24 Sussex Drive [Prime Minister's residence] | Vacant

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Maybe the full text explains this, but I wonder how often in the last 30 years the PM has hosted a 125 person event in Ottawa (that wasn’t purely political like a fundraiser).

Very frequently. Actually 125 is a low number for a visiting senior leader.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Very frequently. Actually 125 is a low number for a visiting senior leader.

But the entourage of the senior leader are not all guests. If the Prime Minister hosts a world leader for a dinner it is usually the leaders and a few advisors.

If it is an official state dinner it is hosted by the GG (at Rideau Hall or another venue such as the Museum of History or National Arts Centre).

And leaders prefer more informal settings anyway these days.

https://pm.gc.ca/en/photos/2017/06/16/pr...-gregoire-trudeau-belgian-prime-minister

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Maybe the full text explains this, but I wonder how often in the last 30 years the PM has hosted a 125 person event in Ottawa (that wasn’t purely political like a fundraiser).

^^
As AOttawa said above
Any "State Dinner" like function is hosted by the Governor General in Rideau Hall.

The PM would host dinners with other heads of governments like at a G7 or the like.

[hwy418]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

Okay, I'm being pedantic but the PM is not the Head Of State, they are the Head of the Government. Two different folks.

Perhaps we can ditch the monarchy and the PM can take over Rideau Hall!

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by hwy418

Perhaps we can ditch the monarchy and the PM can take over Rideau Hall!

No way am I pledging allegiance to a POS politician of any stripe.

[passwordisnt123]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

No way am I pledging allegiance to a POS politician of any stripe.

You know that most non-monarchies swear their oaths to their constitution or to the country itself rather than a person, right? Please tell me you're aware of this.

Personally, I find it distasteful to swear allegiance to a family of German hemophiliacs with a large collection of hats and pedophiles among them. But if that floats your boat, you do you.

For more information, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_citizenship, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_office

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by hwy418

Perhaps we can ditch the monarchy and the PM can take over Rideau Hall!

Nah, the Governor General, as Head of State, would still have the palatial digs.

[Richard Eade]

Currently, we have facilities for handling the reception of large delegations – and hosting parties for them. We don’t need to duplicate them. I expect that, if a handful of dignitaries was invited back to the PM’s house for drinks, then it is because the PM wants it to be a more ‘personal’ affair.

Why would we want the PM’s house to become a Government celebration area? Shouldn’t the PM have a safe space for their family that is away from official functions?

This huge expansion of duties for the ‘house’ is ‘wrong-thinking’ on the part of the NCC.

Let a house be a house. There can certainly be an office within it, and some entertaining areas, but they should be on a ‘human’ scale.

This house is where the PM goes home to be with their family and unwind from a hard day at work. Let them have that private, intimate space.

Whom was it who said “There’s no place for the state in the bedrooms of the nation”? Well, maybe that should be altered slightly to “There’s no place for the state in the houses of the nation.”

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by passwordisnt123

You know that most non-monarchies swear their oaths to their constitution or to the country itself rather than a person, right? Please tell me you're aware of this.

Personally, I find it distasteful to swear allegiance to a family of German hemophiliacs with a large collection of hats and pedophiles among them. But if that floats your boat, you do you.

For more information, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_citizenship, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_office

I'm well aware of what other nations pledge allegiance to. They are all symbols be it constitutions, land mass, or a crown. I'm afraid that when we do become a republic of some sort the powers that be will fuck it up spectacularly.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by hwy418

Perhaps we can ditch the monarchy and the PM can take over Rideau Hall!

Once Queen Elizabeth passes away, we'll have an excellent opportunity to move on from the Commonwealth and move the PM to Rideau Hall. While we're at it, we can adopt a better electoral system.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Once Queen Elizabeth passes away, we'll have an excellent opportunity to move on from the Commonwealth and move the PM to Rideau Hall. While we're at it, we can adopt a better electoral system.

Leaving the Commonwealth and deciding the PM should live in Rideau Hall are entirely unrelated decisions.

Whether or not Canada is a monarchy there still needs to be a head of state. Most countries have an official residence for their head of state.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Once Queen Elizabeth passes away, we'll have an excellent opportunity to move on from the Commonwealth and move the PM to Rideau Hall. While we're at it, we can adopt a better electoral system.

Oh yeah easy peasy. Canadian constitutional changes are almost literally impossible. A basically theoretical monarch would need to be changed with something. Even the easiest elected ceremonial president (Ireland model for example) would be chosen by popular vote. This likely means a permanent and often unilingual anglophone. This is likely unacceptable but most of the rest of the country has no interest in some ethnic rotation. Western and Eastern provinces see Canada as a country of 10 equal provinces.

Let's focus on a Prime Ministerial residence and office complex we can be proud of. Modern and carbon neutral. Maybe materials from every province and territory.

[lrt's friend]

I just want to remind everybody that if we ditch the monarchy, that does not mean that the Prime Minister becomes the head of state. Do we really want to eliminate that check and balance of the role of the Governor General (or whatever the title may be post-monarchy) who has the right to dissolve Parliament? If we make the Prime Minister head of state, will we not be risking a potential dictatorship if we elect somone who is power hungry? ie our own version of Putin.

[passwordisnt123]

I can't really think of any former British colony that went down the road of making the PM the head of state. Ireland, India, Pakistan, South Africa, Barbados, Mauritius, Guyana, Fiji, Israel, and the United Arab Emirates all created an office of President rather than make the PM head of state.

The only example I can think of who didn't create a position of president after kicking the British House of Windsor out is Jordan and that's only because they created their own monarchy instead.

