wait for a decision—and the necessary funding to follow through—is also proving to be expensive.

Heat and hydro costs alone for 24 Sussex, for starters, averaged more than $200 per day in the past year. Water is extra.

Documents from an access to information request show it cost $146,694.42 to keep the drafty and crumbling structure operating for just over one year. The numbers cover the period from late August 2021 to September 2022.

Why so expensive? For one thing, the three-storey brick-and-stone home is an energy guzzler — at a time when governments are trying to lead in cutting greenhouse emissions.

Taxpayers paid Hydro Ottawa $59,027 for electricity in the residence (and pool building) for 12 months of this period, or an average of $161 per day. The bills ranged from a monthly low of $2,961 in September 2021 to a high of $7,650 in January 2022.

Don’t blame the central air conditioning — there isn’t any. Individual rooms are cooled with window-mounted units.

Then there’s the Enbridge gas bills, another $14,654 for the same period, or $40 a day. Midwinter monthly gas bills were approximately $2,500.

That brings the total energy costs to more than $73,000. Now add the water and sewer bills, which averaged about $600 every two months.

The documents also show a range of smaller upkeep matters: $4,825 to replace old lights, prompted after a light started emitting sparks and smoke. A top NCC official sent a warning that this could start a major fire.

The pool building needed scheduled maintenance. The winning tendered bid: $5,200.

Meanwhile, the consultants — paid in addition to the NCC staff — were kept busy. They were paid $23,996 to investigate the integrity of the building and another $5,827 for substance abatement. (The building has asbestos.)

NCC officials wouldn’t comment on the new expense figures. Several weeks ago they wrote in an email: “The 2021 Official Residences of Canada: Asset Portfolio Condition Report found that the condition of the six main residences and their 49 secondary buildings continues to deteriorate, due to years of chronic underfunding.”

Part of 24 Sussex is still used as office space by some staff from the Prime Minister’s Office.

Ottawa architect Toon Dreessen blames “years of dithering” for the current state of the structure, and says the current expenses used to keep it upright are akin to “keeping this patient on life support.” There’s $150,000 for utility bills, he says, and yet nothing to make the place more energy efficient.

And it’s not just 24 Sussex. Much of Canada has let its vital infrastructure slide, Dreessen says. “Every bridge, every rec centre and community centre in the country is faced with a massive infrastructure deficit.”

The NCC says the six official residences have a combined need for repairs worth $89 million. Meanwhile, it was able to spend $26 million in capital funding for all of them combined in the three years from 2018 to 2021. And a large part of that sum was a one-time allocation for the overhaul of the Harrington Lake country retreat.

The nearby Rideau Cottage, on the grounds of Rideau Hall, is still the current home of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, with new guard huts and security fencing.

Dreessen, meanwhile, wants to keep the current building at 24 Sussex. If it can still have an official role without being a residence, he says, “preserving and rehabilitating is still worth the investment.”

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...eep-at-24-sussex-thats-a-146694-question

[Marshsparrow]

A national disgrace.

[acottawa]

They should use it for paintball.

[TheBrain]

4,825 to replace old lights, prompted after a light started emitting sparks and smoke. A top NCC official sent a warning that this could start a major fire.

Maybe they should've just left those lights there and the problem would have solved itself?

[J.OT13]

Holly crap! Do they leave all the lights on 24/7 and heat the house to 30 degrees Celsius?

Keep the lights off. Shut off unused breakers and heat it at 15, enough to not freeze the pipes.

I wish they would have taken Holmes' offer years ago to make a renovation show with 24 Sussex. We could have funded the project partially with a TV deal and ads. Just don't air the security related upgrades.

[DarthVader_1961]

Closing it down…

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/24-sussex-closing-safety-reasons-1.6655416

[Richard Eade]

Pardon me while I RANT:

That report concluded that "the overall state of the official residences continues to deteriorate due to years of chronic underfunding," NCC spokesperson Dominique Huras told CBC News at the time.

