PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread X

[SouthCentralPA]

Originally Posted by jaysb

Makes sense, when I lived there from 11-16 NLNA was pushing hard on the run-off mitigation with rain barrels etc.

I wasn't as much concerned with the plants themselves, rather what happens to the local pipes when you drop some pretty dense developments into what was historically row homes...
Anyway, appreciate the answers.

Again, I'm not entirely sure how it works in Philadelphia, but in my area if a new residential development is going in and the sewer pipes are not sized to handle the increase in usage then the developer is required to upsize the sewage pipes so that they are able to handle the increase in sewage. But I feel like we don't usually see new developments in Philadelphia digging up the road for sanitary sewers. So either the existing pipes are large enough, no one is thinking about this and they are actually undersized or the City upgrades the sewer lines as needed as populations increases in different areas.

[SouthCentralPA]

Originally Posted by MyDadBuiltThat

Check out PWD Green City Clean Water https://water.phila.gov/green-city/ for information. PWD was mandated to reduce sewage discharges from the combined system into the rivers during rain events. Got permission to try various green stormwater infrastructure projects to reduce rainwater going into the system rather than terribly disruptive process of separating the systems. Additional benefit is lots of green spaces, trees, new school playgrounds, and other improvements. Other older cities are watching and hoping for success that will let them do the same.

I didn't see your response before typing up something similar a few minutes ago. I will say that many, many other cities and municipalities around the state are also mandated to reduce their CSOs or their sediment/nitrogen/phosphorus into waterways. So many of them have already seen the success in Philadelphia and other cities and have began implementing lots of green infrastructure too. I know that Lancaster, Harrisburg and Pittsburgh are all doing this kind of stuff too and I'm sure there are more cities in PA. And then you have all the municipalities that have PRPs and are doing basin retrofits, stream restorations and other BMPs.

Sorry everyone for talking excessively about stormwater and wastewater!

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by SouthCentralPA

For sure. Philadelphia is one of the leaders in stormwater management and has a lot of innovative projects compared to other places in the state. I don't blame them for not constructing tunnels like DC. You shouldn't have discharges if you can remove the stormwater from the systems and doing that has many benefits besides just preventing CSOs. Curb bumpouts act as traffic calming and allow shorter unprotected road crossings for pedestrians. They also provide vegetation and greenery in neighborhoods and some of the plants can be quite pretty at certain times of the years. They also provide habitats for bugs and pollinators. So I think stormwater management is a better way to decrease CSOs than just creating tunnels to store sewage during rain events.

An example of the curb bumpouts in NE Philly of of Bleigh Ave that were completed this summer.

I think All major roadways in the city should have some of these as it helps with the wash off like you all mentioned, but also can have some beautiful plants for the spring/summer and even can be decorated in the fall and winter.

Another thing that can happen is incorporating this with some Seating,Tables, & Bike Racks to add that nice touch and bring people out.

[SouthCentralPA]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

An example of the curb bumpouts in NE Philly of of Bleigh Ave that were completed this summer.

I think All major roadways in the city should have some of these as it helps with the wash off like you all mentioned, but also can have some beautiful plants for the spring/summer and even can be decorated in the fall and winter.

Another thing that can happen is incorporating this with some Seating,Tables, & Bike Racks to add that nice touch and bring people out.

Yeah that is a great example! And I agree there should be a lot more of these around the city. The biggest complaint for these bumpouts is that they take away some parking spaces for the residents of that area. But when you are mandated to decrease your CSOs, you need to have innovative ways to achieve that and bumpouts are a great way to do that. And like you said, there could even be more opportunities to better engage the community with some other things added to a project.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by SouthCentralPA

Yeah that is a great example! And I agree there should be a lot more of these around the city. The biggest complaint for these bumpouts is that they take away some parking spaces for the residents of that area. But when you are mandated to decrease your CSOs, you need to have innovative ways to achieve that and bumpouts are a great way to do that. And like you said, there could even be more opportunities to better engage the community with some other things added to a project.

Regarding the parking issue, One or two spots isn't bad when you consider most of them block the crosswalk, however I do understand the parking crunch that happens in the evening and when you arrive past a certain time all spots on the block are gone so you take that corner spot and pray nothing happens before you can move your vehicle in the morning.

On the other hand it prevents parking in crosswalks and keeps the corners clear, this is especially important in CC with the amount of foot traffic and engagement with Vehicles.

I think in the Trolley Revolution weren't some of these Watershed bumpouts in the renders?