Literally nobody worth listening to is talking about making the PM the head of state. The people who are suggesting that's even a possibility are either idiots or are deliberately trying to confuse things.

[rocketphish]

Can 24 Sussex ever again house Canadian prime ministers?

Ottawa Citizen Editorial Board
Apr 23, 2022 • 10 hours ago • 2 minute read

Last August, a failure in the decrepit wiring at 24 Sussex Drive caused electrical arcing, with sparks and smoke detected in a main-floor pantry fixture. Fire could easily have followed. A National Capital Commission report on the incident warned of a “serious risk” of recurrence and a future blaze, “resulting in irreparable damage” to the heritage property.

Bad wiring isn’t the only thing that makes this house unsuitable as the official residence of Canada’s prime minister. There’s asbestos, a plumbing system that fails “on a regular basis,” rickety windows, no central air-conditioning; the list is long. 24 Sussex is a security nightmare too, sandwiched between a well-travelled road and a cliff. The last public estimate said renovations would cost almost $37 million.

It’s also far too small for the kinds of elaborate functions the NCC, guardian of official residences, now proposes. Documents reported on first by the Toronto Star and viewed by the Ottawa Citizen lay out what the feds think a proper prime ministerial home should offer.

It should, for instance, have lots of room to host foreign dignitaries such as heads of state or UN mucky-mucks. It needs a spacious dining area for up to 125 official visitors. Proper offices, meeting rooms and press facilities are de rigueur. Security would expand and upgrade. In other words, the NCC envisages a dual-use facility: three-quarters of the space for prime ministerial/government work; the remainder private space for the prime minister and family.

The NCC hasn’t put a price tag on this vision, described in a “preliminary functional progamming report,” and is agnostic about the location of any new residence. But the current site obviously wouldn’t work. 24 Sussex is just too small for all these expanded state duties.

Although the commission didn’t provide the Citizen a requested list of potential new residence locations, there is only one feasible choice: part of what are now the grounds of Rideau Hall — 36 hectares versus 1.6 hectares at 24 Sussex. When the government gets through the interminable process of deciding, it will pretty much have to place its dream facility on land severed from the Governor General’s sprawling backyard.

Meanwhile, there’s no reason for sentimentality about 24 Sussex. Past prime ministers have lived in buildings as varied as Laurier House, Earnscliffe and the Château Laurier. So get on with approving the fine points of a new residence, reveal the cost and settle the location. Only then can a suitable, respectful future be found for 24 Sussex itself.

https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/editorial-can-24-sussex-ever-again-house-canadian-prime-ministers

[Djeffery]

Why not Rideau Hall itself? Isn't the place huge and already have the spaces for those official duties? Maybe they can add on some space for the PM Residence and perhaps a few other facilities that maybe can't be shared due to scheduling.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I just want to remind everybody that if we ditch the monarchy, that does not mean that the Prime Minister becomes the head of state. Do we really want to eliminate that check and balance of the role of the Governor General (or whatever the title may be post-monarchy) who has the right to dissolve Parliament? If we make the Prime Minister head of state, will we not be risking a potential dictatorship if we elect somone who is power hungry? ie our own version of Putin.

Veering off topic but an interesting topic that isn't discussed enough in Canada IMHO. I know your version is the Politics 101 theory and an actual Monarch with widespread public support certainly could in theory be a check. But, in Canada we have an appointed GG so removal and appointment of a friendly one would be an easy early step on the march to dictatorship. A ceremonial but elected president could probably be a stronger check and balance. As others say I can't think of any fully democratic country with a PM head of state.

All that said and even as someone who is in theory allergic to the idea of monarchy changing it is a risk. Like any radical change when you have a system functioning very well as Canadian democracy is I am not sure we want to risk making things worse and the chance of making it much worse seems to be clearly greater than making it much better.

[Uhuniau]

Back to the topic.... I really hope that whatever happens whenever, that they preserve as much of the history of 24 Sussex as possible. Its inhabitants all seem to hate the place, but like it or lump it, a lot of Canadian political history has happened there... more years worth than the original Centre Block!

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Back to the topic.... I really hope that whatever happens whenever, that they preserve as much of the history of 24 Sussex as possible. Its inhabitants all seem to hate the place, but like it or lump it, a lot of Canadian political history has happened there... more years worth than the original Centre Block!

Did it? It was never widely used for political functions or meetings. Its glory days were in the 50s and 60s when it seems to have hosted dignitaries, etc. (there is a photo of Dief and JFK standing out front). Trudeau I was a bachelor or single parent for most of his time there and used it as a private home, its importance grew under Mulroney because his wife was a bit of a socialite. Chrétien, Martin and Harper used it mostly as a private residence and Trudeau II never lived there.

I think part of it is that the city built better facilities for events starting from mid-60s. NAC, Pearson Building, National Gallery, Museum of History, Diefenbaker Building, 9 Rideau Gate, Meech Lake, Harrington Lake are all preferred venues for the PM to host things.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Did it? It was never widely used for political functions or meetings. Its glory days were in the 50s and 60s when it seems to have hosted dignitaries, etc. (there is a photo of Dief and JFK standing out front). Trudeau I was a bachelor or single parent for most of his time there and used it as a private home, its importance grew under Mulroney because his wife was a bit of a socialite. Chrétien, Martin and Harper used it mostly as a private residence and Trudeau II never lived there.

I think part of it is that the city built better facilities for events starting from mid-60s. NAC, Pearson Building, National Gallery, Museum of History, Diefenbaker Building, 9 Rideau Gate, Meech Lake, Harrington Lake are all preferred venues for the PM to host things.

Harper barely spent any time there, he spent almost the entire year up at Harrington.