Chronic underfunding, eh? I read that as “Complete failure by the NCC to request enough funding to properly maintain the property.” This is just another instance of the NCC’s complete FAILURE to do the job that it is supposed to be doing. If it costs more than you are getting to properly do the job, then make a presentation - with justification - to get more money. (And stop wasting money of things that are not core to the NCC's mandate. For instance; why does the NCC think that it is its 'job' to provide free water to everyone who visits Canada Day celebrations - which are run by Heritage Canada, I believe.)

A recent NCC report declared that the residence should be replaced as it is not fit to serve as the home of a major world leader.

So, the NCC’s plan is to completely replace the building – but it first wants to spend MILLIONS OF DOLLARS on the property?

The NCC said in Monday's statement that it would begin planning to remove certain safety hazards — including asbestos and outdated heating and electrical equipment — while the government decides what to do with the property.

The NCC has already decided that the property is not suitable. Why in heck is it spending money to make it less dangerous - before it tears the place down? This has to rank up there with the other 'most ridiculous things done by the NCC'.

It is no wonder that the NCC thinks that it is underfunded. Maybe if it properly used the money that it gets it would be enough to actually do the jobs that it is tasked with.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

Pardon me while I RANT:


Chronic underfunding, eh? I read that as “Complete failure by the NCC to request enough funding to properly maintain the property.” This is just another instance of the NCC’s complete FAILURE to do the job that it is supposed to be doing. If it costs more than you are getting to properly do the job, then make a presentation - with justification - to get more money. (And stop wasting money of things that are not core to the NCC's mandate. For instance; why does the NCC think that it is its 'job' to provide free water to everyone who visits Canada Day celebrations - which are run by Heritage Canada, I believe.)

So, the NCC’s plan is to completely replace the building – but it first wants to spend MILLIONS OF DOLLARS on the property?


The NCC has already decided that the property is not suitable. Why in heck is it spending money to make it less dangerous - before it tears the place down? This has to rank up there with the other 'most ridiculous things done by the NCC'.

It is no wonder that the NCC thinks that it is underfunded. Maybe if it properly used the money that it gets it would be enough to actually do the jobs that it is tasked with.

The NCC does not operate in a vacuum. It knows what it can/cannot put to government.

[Horus]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

So, the NCC’s plan is to completely replace the building – but it first wants to spend MILLIONS OF DOLLARS on the property?


The NCC has already decided that the property is not suitable. Why in heck is it spending money to make it less dangerous - before it tears the place down? This has to rank up there with the other 'most ridiculous things done by the NCC'.

Even if they're going to tear down the building, they still have to properly remove and dispose of the asbestos. That has to be done before they start knocking down walls.

[J.OT13]

Imagine if they would have fixed the place 10 years ago. We could have funded it with the money we wasted heating the place with an inefficient system for the last 10 years.

[Davis137]

Perhaps the money can be found, if they cancelled their Disney+ subscription...?

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

The NCC does not operate in a vacuum. It knows what it can/cannot put to government.

I think the NCC failed to come up with real options. They kept coming up with highball numbers for a renovation and replacement which no politician of either party could accept. There should have been a "family home suitable for an upper middle class family with additional security features" option and a "we will build a showpiece house and relocate functions that are currently done elsewhere" option.

Also, there should have been a "the PM seems happy at Rideau Cottage, let's make that the official residence" option.

[Richard Eade]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

The NCC does not operate in a vacuum. It knows what it can/cannot put to government.

What you are saying is that the NCC is totally inept at presenting a convincing case when it needs additional (or even ongoing, it seems) money to maintain the government assets that it has the responsibility to maintain.

Could it be that the Federal Government believes that it already gives the NCC the amount of money that it thinks is sufficient – but that the NCC fritters a big chunk of it away on other things?

Could it be that the NCC has major issues with managing money? And managing the assets under its charge?