[SouthCentralPA]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

Regarding the parking issue, One or two spots isn't bad when you consider most of them block the crosswalk, however I do understand the parking crunch that happens in the evening and when you arrive past a certain time all spots on the block are gone so you take that corner spot and pray nothing happens before you can move your vehicle in the morning.

On the other hand it prevents parking in crosswalks and keeps the corners clear, this is especially important in CC with the amount of foot traffic and engagement with Vehicles.

I think in the Trolley Revolution weren't some of these Watershed bumpouts in the renders?

Oh for sure, these bumpouts placed on the corners definitely help sight lines between vehicles and pedestrians and protect them when waiting to cross a road. But some people don't care about things like that and are only concerned with losing parking spots - whether they are legal spots or not.

[jaysb]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

An example of the curb bumpouts in NE Philly of of Bleigh Ave that were completed this summer.

I think All major roadways in the city should have some of these as it helps with the wash off like you all mentioned, but also can have some beautiful plants for the spring/summer and even can be decorated in the fall and winter.

Another thing that can happen is incorporating this with some Seating,Tables, & Bike Racks to add that nice touch and bring people out.

Nice, the only one of these I knew of was outside the NLNA office, looks nice (but constant trash cleaning as it's below grade)
Wasn't sure if that was just a pilot and they gave up on it completely after that, nice to see others around.

[SEFTA]

Originally Posted by bdurk

This may be a hot take but I could totally see a supertall mixed-use building being Philly's next 1,000+ footer. I really think with the recent rise in taller residential towers that Philly is made for a couple more. Just imagine a John Hancock Center-esque skyscraper in Rittenhouse, that would be awesome.

Also side note, I for one enjoy the Billionaire's Row supertalls. Don't love how skinny they are but they really just make the skyline massive. I'm more worried about the cluster of office towers making the skyline ugly. If Tower Fifth, 175 Park, and 270 Park all go up I think they could ruin the skyline (Mainly Tower Fifth, I hate that thing)

I'm rooting for Penn's Landing
Penn's Landing -Durst 10-15-21 by , on Flickr

[iheartphilly]

^
This could be our version of Hudson Yards.

[DeltaNerd]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

This could be our version of Hudson Yards.

Well that's currently happening with 30th street station.
The waterfront though can use more highway capping and pedestrian bridges.
I can't wait to see that parking lot gone

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by DeltaNerd

Well that's currently happening with 30th street station.
The waterfront though can use more highway capping and pedestrian bridges.
I can't wait to see that parking lot gone

But it's not. If you are talking about any development over the rail yard, there's really no movement on that per se. It's too cost prohibitive to build over the rail yard. The super structure to support any new highrises over it would have to exist in the first place.

https://www.som.com/projects/philadelphia-30th-street-station-district-plan/

And if you are talking about Schuykill Yards, none of those new buildings directly front the river.

The Penn's Landing development (https://www.delawareriverwaterfront.com/...enn-s-landing/penn-s-landing-development) is more akin to the Hudson Yard Development in that the cluster of new highrises are adjacent to the river. That's where I was going with that.

[DeltaNerd]

https://www.gray30thstreetstation.com/

There was suppose to be a public meeting about 30th street this fall this was delayed to Early 2023.
Originally construction was suppose to start in 2022 but now has a scheduled start Spring 2023. Wonder if there is some changes to the project.

[TK2001]

I'm sure I've posted this before, but I think a supertall in Center City taller than all of our buildings in the Center City skyline could destroy the balance of the skyline...depending where it is placed. Say a 1,300 foot tower was proposed on the site we all thought was going to be "Comcast 3". I feel like of that was build, the skyline view from the south would be thrown out of balance, as you look just next to the tower as it greatfully dips down to the 625 foot IBX Tower.

This is why I strongly believe a supertall should be conceived in West Philadelphia. We know the area is already in a great surge of business and construction, along with the attention itself being gained. The west Philly skyline basically started in 2004, as the steel structure of Cira was rising into the skyline. 18 years later and there's many towers over 300 feet, AND a 736 foot tall beautiful skyscraper now anchoring the West Philly skyline. A supertall would be perfect to join this cluster as an upwards expansion of West Philadelphia and a westward expansion of the skyline.

For Penn's Landing, it is a good location to put a tower, but most definitely not the greatest setting. While the Old City neighborhoods are a beautiful setting, the historical commission for sure would oppose a fleshed out supertall in this area. One Dock Street was opposed for years before its actual (and thankful) construction. Not to mention the area is not as business focused as CC and WP. Many developments have stumbled along the Delaware River, with even Willard Rouse's master plan not happening and the 1,000 foot tall World Trade Center tower with a globe on top. If a supertall is ever actually proposed near Penn's Landing, I will be excited, I just don't see it happening.