Absolutely, the government needs to be convinced to spend money on specific projects – but if that is what it takes, then one of the NCC’s roles is to provide sufficient justification for the money. But the ‘ask’ needs to be reasonable. Saying that they have a new plan to build a multi-function residence for $40M, after they let the previous one rot into oblivion, does not inspire anyone with confidence that they know what they are doing.

Originally Posted by Horus

Even if they're going to tear down the building, they still have to properly remove and dispose of the asbestos. That has to be done before they start knocking down walls.

You sound like a person who has never had to pay for a major renovation of a property. It is ALWAYS much more expensive to remove the stuff when the building and its elements needs to be preserved. If demolition were being done, the price would include a chunk of money for handling the toxic materials, but it will be a lot less than the cost of removing them carefully.

The NCC has proven over and over again that it is simply not capable of handling the tasks assigned to it. I used to defend it, too. Now I find it hard to find any sense in keeping it.

[rocketphish]

24 Sussex closing for safety, though report suggests some issues are minor
People in the building 'are afforded a similar level of fire safety to similar buildings of this age, construction, and use.'

Tom Spears, Ottawa Citizen
Nov 19, 2022 • 6 hours ago • 3 minute read

24 Sussex Drive recently aced a fire safety inspection. Now it’s being closed — in part because of possible fire risk.

On Thursday, the NCC announced that the building will be closed for the foreseeable future to allow the start of major renovations. No one has lived there since 2015, but it is used as office space by the prime minister’s staff.

“Over the coming weeks, the site will be closed to provide easier access for proper planning of this work, which will include the abatement of designated substances such as asbestos, as well as the removal of obsolete mechanical, heating and electrical systems,” the NCC announced.

It also raised the issue of fire hazards, saying “with continuously aging and worsening materials and systems, more significant actions must be taken to mitigate matters of great concern such as potential fire hazards, water damage and air quality issues.”

Until now, however, fire risk has not been an issue.

In July of 2021, an engineering report even found there is an “enhanced level (of) life safety to occupants of the building.”

That’s because there are two completely separate escape routes from anywhere in the building, so fire is unlikely to trap someone upstairs. As well, there are fire alarms, and the kitchen has a fire suppression system.

There are three stairways in all, two of them reaching the top (third) floor. The report says “this number and distribution of exits is sufficient for a dwelling unit of this size.”

The NCC released the 81-page report through an access to information request.

In general, the engineers conclude, people in the building “are afforded a similar level of fire safety to similar buildings of this age, construction, and use.”

Where the consultants found safety issues, they were minor. A carpet needed to be fastened down to avoid a tripping hazard. They said people should not store items blocking a passageway. They suggested more wall-mounted fire extinguishers.

Everyone agrees the building is in critical condition, with cracking stone walls and foundations, ancient plumbing, poor windows, a dining room too small to entertain, and more. The estimate to fix 24 Sussex from top to bottom is $36.6 million; demolishing and rebuilding would cost $40 million.

There was a brief fire scare last year, when an old light fixture in the pantry started spitting out sparks and smoke. But it and all the others like it have been replaced.

“Yes, there is probably a fire hazard from old wiring but that’s probably true of half the houses in Rockcliffe,” said Ottawa architect Toon Dreessen (who cautions that he hasn’t studied 24 Sussex.)

It’s the same with “probably half of the older unrenovated office buildings in town. If wishes were horses, beggars would ride (and there would be enough government budgets to hire architects and engineers who would have more work renovating and updating buildings when they need it),” he said in an email.

“Reality is that it’s not always possible to do this and we sometimes get to a point where a building isn’t usable” — including the East and West Memorial Buildings and the West Block before renovation.

“Yes, these things need to be fixed. But they were urgent a decade ago. And now they are just more urgent. Heck, they were urgent 30 years ago,” he said.

The root cause, Dreessen said, is decades of “deferred million-dollar annual maintenance projects.”

The NCC said in an email that there are “manifest health and safety concerns for the current employees of the residence, including electrical safety concerns, the presence of designated substances, such as asbestos, which pose air quality risks to the users and employees, as well as considerable pest control issues.”

There’s a risk of damage to a heritage building, the NCC says: “In addition to the fire risks associated with the obsolete electrical systems, there is also a risk of water damage, caused by mechanical system failure. Should these risks materialize, this important national heritage asset could be lost.”

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/24-sussex...gh-report-suggests-some-issues-are-minor

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

24 Sussex closing for safety, though report suggests some issues are minor
People in the building 'are afforded a similar level of fire safety to similar buildings of this age, construction, and use.'

Tom Spears, Ottawa Citizen
Nov 19, 2022 • 6 hours ago • 3 minute read

24 Sussex Drive recently aced a fire safety inspection. Now it’s being closed — in part because of possible fire risk.

On Thursday, the NCC announced that the building will be closed for the foreseeable future to allow the start of major renovations. No one has lived there since 2015, but it is used as office space by the prime minister’s staff.

“Over the coming weeks, the site will be closed to provide easier access for proper planning of this work, which will include the abatement of designated substances such as asbestos, as well as the removal of obsolete mechanical, heating and electrical systems,” the NCC announced.

It also raised the issue of fire hazards, saying “with continuously aging and worsening materials and systems, more significant actions must be taken to mitigate matters of great concern such as potential fire hazards, water damage and air quality issues.”

Until now, however, fire risk has not been an issue.

In July of 2021, an engineering report even found there is an “enhanced level (of) life safety to occupants of the building.”

That’s because there are two completely separate escape routes from anywhere in the building, so fire is unlikely to trap someone upstairs. As well, there are fire alarms, and the kitchen has a fire suppression system.

There are three stairways in all, two of them reaching the top (third) floor. The report says “this number and distribution of exits is sufficient for a dwelling unit of this size.”

The NCC released the 81-page report through an access to information request.

In general, the engineers conclude, people in the building “are afforded a similar level of fire safety to similar buildings of this age, construction, and use.”

Where the consultants found safety issues, they were minor. A carpet needed to be fastened down to avoid a tripping hazard. They said people should not store items blocking a passageway. They suggested more wall-mounted fire extinguishers.

Everyone agrees the building is in critical condition, with cracking stone walls and foundations, ancient plumbing, poor windows, a dining room too small to entertain, and more. The estimate to fix 24 Sussex from top to bottom is $36.6 million; demolishing and rebuilding would cost $40 million.

There was a brief fire scare last year, when an old light fixture in the pantry started spitting out sparks and smoke. But it and all the others like it have been replaced.

“Yes, there is probably a fire hazard from old wiring but that’s probably true of half the houses in Rockcliffe,” said Ottawa architect Toon Dreessen (who cautions that he hasn’t studied 24 Sussex.)

It’s the same with “probably half of the older unrenovated office buildings in town. If wishes were horses, beggars would ride (and there would be enough government budgets to hire architects and engineers who would have more work renovating and updating buildings when they need it),” he said in an email.

“Reality is that it’s not always possible to do this and we sometimes get to a point where a building isn’t usable” — including the East and West Memorial Buildings and the West Block before renovation.

“Yes, these things need to be fixed. But they were urgent a decade ago. And now they are just more urgent. Heck, they were urgent 30 years ago,” he said.

The root cause, Dreessen said, is decades of “deferred million-dollar annual maintenance projects.”

The NCC said in an email that there are “manifest health and safety concerns for the current employees of the residence, including electrical safety concerns, the presence of designated substances, such as asbestos, which pose air quality risks to the users and employees, as well as considerable pest control issues.”

There’s a risk of damage to a heritage building, the NCC says: “In addition to the fire risks associated with the obsolete electrical systems, there is also a risk of water damage, caused by mechanical system failure. Should these risks materialize, this important national heritage asset could be lost.”

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/24-sussex...gh-report-suggests-some-issues-are-minor

This almost feels like bureaucratic jujitsu by the NCC. Kicking PMO out of their office trying to maybe spur some kind of decision.