[thoughtcriminal]

Originally Posted by TK2001

I'm sure I've posted this before, but I think a supertall in Center City taller than all of our buildings in the Center City skyline could destroy the balance of the skyline...depending where it is placed. Say a 1,300 foot tower was proposed on the site we all thought was going to be "Comcast 3". I feel like of that was build, the skyline view from the south would be thrown out of balance, as you look just next to the tower as it greatfully dips down to the 625 foot IBX Tower.

I get this sentiment, but remember one thing: no great tall building ever just snuggled into its context to preserve any kind of "balance". It shattered the context, and made future buildings fit in with *it.*
Look at old photos of the Empire State Building, World Trade Center (original and current), sears tower, john hancock buildings (both Chicago and Boston), etc.

[TK2001]

I get that completely, as there isn't skyline preservation. Hell, even One Liberty drastically changed the skyline WHILE they wanted to preserve the skyline. You are right, I just hope it can come in affect in a few years. I absolutely don't think it will, but looking at the placements of some buildings are so awkward. I've constantly observed my 2025 Philly model, and do it almost weekly, my biggest concern is the cluster of towers that will join The Laurel. 5 years from now, if the additional two towers are built, they will greatly block Liberty Place from South Street Bridge. The Laurel already bothers me ONLY from SSB, but there's a good angle where you can get The Laurel sandwich between One and Two LP. I get it's not a big deal to many of us forum posters and definitely to the city, but this iconic view might be changing too quick. I know this sounds like NIMBY activity, but I absolutely do not stand for that. These complaints I've always had never come to "they shouldn't build it" or "they should demolish it", my complaints come from the heart because I care and absolutely love Philadelphia.
And a side conversation, if slender towers were built in the city, I would place them two blocks to the south of Centre Square. I feel that location is good for placement of a tower in the skyline and another way to expend the skyline to the south AND to the east. But, I am no city planner or architect (I wanted to be an architect), just a man with a passion

[Raja]

Originally Posted by TK2001

I get that completely, as there isn't skyline preservation. Hell, even One Liberty drastically changed the skyline WHILE they wanted to preserve the skyline. You are right, I just hope it can come in affect in a few years. I absolutely don't think it will, but looking at the placements of some buildings are so awkward. I've constantly observed my 2025 Philly model, and do it almost weekly, my biggest concern is the cluster of towers that will join The Laurel. 5 years from now, if the additional two towers are built, they will greatly block Liberty Place from South Street Bridge. The Laurel already bothers me ONLY from SSB, but there's a good angle where you can get The Laurel sandwich between One and Two LP. I get it's not a big deal to many of us forum posters and definitely to the city, but this iconic view might be changing too quick. I know this sounds like NIMBY activity, but I absolutely do not stand for that. These complaints I've always had never come to "they shouldn't build it" or "they should demolish it", my complaints come from the heart because I care and absolutely love Philadelphia.
And a side conversation, if slender towers were built in the city, I would place them two blocks to the south of Centre Square. I feel that location is good for placement of a tower in the skyline and another way to expend the skyline to the south AND to the east. But, I am no city planner or architect (I wanted to be an architect), just a man with a passion

SSB will always be an iconic view, even if the Liberties are hidden. What's interesting are those viewpoints that were "meh" before but suddenly become enlivened by the addition of a tower -- like what The Summit did for the view down JFK, what 2 Cooper did for the view down East Market, and what the CHOP tower did for Bainbridge. In the past couple months the Dock Street tower has totally transformed the following views:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9478219,...aNcooVsMiZed1JEo5dwMA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9412424,...Rs55x-ZfLucw8aaL6TeZQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[TK2001]

Philadelphia skyline from South Street Bridge 1988 by Philly SkyGuy, on Flickr
This is nice. I'm not sure if I've posted this one on here, but you can easily find it on Google

[TK2001]

Philadelphia skyline by Philly SkyGuy, on Flickr
One Liberty's lights have been off for a bit now, the video posted on The Laurel forum was from a few weeks ago. My guess is to not get the Curse in the way of the World Series. Go Phils!

[brenster]

I can’t stand that the Comcast lights don’t change. So out of place with the rest of the city vibe. They stick out in a bad way.

[phillyskyline]

Originally Posted by brenster

I can’t stand that the Comcast lights don’t change. So out of place with the rest of the city vibe. They stick out in a bad way.

100% Agreed